Could you condition score this horse for me please? The RSPCA...

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Polos Mum said:
Sorry but if I had an oldie that looked like that despite careful worming, teeth, vet investigation of bloods and huge amounts of appropriate feed, I would have to seriously consider his quality of life and for who's benefit the horse was being kept alive.
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Does being thin automatically give you a poor quality of life? For me it would have to be much more than that... demenour, ability to get around happily, interest in things, no apparent pain etc.

I do agree about the RSPCA comments though as I said above.
 
Hmm, and its not even been a hard winter either :(

Our oldie does have muscle loss, and you can pretty much always see/feel his ribs (well, in his summer coat, winter coat is v floooofy) but he is a TB with incredibly well sprung ribs, and he would need to be obese for you to not see them - completely different to this horse, but just saying that ribs are always a tell :) He's 29 this year, and still as beady eyed as ever :)
 
Have the rspca not seen pics of emaciated children with huge stomachs? As in at deaths door?

I give up all hope!
 
Polos Mum said:
Sorry but if I had an oldie that looked like that despite careful worming, teeth, vet investigation of bloods and huge amounts of appropriate feed, I would have to seriously consider his quality of life and for who's benefit the horse was being kept alive.

Uncomfortable rugging to hide the sight would sit uncomfortably with me.
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it did with me (the rugging) but he wasn't my horse and the girl loved him and he was quite happy with a good quality of life ,he wasn't showing any signs of pain or discomfort but he looked terrible , he was thinner than the above horse
but who am i or anyone else to tell her to pts when the horse was happy in himself
 
amandap said:
Does being thin automatically give you a poor quality of life? For me it would have to be much more than that... demenour, ability to get around happily, interest in things, no apparent pain etc.

I do agree about the RSPCA comments though as I said above.
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This. Being thin in itself is not a terrible thing (esp if older) some people cannot hold weight - my old pony we struggled to keep weight on, but up until his last day he was the same old pony he always was - still able to canter, roll, eat etc :)
 
Polos Mum said:
Sorry but if I had an oldie that looked like that despite careful worming, teeth, vet investigation of bloods and huge amounts of appropriate feed, I would have to seriously consider his quality of life and for who's benefit the horse was being kept alive.

Uncomfortable rugging to hide the sight would sit uncomfortably with me.
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This!

That horse isn't just a bit thin, with easily counted ribs, it's emaciated. I cannot imagine that it has a good quality of life, it must be constantly hungry, to say nothing of the fact it it must know that it is too weak to escape predators - it doesn't know there are no wolves in the vicinity.
 
I know of a shettie that is was thin, she is over 30 and has no teeth to speak of
but last winter was receiving buckets of chaff, and soaked feed as couldnt eat hay.
She seemed happy enough, dont know if she is still around though
 
I actually think that when horses are as thin as the one above it can be called 'painfully thin' with good reason.

My grandfather wasted away with cancer, he was skeletal when he died and could never get comfortable as he was just too bony, no matter how many special mattresses he had, I suspect a thin horse can be just as uncomfortable. He also developed pressure sores on his heels as they were so bony.

A horse which is so thin is also probably anaemic, which can make them feel pretty rotten and their immune system will also be compromised; they will also probably be unable to keep warm; so while it is awful to see obese horses, it is certainly no better to see them emaciated like this and I don't believe a horse can be truly happy and comfortable in this state.
 
As I said I would seriously consider quality of life, a bit on the thin side a 30 is find, but this picture looks to me IMHO a lot worse than just a bit thin.

I stuggle to imagine a horse carrying that little muscle being able to move around comfortably, roll and get up freely etc. BUT I've not owned one that thin so if experienced people believe they can have a good quality of life with no muscle over their spine I will stand corrected.
 
Without knowing the full story I don't think anyone can pass judgement. I.e could it be old, but under careful veterinary care etc? But yes from pic it looks thin, ask to speak to the officer who visited, check the right horse was seen, and if so is it under care of a vet, if not under vets care then either forward call to the head quarters or try whw.
 
