Could my horse be a small hunter? Help please!

babyd said:
I suppose it is hard to critique from a couple of pictures, especially when some are of a young horse that has developed since the pictures were taken. Some of the attitudes on here make me want to just go and see and maybe prove a few 'smart' people wrong! Too expensive for something i personally find boring though!
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Those of us who have been showing a long time can judge from photos, particularly of young horses, most of us don't buy them as already up and running mature show horses, we buy them a hairy youngsters who often look rather dubious and gangly, if you have an experienced eye you can see how they will mature and develop.

If you see some of the horses the top producers buy you'd think they were mad. Heck the Humdinger looked like a hairy 3yr old riding club pony when he was discovered, a few years later and he scored 100% conformationaly at HOYS and went supreme.

heck this was my lad a few days after he arrived in the UK as a barely handled 3 yr old straight off an irish hill side.
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conniegirl said:
Those of us who have been showing a long time can judge from photos, particularly of young horses, most of us don't buy them as already up and running mature show horses, we buy them a hairy youngsters who often look rather dubious and gangly, if you have an experienced eye you can see how they will mature and develop.

If you see some of the horses the top producers buy you'd think they were mad. Heck the Humdinger looked like a hairy 3yr old riding club pony when he was discovered, a few years later and he scored 100% conformationaly at HOYS and went supreme.

heck this was my lad a few days after he arrived in the UK as a barely handled 3 yr old straight off an irish hill side.
6045E29A-CDC1-4E02-B097-36B04732731B_zpstbgsg9pw.jpg
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I'm very confident in the conformation of my horse. He has been complimented on this by professionals on multiple occasions - this includes judges, instructors, vets, physios etc. I was only asking about the hunter class because I don't know what they specifically look for.

I too bought my horse as a scruffy yearling.

You may have a trained eye but you just cannot judge what you think you can based on the pictures i've posted. In hindsight I should have taken some specifically for this forum.
 
babyd said:
I'm very confident in the conformation of my horse. He has been complimented on this by professionals on multiple occasions - this includes judges, instructors, vets, physios etc. I was only asking about the hunter class because I don't know what they specifically look for.

I too bought my horse as a scruffy yearling.

You may have a trained eye but you just cannot judge what you think you can based on the pictures i've posted. In hindsight I should have taken some specifically for this forum.
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And you've had several professionals and panel judges (myself being one of them) on here tell you that whilst he is a nice horse his conformation is less than ideal for the hunter classes, we've even said exactly where we feel his conformation falls down and suggested other routes for him.

TBH im not surprised judges have said he is nice if you are this confrontational in person. I've had to deal with far too many stroppy competitors at shows and now when asked for critique, what I think of the horse or why I placed the horse down the line by someone I sense is blind to thier horses faults I will just say something along the lines of "he's nice but I prefered the others" or "he is nice but the others are just that bit better".
 
conniegirl said:
And you've had several professionals and panel judges (myself being one of them) on here tell you that whilst he is a nice horse his conformation is less than ideal for the hunter classes, we've even said exactly where we feel his conformation falls down and suggested other routes for him.

TBH im not surprised judges have said he is nice if you are this confrontational in person. I've had to deal with far too many stroppy competitors at shows and now when asked for critique, what I think of the horse or why I placed the horse down the line by someone I sense is blind to thier horses faults I will just say something along the lines of "he's nice but I prefered the others" or "he is nice but the others are just that bit better".
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You're unbelievably confrontational and incredibly rude. I haven't once been confrontational on here and you will see from my previous responses that I have taken on advice and thanked people for it. Quite frankly, the way your answers are worded are horrific - all you have done is compare my horse to yours (which you've done such a great job with and shines like a conker) and faulted mine.

You are now suggesting that my horse has only had nice comments because of the way I handle myself when I'm out. Again, what a disgusting thing to say?! So you're basically saying that my horse is rubbish and only receives compliments to keep me quiet?! Horrific. You're entirely incorrect...once again, and have no right to comment on things like that.

You've made quite a few awful remarks on here that I have ignored but quite frankly, I'm not interested in your opinion anymore so please refrain from commenting again.

