Could my horse be a small hunter? Help please!

Here is one I had set my heart on being a small, but sadly not good enough.

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So I have decided to do grand prix on this instead, what do you think ? same colour as Valegro, got flashy white legs and he I could buy him a bit of bling ? Op, this is light hearted and not being rude.

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AdorableAlice said:
Here is one I had set my heart on being a small, but sadly not good enough.

DSCF3319_zpskroku9vv.jpg


DSCF3445_zpsibr4cnbp.jpg


So I have decided to do grand prix on this instead, what do you think ? same colour as Valegro, got flashy white legs and he I could buy him a bit of bling ? Op, this is light hearted and not being rude.

Tedafter2weeks001.jpg
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Haha! They are both very cute but you're wrong about the youngster - you should be aiming him at Badminton - he's the perfect type for it!
 
babyd said:
����. Is he actually yours? Out of interest what class would you aim him at? He's a beaut ��
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Oh yes, he is mine, he has his own thread, started back in 2012 and still going today, I have just updated it this evening - 'my next equine project. It has been, shall we say, quite a journey.

Here he is grown up.
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OP, following on from what will and won't catch the eye in the big qualifiers, some pics of my 15.2hh. Really ponyish (welsh D cross TB). I will take a punt putting her in RIHS and HOYS Working Hunter qualifiers. NOT because she is a true Working Hunter, (much too small), but because I know that IF we can qualify, she will jump the championship tracks. The jumping photo is her over a 1-25m fence, she has also jumped clear in Intermediate event classes, regularly beating olympic and 4* riders. She looks ridiculous against the big horses, but, like her mother, has the jump for the big tracks. So I am happy to fork out and give it a go. I am realistic that she won't get the best ride mark because she is a pony type, and her conformation also won't get marked highly again, because she isn't really a hunter. However, the jumping phase and style mark will count for her. As you can see, I am realistic about her chances.
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cundlegreen said:
OP, following on from what will and won't catch the eye in the big qualifiers, some pics of my 15.2hh. Really ponyish (welsh D cross TB). I will take a punt putting her in RIHS and HOYS Working Hunter qualifiers. NOT because she is a true Working Hunter, (much too small), but because I know that IF we can qualify, she will jump the championship tracks. The jumping photo is her over a 1-25m fence, she has also jumped clear in Intermediate event classes, regularly beating olympic and 4* riders. She looks ridiculous against the big horses, but, like her mother, has the jump for the big tracks. So I am happy to fork out and give it a go. I am realistic that she won't get the best ride mark because she is a pony type, and her conformation also won't get marked highly again, because she isn't really a hunter. However, the jumping phase and style mark will count for her. As you can see, I am realistic about her chances.
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She is stunning! She looks entirely different to Dexter too - probably less ponyish tbh so i do understand where you are coming from.
 
babyd said:
She is stunning! She looks entirely different to Dexter too - probably less ponyish tbh so i do understand where you are coming from.
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Trust me, when you see her working in with the proper event horses, she looks hilarious! She's got a quick little stride too, but she never misses a beat XC, and usually has one of the faster times.
 
cundlegreen said:
Trust me, when you see her working in with the proper event horses, she looks hilarious! She's got a quick little stride too, but she never misses a beat XC, and usually has one of the faster times.
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No-one laughed at Charisma.

Super little mare :)
 
OP, I think you've already made your decision, but if you did want to have a go at one of the County shows then there are others in the Yorkshire area that do have local rider classes, or that have RIHS Amateur classes where you could compete at less expense on a day ticket and not be up against professional show riders. You'll find them on the SHBGB website.

I won't repeat what others have already said, other than to say that to me the horse looks like a 15h whp, and if he measures 15.2 to you, then a show horse producer would be aiming to get him measured at 15h. The small hunters generally appear to be a lot bigger than 15.2, partly because of how they are measured, and partly because of how they are produced for the ring, and partly because of that indefinable thing called presence.

I think another consideration that no-one has mentioned, is that for many (perhaps most) competitors in the GYS hunter classes, this isn't a jolly day out - it's a work day and this is their job. So if a rider who is not fully conversant with what is required - and from the questions asked it's clear that that is the case - happened to get in the way or just do the wrong thing at the wrong moment, then that rider might well get short shrift and it could spoil the whole experience. Not because people are horrible or anything, but simply because it is work, and it's competitive, and there is a lot at stake in terms of reputation, livelihood, delivering on clients' expectations, etc.

