Council have just been round - Stable tax

[Xmasha]

Asha do please keep us informed, this is a very worrying development.

I will let you know tomorrow.

I share your outrage Asha. There's something just not British about these goons interfering in your private enjoyment of your own home.

I think you should start a (very badly operated) business, ensuring that this and most of your other equine expenses create trading loss to offset against your other earned income. Who knows, you might even end up in front

I'm going to set up a badly run DIY yard, and offer no turnout. Think that might just do it !

 

[Tiddlypom]

Eep, closely following.

Think we are in the same local authority as the OP.

 

[Equi]

My house was a large equine business and we had to prove that we were no longer one. They did a few inspections and the fact I had one old
Mini bobbling about proved we were not making any sort of money from horses lol

This was the water board by the way, not rates.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

[Aperchristmas]

Also closely following - I think many will be caught out by this!

 

[popsdosh]

What rot .
Buisness rates should only be levied against income earning buisnesses .
It's not rates it's an envy tax .

Its not business rates anymore its had a change of name because of the misunderstandings. I have said many times why find a way round them(especially if it is going to cost money) when you wont need to pay them full stop ! im sorry but the small business exemption which this will qualify for was made permanent in the last budget. They are not singling out just people with horses .

 

[sywell]

I have a letter from Brandon Lewis when he was the Minister say your curtilage is the boundary of your garden

 

[DabDab]

Its not business rates anymore its had a change of name because of the misunderstandings. I have said many times why find a way round them(especially if it is going to cost money) when you wont need to pay them full stop ! im sorry but the small business exemption which this will qualify for was made permanent in the last budget. They are not singling out just people with horses .

Well they kind of are - if they're saying no stables in the barn but sheep in there would be fine...

 

[Goldenstar]

Its not business rates anymore its had a change of name because of the misunderstandings. I have said many times why find a way round them(especially if it is going to cost money) when you wont need to pay them full stop ! im sorry but the small business exemption which this will qualify for was made permanent in the last budget. They are not singling out just people with horses .

So who else are they singling out !
People with boats in sheds perhaps ?

 

[Pedantic]

What rot .
Buisness rates should only be levied against income earning buisnesses .
It's not rates it's an envy tax .

Yep

 

[Fools Motto]

I have a letter from Brandon Lewis when he was the Minister say your curtilage is the boundary of your garden

If this is true, take down your garden fence so the stables become your garden?

 

[tda]

if you can look at your original deeds, it should clearly see what is your curtilage (usually your garden) if its within that area then I think they will be hard pressed to charge you rates,
if your barns are actually in the field next door to your garden, regardless of how close, then possibly the council might have a case

 

[Goldenstar]

And if they cold call on you can refuse them admittance and arrange for a date in the future when you have taken advice or have representation present .
They can only take photos with your permission I would not give it I would not want pictures of the contents of my tack room lying around a council office .

 

[honetpot]

This could be me. I have a disused agricultural barn that I have Lodden stables in, its about 24ft from the house. When we bought it there was no garden fence so now we have sheep fencing to keep the dogs in but the barns on the other side of it now.
When we bought this place I was worried about rates and was told there was non to pay as they were agricultural, and we have never had to pay them.
If they want the money we will try and get permitted development on the lot and pull a few down, there are a lot of outbuildings.

 

[Goldenstar]

This could be me. I have a disused agricultural barn that I have Lodden stables in, its about 24ft from the house. When we bought it there was no garden fence so now we have sheep fencing to keep the dogs in but the barns on the other side of it now.
When we bought this place I was worried about rates and was told there was non to pay as they were agricultural, and we have never had to pay them.
If they want the money we will try and get permitted development on the lot and pull a few down, there are a lot of outbuildings.

Take advice .
There are rules to give relief for disused buildings or stick some sheep hurdles and some poohy straw in them .

 

[cobgoblin]

OP can your horses be seen from the road?...I was just wondering how they knew to pick on you.

 

[Xmasha]

OP can your horses be seen from the road?...I was just wondering how they knew to pick on you.

We put a planning application in for a hay barn. One day a local officer knocked on my door and wanted to see if we had put it up . We hadn't, but he noticed the stables and arena ( we have planning for everything. But, the officer who came today had plenty of appointments in the local area to inspect properties. So perhaps they are going through the planning applications . Also in the farmers guardian there is a piece on business rates. Apparently now they have the decision on brexit out of the way they are clamping down on it

 

[Xmasha]

If this is true, take down your garden fence so the stables become your garden?

