Council have just been round - Stable tax

[Xmasha]

Just a warning to all you lovely people who have the horses at home.

Our local council sent a letter last week saying they had the right to come onto our property and inspect our property. To asses for non domestic rates on our stables.

Our stables are 11 metres from our back door, and basically touch the garage. the arena was put in the garden opposite.

Apparently this is not within the curtilage and we are liable for these rates, back dated to 2015.

The tick list they have to determine rateable value is extensive, and ranges from WC/staff room/muck heap/lunge ring/walker gallops/ laundry etc etc.They took photos /measurements of my tack room / feed room

They even checked the fields to see if we where using them as jump paddocks.

I'm going to get advice on this, I'm not happy. the buildings where there when we bought the farm, all we have done is add the internal stables. It just feels like a money making scam.

Any advice lovely HHO ?

 

[popsdosh]

Just a warning to all you lovely people who have the horses at home.

Our local council sent a letter last week saying they had the right to come onto our property and inspect our property. To asses for non domestic rates on our stables.

Our stables are 11 metres from our back door, and basically touch the garage. the arena was put in the garden opposite.

Apparently this is not within the curtilage and we are liable for these rates, back dated to 2015.

The tick list they have to determine rateable value is extensive, and ranges from WC/staff room/muck heap/lunge ring/walker gallops/ laundry etc etc.They took photos /measurements of my tack room / feed room

They even checked the fields to see if we where using them as jump paddocks.

I'm going to get advice on this, I'm not happy. the buildings where there when we bought the farm, all we have done is add the internal stables. It just feels like a money making scam.

Any advice lovely HHO ?

I think they have just caught up with you ! nothing you have said suggest they are in the wrong! I guess you have upset somebody who has reported you maybe? if they deem them not to be in your curtilage potentially you have a planning issue as well. Did you apply for change of use when you moved in as you would need to to put internals in existing agric buildings. The reason they were looking for evidence of schooling is because that would then become rateable.
Just a word of warning rates and planning are seperate depts however they talk to each other so you may get another letter.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

The councils have had their budgets cut like everywhere else. Now they're looking to crack down on things they previously overlooked, to help make up the shortfall in funds. If you find out where the curtilage of your house is, you might have the option to put stables within that area if it's suitable, returning the other building to it's original state to avoid some of the tax costs. I'd find out whether it's worth doing first though, in case the amount you save isn't worth building new stables for.

 

[Xmasha]

I think they have just caught up with you ! nothing you have said suggest they are in the wrong! I guess you have upset somebody who has reported you maybe? if they deem them not to be in your curtilage potentially you have a planning issue as well. Did you apply for change of use when you moved in as you would need to to put internals in existing agric buildings. The reason they were looking for evidence of schooling is because that would then become rateable.
Just a word of warning rates and planning are seperate depts however they talk to each other so you may get another letter.

All planning done properly, have approval for everything. They 'found' us, as we have recently put another application in for a hay barn, council came round to see if it was up so they could charge us more rates. It not up yet, then we get this.

If we removed the internal stables, we wouldn't have to pay anything. Its bonkers, especially as they are so close to the house

 

[Xmasha]

The councils have had their budgets cut like everywhere else. Now they're looking to crack down on things they previously overlooked, to help make up the shortfall in funds. If you find out where the curtilage of your house is, you might have the option to put stables within that area if it's suitable, returning the other building to it's original state to avoid some of the tax costs. I'd find out whether it's worth doing first though, in case the amount you save isn't worth building new stables for.

I did ask, if I have to pay these rates could I run a business to help pay for it. So this will be another call to the planners.

 

[DD]

can you remove the internal stables?

 

[cobgoblin]

can you remove the internal stables?

This^^^

Remove the stables and put horses loose in the barn.
Are they trying to charge for the arena?

 

[popsdosh]

I would just cool off a bit as im guessing your bill wont be that large and if business would certainly be below the threshold to pay anything. How many stables are there ?
Non domestic rates are Business rates so you will qualify for small business rate relief which means you pay nothing if your rateable value is below £12000 under the new system. So rather than get wound up dont do anything until you actually get your rateable value through . I did a calculation a few weeks ago and most yards under 30 boxes would have nothing to pay. It is all worked out on nationally agreed tables for equestrian properties.

 

[Xmasha]

can you remove the internal stables?

I can yes. I will see how much they want first.

I'm just shocked at all the questions, and the fact they took photos of inside the tack room / feed room. Feels invasive

 

[Xmasha]

This^^^

Remove the stables and put horses loose in the barn.
Are they trying to charge for the arena?

I imagine they will be. They had a check list to work out the value, so included everything ,included my electric shower even asked about a solarium.