There's a lot to be said for just doing the things you want to do if you can afford it, as others have said, BUT and it's a big BUT, I'm not sure how enjoyable that experience would actually be if you felt that other competitors were looking down on you. Some people don't care about this sort of thing; some people do. If you're significantly out-classed then other competitors WILL look down on you; spectators will look down on you; grooms will look down on you. Not one person in that ring is going to say, "Oh just tuck in behind me because I don't care how well I do." Everyone is there to win, and once that gate closes it's war - very polite, very charming, but war just the same.

And someone made the comment that plenty of people take their welshies to the Royal Welsh just for the once in a lifetime experience. Yes, they do. But welsh showing, even at its best, has an element of.... what shall I say... exuberant welsh character about it, whether in-hand or under saddle, and there's always a lot of bluster and snorting and less than perfect manners, and the riders come from all walks of life and the most experienced are used to negotiating their way around chaotic rings, and the least experienced are just hanging in there. Hunter showing, however, is a whole different ball game, a whole different etiquette, a whole different level of professionalism, and it's difficult enough to be accepted even with a top class horse and lifetime's ring experience.
 
Hi Babyd. I had a similar dilemma to you with my mare who was too small for 'normal' hunter classes but still a true hunter.
Sienna did compete with success at small County shows & large agricultural shows. We would usually be pulled in mid rank after the go round and then move to the top 5 after the judges ride.
It is great fun going to a larger show and if you pick your show you often find that there are not many entries compared to a local show, I found that for unaffiliated classes, you get a cheap entry for you and a mate to the big show and a lovely day out.
If you enjoy your showing and get more miles under your belt also do try Search for a Star. What Sienna did very well at is Riding Club horse - as I suspect yours would. here is a picture of her to give you some encouragement & just because:
SiennaHOYS.jpg
 
Irish gal said:
I've been following the thread with interest and I would like to pick up on a point the OP made earlier. About how it's so hard for a horse to convey presence from a photo. I have to disagree with you and I'll tell you why. I hope the pictures come out here but otherwise the links are there so just click to see.

I'm an agent and my job is talent spotting. So I was out looking for some nice horses at a very small show, the first of the year and I spotted this lad. His first show ever, green as grass last year. Couldn't take my eyes of him. He was in the middle of the line-up at the end of the show hunters. But I knew there was something special about him.

He proved me right going on to be Supreme Champion at county and Regional shows and being in the top three at the Dublin horse show. But my point is this, of all the horses this lad - off photos alone was the most sought after on my sales page last year. He simply has it - the presence and the x factor - and these were queries not just from showing people but general riders, eventers - basically everybody. The horse just has it, so I have to say that yes presence can be seen from just a photo! I suppose that's why the modelling industry is so big:)

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Fixed it for you. You need to "share", "get links" and copy the "direct" link, then paste it between [IMG ] and [/img ] but without the spaces (capitalisation doesn't matter either way). He's gorgeous by the way!
 
JennBags said:
Fixed it for you. You need to "share", "get links" and copy the "direct" link, then paste it between [IMG ] and [/img ] but without the spaces (capitalisation doesn't matter either way). He's gorgeous by the way!
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JennBags, thank you so much - you're a star. Spent blimmin' ages trying to do that last night to no avail. Will try it with your directions - not holding my breath though. May have to call in tech savvy youngster!!

Now that's a horse with presence and a whole lot more besides - so glad people can see the photo:)
 
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Ah I did get the right one :) I thought I had and it was a brilliant point made then had a panic about facial markings being different :D

I'm not sure if sfas riding club horse is still going with the change around?
 
Dynamo said:
OP, I think you've already made your decision, but if you did want to have a go at one of the County shows then there are others in the Yorkshire area that do have local rider classes, or that have RIHS Amateur classes where you could compete at less expense on a day ticket and not be up against professional show riders. You'll find them on the SHBGB website.

I won't repeat what others have already said, other than to say that to me the horse looks like a 15h whp, and if he measures 15.2 to you, then a show horse producer would be aiming to get him measured at 15h. The small hunters generally appear to be a lot bigger than 15.2, partly because of how they are measured, and partly because of how they are produced for the ring, and partly because of that indefinable thing called presence.