I've encountered some lovely people on here and had some great critique and advice, all of which i have taken on board and I have already stated that i will not be entering GYS this year. I'm sure those same people are cringing at your responses because the showing world already has a bad name and you are just adding to that misconception.
 
To be honest I think you are over reacting. conniegirl has done nothing but to give you advice and examples which you have taken the wrong way. Your horse is nice but not anywhere near the level needed to show and place in a HOYS qualifier ( which is what you came on here to ask) enjoy your lovely horse doing what you are obviously successful at doing.
 
The problem is when you are asking for the opinions of professionals then you are going to get their honest response. It's what they are good at, after all, and it wouldn't be in anyone's interest to sugar coat it ;)
When you have a horse that you love and cherish then hearing that they are less than perfect can be hard to take :) but that's what you were asking for, OP - try to take it on the chin and move on. You know what he's good at, you now know that it's probably best not to set yourself up for a disappointment, and you can carry on enjoying your horse while playing to his strengths.

I had a bit of CC from some of the posters on this thread recently and I'm grateful for their experience - *I* know that my horse is a megastar because I ride her every day and she's done amazing stuff. It's helpful to be told about her faults in relation to the show ring, because I'm a bit blind to them! I needed to be prepared for that. I don't think anyone has been rude, FWIW, but I understand how it can sting when someone points out that the apple of your eye isn't perfectly put together... I've always felt that handsome is as handsome does so learning about showing is requiring a change of mindset!
 
milliepops said:
The problem is when you are asking for the opinions of professionals then you are going to get their honest response. It's what they are good at, after all, and it wouldn't be in anyone's interest to sugar coat it ;)
When you have a horse that you love and cherish then hearing that they are less than perfect can be hard to take :) but that's what you were asking for, OP - try to take it on the chin and move on. You know what he's good at, you now know that it's probably best not to set yourself up for a disappointment, and you can carry on enjoying your horse while playing to his strengths.

I had a bit of CC from some of the posters on this thread recently and I'm grateful for their experience - *I* know that my horse is a megastar because I ride her every day and she's done amazing stuff. It's helpful to be told about her faults in relation to the show ring, because I'm a bit blind to them! I needed to be prepared for that. I don't think anyone has been rude, FWIW, but I understand how it can sting when someone points out that the apple of your eye isn't perfectly put together... I've always felt that handsome is as handsome does so learning about showing is requiring a change of mindset!
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I do understand what you're saying but I have taken the critique on the chin and I have moved on... I've thanked people and listened to their advice so much so much so that I am not going to enter - not a lot more i can do than that!

I'm more than happy for people to give me feedback on my horse but some have been rude. Suggesting that he's only received nice comments because of my attitude is pretty rude in my opinion. And i never asked for opinions on whether he could cope in the GYS environment, that was just a nice addition from a few people and unrelated to my original question.

I asked for the same reason as you did and im 90% happy with the response haha. Thanks for yours and good luck this season :)
 
OP
Your horse is perfect for you, does what you ask, does a bit of everything and you obviously adore him.
Personally, in my view (and it is amateurish compared to some of the more experienced show producers on here!) he doesn't have enough quality for a show hunter. I've done a lot of showing, from WHP to show hunters at county so I know what they want and what type they need to be. I show my own at LW. When I first saw the pictures I thought he was a pony, he seems more pony type than horse - not a criticism, just what my initial view was. He doesn't really have the conformation to stand up against the others who would be in your class; at local level he will be fine but at county would be out of depth and tbh not worth the entry.
If you imagine him as bay, he still doesn't have the body of a hunter, and his head isn't as well set on or hunter appearance. This won't affect his day job!
It depends on what you prefer in a horse - he isn't my type of horse, but he is yours. He is a great all-rounder, but not a county show hunter. sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but tbh I think you would be better off doing local or agricultural shows as you would have more fun and a higher chance of a placing.