Completely stunned at those that find this acceptable under ANY circumstances.

This horse is either ill, unable to eat properly, or being starved. None of those are acceptable.

He/she will be weak, with a low immune system, and will desperately feel the cold.

This should be classed as neglect.
 
Do some think that all very thin horses should be pts regardless then? What about those recovering from a serious illness etc?
 
It would help if the op could give more details. Like how old is the horse, is it being cared for and fed etc?

If it's ill, is is it getting the attention of a vet?

And did the op speak to the RSPCA themselves and know for sure what they said?
 
amandap said:
Do some think that all very thin horses should be pts regardless then? What about those recovering from a serious illness etc?
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Absolutely not what I said, I said I'd have to seriously consider quality of life.
If there were exceptional circumstances and a plan to improve condition then obviously not.
 
Caledonia said:
Completely stunned at those that find this acceptable under ANY circumstances.

This horse is either ill, unable to eat properly, or being starved. None of those are acceptable.

He/she will be weak, with a low immune system, and will desperately feel the cold.

This should be classed as neglect.
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what if its recovering from a colic op ?
what if its recently had strangles ?
what if its recovering from another serious condition ?
what if its a rescue case that hasn't had its teeth done but has been recently sorted out ?
what if its a older horse on his way out and the owner is struggling to come to terms with pts ?

there could be any number of reasons why the horse looks like that , people shouldn't just jump to conclusions , and just because you (as in some people not directed at you personally ) think the horse would be better of pts it is not your horse so not your call

although i am not saying that is the case with this individual as non of us know as it is just a photo and this horse could very well be being neglected but there is just not enough info , although i too don't think much of the rspca it mustn't just be assumed that they are ALL idiots as i have met one or two that are actually quite useful
 
I still don't understand why the OP won't tell us more or ask questions. :confused: I had a peek at her activity a short while ago and she was online reading the thread.

A photo and so little information could be misleading.
 
amandap said:
Do some think that all very thin horses should be pts regardless then? What about those recovering from a serious illness etc?
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No, providing the horse can recover and gain a reasonable quality of life then there would be no reason to pts; what needs to happen in this case is that the cause is investigated and the owner given support if needed or the horse removing if it is neglect and the situation doesn't improve.
 
Polos Mum said:
Absolutely not what I said, I said I'd have to seriously consider quality of life.
If there were exceptional circumstances and a plan to improve condition then obviously not.
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I wasn't meaning your post in particular, just a question. :)

So many are making judgements of the owner based on one photo with no history of the horse or detail of care in place.
 
FionaM12 said:
I still don't understand why the OP won't tell us more or ask questions. :confused: I had a peek at her activity a short while ago and she was online reading the thread.

A photo and so little information could be misleading.
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tbh it sounds like a post to have a pop at the rspca because its "cool" atm
i'm sorry op if that is not the case but could you post some more info as if it is a case of neglect and the rspca are being useless the forum could be a great place to push the rspca into doing something about it as has been done in the past
but you must post all the info you have as people would be foolish to start banging on about a picture of a poor horse with no other info ? :confused:
 
angelish said:
tbh it sounds like a post to have a pop at the rspca because its "cool" atm
i'm sorry op if that is not the case but could you post some more info as if it is a case of neglect and the rspca are being useless the forum could be a great place to push the rspca into doing something about it as has been done in the past
but you must post all the info you have as people would be foolish to start banging on about a picture of a poor horse with no other info ? :confused:
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That's rather what I wondered too. :rolleyes:

We don't even know if the OP is sure that's what the RSPCA said. Things like this are gossip and hearsay unless proper information is given.
 
Polos Mum said:
Sorry but if I had an oldie that looked like that despite careful worming, teeth, vet investigation of bloods and huge amounts of appropriate feed, I would have to seriously consider his quality of life and for who's benefit the horse was being kept alive.