I think another consideration that no-one has mentioned, is that for many (perhaps most) competitors in the GYS hunter classes, this isn't a jolly day out - it's a work day and this is their job. So if a rider who is not fully conversant with what is required - and from the questions asked it's clear that that is the case - happened to get in the way or just do the wrong thing at the wrong moment, then that rider might well get short shrift and it could spoil the whole experience. Not because people are horrible or anything, but simply because it is work, and it's competitive, and there is a lot at stake in terms of reputation, livelihood, delivering on clients' expectations, etc.

There's a lot to be said for just doing the things you want to do if you can afford it, as others have said, BUT and it's a big BUT, I'm not sure how enjoyable that experience would actually be if you felt that other competitors were looking down on you. Some people don't care about this sort of thing; some people do. If you're significantly out-classed then other competitors WILL look down on you; spectators will look down on you; grooms will look down on you. Not one person in that ring is going to say, "Oh just tuck in behind me because I don't care how well I do." Everyone is there to win, and once that gate closes it's war - very polite, very charming, but war just the same.

And someone made the comment that plenty of people take their welshies to the Royal Welsh just for the once in a lifetime experience. Yes, they do. But welsh showing, even at its best, has an element of.... what shall I say... exuberant welsh character about it, whether in-hand or under saddle, and there's always a lot of bluster and snorting and less than perfect manners, and the riders come from all walks of life and the most experienced are used to negotiating their way around chaotic rings, and the least experienced are just hanging in there. Hunter showing, however, is a whole different ball game, a whole different etiquette, a whole different level of professionalism, and it's difficult enough to be accepted even with a top class horse and lifetime's ring experience.
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This is brilliant. Thank you. I've taken everything in and appreciate what you have all said. Dexter does have presence but more akin to a pony... you're all right!

How would they measure him in at 15hh then? Make him slouch? I'm actually being serious haha. The reason I know he's 15.2 (with front shoes!) is that I've been willing him to grow since he was a yearling and I constantly measure haha. I never thought that one day I'd maybe want him smaller... WH looks a lot more fun (imo) and I hadn't realised that the hunters was so professional - that isn't said in any derogatory way btw!!

And I'm certainly not made of money and I wouldn't want to be laughed out of the ring! I suppose I can be more critical today as we've just had a cracking day out combined training and I love him for what he is 😂😂.

BUT I tell you one thing... if he sees a Shetland, you've never seen presence like it!!

Thanks for going into so much detail. And thank you to the talent spotter too - your horse is gorgeous!
 
siennamum said:
Hi Babyd. I had a similar dilemma to you with my mare who was too small for 'normal' hunter classes but still a true hunter.
Sienna did compete with success at small County shows & large agricultural shows. We would usually be pulled in mid rank after the go round and then move to the top 5 after the judges ride.
It is great fun going to a larger show and if you pick your show you often find that there are not many entries compared to a local show, I found that for unaffiliated classes, you get a cheap entry for you and a mate to the big show and a lovely day out.
If you enjoy your showing and get more miles under your belt also do try Search for a Star. What Sienna did very well at is Riding Club horse - as I suspect yours would. here is a picture of her to give you some encouragement & just because:
SiennaHOYS.jpg
Click to expand...

Stunning. Thank you for the advice - certainly a lot to think about and I will looks into search for a star!
 
They make them 15 hands when they are really 15.2 by dehydration or by putting them in a horse walker for 12 or more hours before they are measured. I've also heard of horses taught to shrink down from the stick by using one with a pin in it.

A friend of mine turned up at the yard of a big dealer once and saw a tired looking horse in the walker. 'Oh, I'm shrinking that one for his life height certificate' said the dealer.
 
Oh, lordy, don't get me started on measuring... Yes, they make him slouch. I'm being serious too.

Shoes off (half an inch) and hooves trimmed back so much that the horse can only just walk (another half an inch); a big exhausting ride the day before (half an inch), and then tied up all night with no water so that the horse is dehydrated (the last half inch), and yes, exactly as you say, he will then slouch. And when they stand on the pad they are allowed to spread the feet slightly - depending on the vet - and the head lowers because the horse is exhausted and wiped out, and there you are... 15h.