I know you say his conformation has been complimented on, but to me he doesn't have great conformation. He doesn't need to be perfect for what you are doing with him, but he would need to be much better confo wise for showing :)
 
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milliepops said:
The problem is when you are asking for the opinions of professionals then you are going to get their honest response. It's what they are good at, after all, and it wouldn't be in anyone's interest to sugar coat it ;)
When you have a horse that you love and cherish then hearing that they are less than perfect can be hard to take :) but that's what you were asking for, OP - try to take it on the chin and move on. You know what he's good at, you now know that it's probably best not to set yourself up for a disappointment, and you can carry on enjoying your horse while playing to his strengths.

I had a bit of CC from some of the posters on this thread recently and I'm grateful for their experience - *I* know that my horse is a megastar because I ride her every day and she's done amazing stuff. It's helpful to be told about her faults in relation to the show ring, because I'm a bit blind to them! I needed to be prepared for that. I don't think anyone has been rude, FWIW, but I understand how it can sting when someone points out that the apple of your eye isn't perfectly put together... I've always felt that handsome is as handsome does so learning about showing is requiring a change of mindset!
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Completely agree. I realise it's hard on a forum to gauge someone's level of knowledge, and particularly if they're saying things you don't entirely agree with. But you did post asking for info and you've had good info on here, inc from experienced show people. I haven't read anything rude or out of order on here, reading this objectively. If you know what's not so good, that will help you present him in the best light and choose the right classes for him.

And you also know what he's great at, and he sounds like a cracking horse who who've had lots of fun with. The fact that he may not be totally suited to one particular thing doesn't detract from his value to you.
 
Bernster said:
Completely agree. I realise it's hard on a forum to gauge someone's level of knowledge, and particularly if they're saying things you don't entirely agree with. But you did post asking for info and you've had good info on here, inc from experienced show people. I haven't read anything rude or out of order on here, reading this objectively. If you know what's not so good, that will help you present him in the best light and choose the right classes for him.

And you also know what he's great at, and he sounds like a cracking horse who who've had lots of fun with. The fact that he may not be totally suited to one particular thing doesn't detract from his value to you.
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you can't have read the whole thing if you havent read anything rude! There has been a couple of nasty comments but i'm passed it and will 100% be focussing on eventing/SJ.

Thank you! He is lovely and very talented. Good luck with your Wobbleberry :)
 
Bernster said:
And you also know what he's great at, and he sounds like a cracking horse who who've had lots of fun with. The fact that he may not be totally suited to one particular thing doesn't detract from his value to you.
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The wisest words and the very best advice on this thread and the entire forum.
 
only_me said:
OP
Your horse is perfect for you, does what you ask, does a bit of everything and you obviously adore him.
Personally, in my view (and it is amateurish compared to some of the more experienced show producers on here!) he doesn't have enough quality for a show hunter. I've done a lot of showing, from WHP to show hunters at county so I know what they want and what type they need to be. I show my own at LW. When I first saw the pictures I thought he was a pony, he seems more pony type than horse - not a criticism, just what my initial view was. He doesn't really have the conformation to stand up against the others who would be in your class; at local level he will be fine but at county would be out of depth and tbh not worth the entry.
If you imagine him as bay, he still doesn't have the body of a hunter, and his head isn't as well set on or hunter appearance. This won't affect his day job!
It depends on what you prefer in a horse - he isn't my type of horse, but he is yours. He is a great all-rounder, but not a county show hunter. sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but tbh I think you would be better off doing local or agricultural shows as you would have more fun and a higher chance of a placing.

I know you say his conformation has been complimented on, but to me he doesn't have great conformation. He doesn't need to be perfect for what you are doing with him, but he would need to be much better confo wise for showing :)
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Your answer is what i was looking for, thank you. You're very right, he is quite ponyish.

I will have to politely disagree on your conformation comment though. The fact that he's had this confirmed by vets, physios, instructors and judges leads me to think that i would need to get proper confirmation pictures and post them on here for people to properly critique. I'm genuinely not just being a proud owner here (as it may appear!!) but I have confidence in the people around me who make these comments without me even asking them!

Thanks
 
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babyd said:
I will have to politely disagree on your conformation comment though. The fact that he's had this confirmed by vets, physios, instructors and judges leads me to think that i would need to get proper confirmation pictures and post them on here for people to properly critique. I'm genuinely not just being a proud owner here (as it may appear!!) but I have confidence in the people around me who make these comments without me even asking them!