Uncomfortable rugging to hide the sight would sit uncomfortably with me.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
amandap said:
Do some think that all very thin horses should be pts regardless then? What about those recovering from a serious illness etc?
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I think you would be able to show extensive vets bills in that case ( I know I could with Stiggy).
In cases like this, if there is nothing showing so much as a vets visit, there is a problem....a BIG one at that!
 
Patterdale said:
Agree angelish.
Possible bandwagon jumping here.....
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If OP had come back in and answered questioned, I wouldn't agree with you. However, he/she stayed online and read thread for some time but didn't answer reasonable questions/requests for more info which rather looks like someone adding fuel to the RSPCA flames. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry guys, have been out for the evening.

This horse has been in this particular field since the beginning of the summer, wearing the same rug tied on with baling twine. People were concerned about the horse being rugged in summer but didn't meddle and remove the rug then.A friend reported this horse to the RSPCA two weeks ago as it was looking in poor condition with no grass in the field. The RSPCA were not interested.

She then removed the horses rug to see what the horse's condition was underneath, and was shocked as this is what she found. She took the above photo and emailed it across to the RSPCA who then came out to see the horse. (She put the rug back on the horse)

The RSPCA contacted her this afternoon to say that they had visited the horse today but that "we are not that worried it has a belly on it and has just lost it's back muscle because it is old".

I haven't read the above replies in detail, but to those suggesting that this is a dig at the RSPCA, I 100% AM having a pop at them by posting this thread.

I think I actually might post a link to this thread on their facebook page to try and force them into action.

I know with Carrot and Spud it was the overwhelming amount of people aware that caused action in the end (I am a long standing user, have been here since 2005/2006 but have lost my password to my older account). And as we have seen by the TV program last night, the RSPCA love to get involved when there is press surrounding a case, and posting this thread has created a much greater awareness, so maybe they'll be keener to get involved.

(As we all know that they're probably cash strapped after some pointless prosecutions recently, and have been on the receiving end of bad press from an ex-employee about percentages of rescues euthanised)

I will update when there is progress.
 
I'm seriously shocked at how closed minded some people can be.

OP a few questions:

1: How old is the horse?
2: How long has the owner had the horse? What condition was it in when they got it if recently?
3: Has it had any recent illnesses or severe injury etc?
4: Is it under any vet or treatment for the above?
5: What advice has the owner been given by the vet? Are they following that advice?
6: Why only post an 'above' photo of this horse? Where are the photos from the side and back? You cannot make any assessment with the one photo you have posted - as yes, quite frankly it could be a severe drop in topline condition and sunken back on an extremely old horse which is coming to the end of it's days.
7: What EXACT conversation took place between the inspector and the owner? Were you there? Did you hear first hand?

If you can come back and tell us the EXACT answer to all of those, without any hearsay nonsense, or opinion of you or Joe Bloggs down the road thrown in, then you may have a point to make.
 
angelish said:
what if its recovering from a colic op ?
what if its recently had strangles ?
what if its recovering from another serious condition ?
what if its a rescue case that hasn't had its teeth done but has been recently sorted out ?
what if its a older horse on his way out and the owner is struggling to come to terms with pts ?

there could be any number of reasons why the horse looks like that , people shouldn't just jump to conclusions , and just because you (as in some people not directed at you personally ) think the horse would be better of pts it is not your horse so not your call

although i am not saying that is the case with this individual as non of us know as it is just a photo and this horse could very well be being neglected but there is just not enough info , although i too don't think much of the rspca it mustn't just be assumed that they are ALL idiots as i have met one or two that are actually quite useful
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Do read what I wrote before you quote me - I said - "This horse is either ill, unable to eat properly, or being starved. None of those are acceptable. "

Horses do NOT get that thin for no reason. At no point did I say it should be PTS, however, I did say it was neglect and I see no reason why that's wrong?
 
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