The fence onto my garden is actually the arena fence. The arena was part of the garden. The barns where there before. When we moved in they where rat infested and run down. 1 old cattle shed and 1 milking parlour. The milking parlour was horrendous, and was made of asbestos, we got repair and renew for that. All the neighbours have been delighted with what we have done as they where an eyesore.

So, if we had left them as is, and just put up some cheap wooden stables at the end of the garden we wouldn't have this issue

 

[Xmasha]

This could be me. I have a disused agricultural barn that I have Lodden stables in, its about 24ft from the house. When we bought it there was no garden fence so now we have sheep fencing to keep the dogs in but the barns on the other side of it now.
When we bought this place I was worried about rates and was told there was non to pay as they were agricultural, and we have never had to pay them.
If they want the money we will try and get permitted development on the lot and pull a few down, there are a lot of outbuildings.

That's what we where told. But the minute you put horses in them, the classification changes and they become equestrian as opposed to agri.

 

[Xmasha]

And if they cold call on you can refuse them admittance and arrange for a date in the future when you have taken advice or have representation present .
They can only take photos with your permission I would not give it I would not want pictures of the contents of my tack room lying around a council office .

I stopped her taking some angles as it showed all my tack. The letter telling us they where coming also lays out the fact they have the right to force entry, all very heavy handed and unpleasant

 

[Xmasha]

if you can look at your original deeds, it should clearly see what is your curtilage (usually your garden) if its within that area then I think they will be hard pressed to charge you rates,
if your barns are actually in the field next door to your garden, regardless of how close, then possibly the council might have a case

I will do this on appeal depending on what the bill is. Thanks

 

[cobgoblin]

I stopped her taking some angles as it showed all my tack. The letter telling us they where coming also lays out the fact they have the right to force entry, all very heavy handed and unpleasant

I think I would check about the forced entry....I suspect they can only use that legally if you have actually refused to make an appointment.

 

[Goldenstar]

I stopped her taking some angles as it showed all my tack. The letter telling us they where coming also lays out the fact they have the right to force entry, all very heavy handed and unpleasant

They do not have the right to enter it was removed from them some time ago I had a look on the government website .
It's quite clear they can't enter without permission and they can't take photos without permission however you do have to agree to them entering at an agreed time .
They can't enter without the householder giving permission so if say the groom is there they can say no I haven't the right to let you do that and they must leave .

 

[Goldenstar]

It's the rating manual Volume 3 section 6 point 4 , point 15 deals with photographs .

 

[popsdosh]

I will do this on appeal depending on what the bill is. Thanks

I promise you there wont be one once you claim the small business relief . I think this has been handled badly but what they told you about forced entry is correct for non domestic property but I agree heavy handed . I cant really see why some are advocating being so obstructive.
Did they explain how they work out your rateable Value. They dont just pluck a figure from mid air I have the rating tables somewhere . Off the top of my head each stable will be between £350-400 Tack store rooms £20m2 outdoor School £1.50 m2 you can do your own maths but if the total is below 12,000 there is nothing to pay.

 

[cobgoblin]

Do you not have to have a small business to claim the relief? I thought these were private horses.

 

[popsdosh]

Check others local to you.

www.tax.service.gov.uk/view-my-valuation/search

Put in advanced search choose your billing authority then put in special code 236 it should bring up equestrian facilities close to you.

 

[popsdosh]

Do you not have to have a small business to claim the relief? I thought these were private horses.

It should make no difference as the rating system is the same one ie non domestic.

 

[Micky]

It's not really been stated whether this is a livery yard or a private my own horses yard and house....if it's a livery yard, then you will pay business rates ( or whatever name they are going by now) and claim back....it is a business the same as a shop on your high st... and you must log/apply for change of use from agri to equestrian ...

 

[Cahill]

If this is true, take down your garden fence so the stables become your garden?

i do not think it is as simple as that? you have to get pp for change of use to garden or every one would extend their gardens and claim permitted rights on it.

 

[Xmasha]

It's not really been stated whether this is a livery yard or a private my own horses yard and house....if it's a livery yard, then you will pay business rates ( or whatever name they are going by now) and claim back....it is a business the same as a shop on your high st... and you must log/apply for change of use from agri to equestrian ...

Its not a livery, our private home.