Thanks
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If you are happy with his conformation then you don't need to post on here for others to comment. You will not like the people who comment on his negative aspects, and probably disagree with them, so there won't be much point in posting if all you want is positives.
The people who will comment on conformation and type are similar people who posted on this thread, so will probably get the same comments or none at all as you will just disagree with them. I'd be very happy with some of the posters on 'this thread read doing confo on my horse and I would trust their eye. Does it help if I say I'm a physio, instruct and teach stable management inc. confo? I don't profess to know everything and never will, but I learn all the time and different views create a picture! People don't have to have qualifications to look at a horses conformation, I'd rather use a proper horseman like some on this post to judge my horses conformation :)
 
The OP took the criticism very well! Thanked people for their opinions and took them on board. I think she started taking offence when people got more personal, and called her confrontational, which I honestly don't think she has been!

OP I think you have made a decision? This forum is a weird place! Don't worry about it and carry on enjoying your horse.
 
[deleted user] said:
The OP took the criticism very well! Thanked people for their opinions and took them on board. I think she started taking offence when people got more personal, and called her confrontational, which I honestly don't think she has been!

OP I think you have made a decision? This forum is a weird place! Don't worry about it and carry on enjoying your horse.
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Thank you so much... i was starting to think i was going crazy!! :)
 
only_me said:
If you are happy with his conformation then you don't need to post on here for others to comment. You will not like the people who comment on his negative aspects, and probably disagree with them, so there won't be much point in posting if all you want is positives.
The people who will comment on conformation and type are similar people who posted on this thread, so will probably get the same comments or none at all as you will just disagree with them. I'd be very happy with some of the posters on 'this thread read doing confo on my horse and I would trust their eye. Does it help if I say I'm a physio, instruct and teach stable management inc. confo? I don't profess to know everything and never will, but I learn all the time and different views create a picture! People don't have to have qualifications to look at a horses conformation, I'd rather use a proper horseman like some on this post to judge my horses conformation :)
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I didn't ask about his conformation though... that's the whole point! I asked for his suitability to a hunter class - granted conformation will make up a large proportion of this but to say that he has bad conformation is just incorrect. Maybe it is just not what the judges will be looking for in this class which is exaclty why i asked the question.

Please don't take this wrong, i promise I'm not being intentionally confrontational, i'm just stating that i'll take my conformation critique from people that have seen him in the flesh.

Thanks for the hunter advice though. All has been taken on board.
 
To the OP

a view on life i try to remember is when i look back when i am older do i want to be one of those people who sit there and moans about wishing they had done something or they could have done something if they tried or it should have been me etc.

if i try to do something and i didn't achieve it as least i tried...................went for the job i thought was to high level for me....................went to try to qualify for regional or young event horse..............tried to get the qualification................move from novice to elementary etc.

what you want to achieve or try for is entirely up to you...............but have fun.
 
babyd said:
you can't have read the whole thing if you havent read anything rude! There has been a couple of nasty comments but i'm passed it and will 100% be focussing on eventing/SJ.

Thank you! He is lovely and very talented. Good luck with your Wobbleberry :)
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I've read the whole thread and to me, the only person who has come across as rude is yourself. A couple of people pointed out his conformation faults, but you were asking about his suitability for county level showing and as something like 60% of the marks are attributable to conformation, then conformation is going to be what is commented upon as none of the other posters have seen or ridden your horse which is where the other 40% of the marks come from.
 
hollyandivy123 said:
To the OP

a view on life i try to remember is when i look back when i am older do i want to be one of those people who sit there and moans about wishing they had done something or they could have done something if they tried or it should have been me etc.

if i try to do something and i didn't achieve it as least i tried...................went for the job i thought was to high level for me....................went to try to qualify for regional or young event horse..............tried to get the qualification................move from novice to elementary etc.

what you want to achieve or try for is entirely up to you...............but have fun.
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Thank you!
 
babyd said:
I didn't ask about his conformation though... that's the whole point! I asked for his suitability to a hunter class - granted conformation will make up a large proportion of this but to say that he has bad conformation is just incorrect.
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Well actually you did. You asked if your horse could be a small hunter for the show ring. Which he could at lower levels but not at the level of the GYS. No your horse doesn't have bad conformation at all but he doesn't have spectacular conformation either which is what is required at HOYS level.