ETS cross posted with ycbm. Oh yes, I had forgotten the pin thing.
 
ycbm said:
They make them 15 hands when they are really 15.2 by dehydration or by putting them in a horse walker for 12 or more hours before they are measured. I've also heard of horses taught to shrink down from the stick by using one with a pin in it.

A friend of mine turned up at the yard of a big dealer once and saw a tired looking horse in the walker. 'Oh, I'm shrinking that one for his life height certificate' said the dealer.
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Dynamo said:
Oh, lordy, don't get me started on measuring... Yes, they make him slouch. I'm being serious too.

Shoes off (half an inch) and hooves trimmed back so much that the horse can only just walk (another half an inch); a big exhausting ride the day before (half an inch), and then tied up all night with no water so that the horse is dehydrated (the last half inch), and yes, exactly as you say, he will then slouch. And when they stand on the pad they are allowed to spread the feet slightly - depending on the vet - and the head lowers because the horse is exhausted and wiped out, and there you are... 15h.

ETS cross posted with ycbm. Oh yes, I had forgotten the pin thing.
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Omg this is vile!! I'd be using the pin to make mine stand up tall 😂😂

Interesting info, I knew it was done but never knew how!! That's crazy!! Thanks for the info!

Now... to get entered to that WHP... must invest in a horse walker first 😜
 
Actually there is no need to go to such extremes to get a horse who measure 15.2hh at home with shoes on to measure in at 15hh on a pad without.
Take the shoes off, trim the feet (no need to cripple the horse), clip the wither with surgical clipping blades and get the horse relaxed on the pad (get lots and lots of people to stick a stick on your horse in all sorts of situations
Most will measure at least 2" smaller that way.

Vets will now test for dehydration before measuring and they will also drugs test if they feel the need.
My current lad measures 16.1hh at home in shoes, on a pad without shoes he measures 157.6cms so just shy of 15.2hh, no nasty methods or dehydrating. His feet were done the morning of measureing and whilst very short they were not sore
 
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Of course, not everyone goes to extremes, OP. As Conniegirl says, an official measurement is almost always smaller than any measurement that is done at home. I think it's fair to say that almost every horse in the ring will measure a good inch or two bigger than 15.2 at home, some more than others.

Glad you had a good day doing combined training. That must be fun, and much more rewarding I'd have thought.
 
An awful lot of measuring activity happens early in the year when a horse may have wintered out and is at its leanest once they start conditioning for the shows they may measure bigger. That's why you often see tactical height objections after a big qualifier or before the biggest shows

I think this thread shows what I see every day on Facebook groups (and please don't take this personally OP) that if one horse isn't suitable for a certain class you cant simply shoehorn it in elsewhere once you are past local level. Showing is very underestimated and not seen as a discipline in its own right but the intricacies of it are literally mind blowing, I've followed it closely for many years but never fail to be amazed at the encyclopedic knowledge and attention to detail of the very successful as demonstrated by some on this thread.
 
babyd said:
This is brilliant. Thank you. I've taken everything in and appreciate what you have all said. Dexter does have presence but more akin to a pony... you're all right!

How would they measure him in at 15hh then? Make him slouch? I'm actually being serious haha. The reason I know he's 15.2 (with front shoes!) is that I've been willing him to grow since he was a yearling and I constantly measure haha. I never thought that one day I'd maybe want him smaller... WH looks a lot more fun (imo) and I hadn't realised that the hunters was so professional - that isn't said in any derogatory way btw!!

And I'm certainly not made of money and I wouldn't want to be laughed out of the ring! I suppose I can be more critical today as we've just had a cracking day out combined training and I love him for what he is ����.

BUT I tell you one thing... if he sees a Shetland, you've never seen presence like it!!

Thanks for going into so much detail. And thank you to the talent spotter too - your horse is gorgeous!
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Were you at Port Royal today?! I saw a roan and thought hmm that looks like the pony from the showing thread!
 
Very interesting about the measuring. I have a 12hh+ pony and only just recently learned that's the max height for lead rein. I've not measured him properly as he ducks away from the measuring stick ( might not be a bad thing, he literally squats down away from it lol!). It's nice to know they measure in a little shorter but crazy the lengths people go to!
 
I wonder if I tried the opposite - fed her loads and left her stood in a foot of muck, you know,like growing a giant vegetable, would mine grow a bit !
 
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