I would just cool off a bit as im guessing your bill wont be that large and if business would certainly be below the threshold to pay anything. How many stables are there ?

They put us down as 4 - 12 x 12, and 2 foaling boxes.

I do need to calm down you are spot on, I use to pay rates on my other yard, but that was 2 miles up the road, I just expected this to be exempt as its so close to the house. A bit miffed

 

[Goldenstar]

You need to appeal you will need a rates expert to help you .
I would ask a local land agent they will know some one .
Or google equine rates specialist that will probably bring specialists up .
You don't need to accept their opinion that your stables are outside the curtiage get some proper advice .

 

[popsdosh]

You need to appeal you will need a rates expert to help you .
I would ask a local land agent they will know some one .
Or google equine rates specialist that will probably bring specialists up .
You don't need to accept their opinion that your stables are outside the curtiage get some proper advice .

Whats the point in spending money as with with what has been described they wont have to pay anyhow and it wont be overturned as the stables are in an agricultural building that would have always been outside the curtilage of a dwelling house

 

[cobgoblin]

It would be interesting to know what they are defining as curtilage. Historical maps ..even OS maps may help to prove where the curtilage limits lie. 11m is very close to the house.

 

[popsdosh]

I can yes. I will see how much they want first.

I'm just shocked at all the questions, and the fact they took photos of inside the tack room / feed room. Feels invasive

They are only doing their job for other tax payers !

 

[popsdosh]

It would be interesting to know what they are defining as curtilage. Historical maps ..even OS maps may help to prove where the curtilage limits lie. 11m is very close to the house.

We have a farm building that nearly adjoins the house it is not within the house curtilage.

 

[Xmasha]

It would be interesting to know what they are defining as curtilage. Historical maps ..even OS maps may help to prove where the curtilage limits lie. 11m is very close to the house.

ive just had a chat with the legal chap at BHS

The stables, all though only 11m away are in a former cow shed, this has an agri classification. So by that he reckons will be outside the curtilage, the arena, however was built opposite on part of the garden, so may be worth digging a bit more.

I feel a bit of a dunce, as had just assumed as the building was so close we would be ok. Should have looked into it more.

 

[meleeka]

I'm not sure on the rules regarding rates. Do they apply only to land attached to the house?

 

[Xmasha]

They are only doing their job for other tax payers !

taking photos of my tack room is in no ones interest, especially as I hadn't cleared up after a mammoth tack cleaning weekend.

 

[popsdosh]

I'm not sure on the rules regarding rates. Do they apply only to land attached to the house?

We are talking business rates or AKA non domestic rates.

 

[Xmasha]

I'm not sure on the rules regarding rates. Do they apply only to land attached to the house?

they where only interested in the buildings etc, they didn't want to know how much acreage we had, only wanted to check we didn't have a gallops / xc field installed

 

[popsdosh]

taking photos of my tack room is in no ones interest, especially as I hadn't cleared up after a mammoth tack cleaning weekend.

I know but they usually just take them as a reminder to show the use at the time as they are valued differently to stables . Then if things get messy they have the evidence,its nothing sinister although to you it may feel like it.

 

[popsdosh]

they where only interested in the buildings etc, they didn't want to know how much acreage we had, only wanted to check we didn't have a gallops / xc field installed

Thats because the land is not rateable, only valued if it is used for anything other than grazing

 

[popsdosh]

When they send your first bill it should have details on how to claim the small business rate relief with it.

 

[Xmasha]

The valuations officer is going to ring me tomorrow with the verdict, so at least I don't have long to wait.

 

[DD]

Asha do please keep us informed, this is a very worrying development.

 

[Goldenstar]

They are only doing their job for other tax payers !

What rot .
Buisness rates should only be levied against income earning buisnesses .
It's not rates it's an envy tax .

 

[cobgoblin]

They changed it from business rates to non-domestic so they could collect more money!

 

[Xmasha]

What rot .
Buisness rates should only be levied against income earning buisnesses .
It's not rates it's an envy tax .

It's certainly bizarre. If I took my internal stables out of this barn, and built some new ones less than a 1m to the left of he arena , which would look awful I would be in the middle of my current rather small garden, and then be exempt. How does that work ?

I will post a photo of it to show you what I mean , be gentle we are still going through renovations !
The valuations officer agreed

 

[pennyturner]

I share your outrage Asha. There's something just not British about these goons interfering in your private enjoyment of your own home.

I think you should start a (very badly operated) business, ensuring that this and most of your other equine expenses create trading loss to offset against your other earned income. Who knows, you might even end up in front

 

[Xmasha]

Just so you can see how close it is to my house

If we out a new block against the wooden fence, and put some sheep in the argi building, that would be ok.