He is more than good enough for what you want/need him to do so go and enjoy him. Have fun with him! That's what owning horses is all about isn't it?!
 
JennBags said:
I've read the whole thread and to me, the only person who has come across as rude is yourself. A couple of people pointed out his conformation faults, but you were asking about his suitability for county level showing and as something like 60% of the marks are attributable to conformation, then conformation is going to be what is commented upon as none of the other posters have seen or ridden your horse which is where the other 40% of the marks come from.
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This whole thread is getting out of hand. I know I haven't been rude - i have been goaded and refrained from writing ugly remarks. How you can say that others haven't been rude baffles me, especially with the comment about my horse only receiving nice comments to stop me talking... It must be that you prolific posters all stick up for each other.

Enjoy your group trolling guys, i'm done.
 
babyd said:
This whole thread is getting out of hand. I know I haven't been rude - i have been goaded and refrained from writing ugly remarks. How you can say that others haven't been rude baffles me, especially with the comment about my horse only receiving nice comments to stop me talking... It must be that you prolific posters all stick up for each other.

Enjoy your group trolling guys, i'm done.
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I really don't think anything is out of hand here, it started out as a really informative thread with lots of useful contributions and tbh OP you have come across as rather defensive when anyone gave you any feedback that wasn't completely positive. That's what I meant about taking it on the chin - thanks for the info, good to understand how the judging is likely to work, doesn't change how you feel about your horse.

As for being goaded... now I don't know conniegirl from adam but I think she's been rather restrained only pointing out that you didn't appear to take the feedback very well, whereas you have called her rude, horrific, awful, accused her of saying disgusting things, or that your horse is rubbish - I haven't seen any of that, in fact she has complimented him but offered her opinion of how he would fare at a high profile show. Who is getting out of hand here?

If you read her posts without the emotion that you are clearly feeling, you'd see that she is comparing her horse in a similar light to yours - as a nice horse who does well at his level, but who would be out of his depth at the show you mentioned right at the start of the thread.

Trolling group? No, we all come to use the forum to share and gain knowledge and information, we can all learn from each others threads so no one wants to descend to name calling :)
 
Well I am mostly an observer of things on here and I think that it was rude and unnecessary to suggest that the OP only got positive comments about her horse because she was confrontational - she didn't come across like that at all, in fact made a real effort to not bite back at provocative comments.
 
Can always rely on millipops to bring some reasoning to the thread, if i had a like button i would be liking her post above.
 
milliepops said:
I really don't think anything is out of hand here, it started out as a really informative thread with lots of useful contributions and tbh OP you have come across as rather defensive when anyone gave you any feedback that wasn't completely positive. That's what I meant about taking it on the chin - thanks for the info, good to understand how the judging is likely to work, doesn't change how you feel about your horse.

As for being goaded... now I don't know conniegirl from adam but I think she's been rather restrained only pointing out that you didn't appear to take the feedback very well, whereas you have called her rude, horrific, awful, accused her of saying disgusting things, or that your horse is rubbish - I haven't seen any of that, in fact she has complimented him but offered her opinion of how he would fare at a high profile show. Who is getting out of hand here?

If you read her posts without the emotion that you are clearly feeling, you'd see that she is comparing her horse in a similar light to yours - as a nice horse who does well at his level, but who would be out of his depth at the show you mentioned right at the start of the thread.

Trolling group? No, we all come to use the forum to share and gain knowledge and information, we can all learn from each others threads so no one wants to descend to name calling :)
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Thankyou! Actually after reading one of her posts I typed out a rather angry reply, said what I was really thinking (and I can guarantee the op would have had real reason to call me rude then) . Then I sat on it for a while and deleted it before posting it.

Next time I know my answer needs to be "yes of course it will win HOYS" and then let her get on with it, but then invariably we would end up with the standard "showing is fixed" "the judge is blind" or "the judge was bent" thread that happens when people can't remove the rose tinted glasses
 
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