Council have just been round - Stable tax

[Goldenstar]

I promise you there wont be one once you claim the small business relief . I think this has been handled badly but what they told you about forced entry is correct for non domestic property but I agree heavy handed . I cant really see why some are advocating being so obstructive.
Did they explain how they work out your rateable Value. They dont just pluck a figure from mid air I have the rating tables somewhere . Off the top of my head each stable will be between £350-400 Tack store rooms £20m2 outdoor School £1.50 m2 you can do your own maths but if the total is below 12,000 there is nothing to pay.

There's nothing to pay until some government removes the small buisiness relief then it could be very expensive .
OP view is her property is domestic and therefore she can refuse entry .

 

[popsdosh]

There's nothing to pay until some government removes the small buisiness relief then it could be very expensive .
OP view is her property is domestic and therefore she can refuse entry .

The valuation office is obviously taking a different view as its outside the curtilage( which it is). I suspect the letter was a standard one warning of what may happen if entry is refused . I assume on this occasion they did not turn up with a police snatch squad.. All they do if you do refuse entry is they will assess what they think is there send you a valuation well in excess and then leave you to argue it down which will involve them being allowed access so why not play ball in the first place and not Pee them off.

As far as im aware the major change last year regarding business rates was to set the small business rate relief in stone as it had been variable up to then. Im guessing but I doubt the valuation will be more than 4.5k in which case comfortably exempt.

 

[popsdosh]

There's nothing to pay until some government removes the small buisiness relief then it could be very expensive .
OP view is her property is domestic and therefore she can refuse entry .

Can I just suggest that maybe this is the best option for the OP because if the house banding was altered because of the facilities which it easily could they would definitely be paying a lot more.

 

[Xmasha]

Check others local to you.

www.tax.service.gov.uk/view-my-valuation/search

Put in advanced search choose your billing authority then put in special code 236 it should bring up equestrian facilities close to you.

Thanks for that, its a real eye opener. Looks as though an awful lot of equestrian centres are in for a rate rise this year. They have published current ( 2016 valuations) and new for 2017, there is a heck of a jump up for some. If you take Somerford as an example going from £47k up to £68k. Id be very interested to know how they come to those decisions. Given that the major improvements where done before the London Olympics

There are no yards listed in my neighbourhood, however in my area there are all the local livery yards/equestrian centres. I cant see how I fit in with them.

 

[Xmasha]

The valuation office is obviously taking a different view as its outside the curtilage( which it is). I suspect the letter was a standard one warning of what may happen if entry is refused . I assume on this occasion they did not turn up with a police snatch squad.. All they do if you do refuse entry is they will assess what they think is there send you a valuation well in excess and then leave you to argue it down which will involve them being allowed access so why not play ball in the first place and not Pee them off.

As far as im aware the major change last year regarding business rates was to set the small business rate relief in stone as it had been variable up to then. Im guessing but I doubt the valuation will be more than 4.5k in which case comfortably exempt.

I hope you are right, should find out soon

 

[popsdosh]

Thanks for that, its a real eye opener. Looks as though an awful lot of equestrian centres are in for a rate rise this year. They have published current ( 2016 valuations) and new for 2017, there is a heck of a jump up for some. If you take Somerford as an example going from £47k up to £68k. Id be very interested to know how they come to those decisions. Given that the major improvements where done before the London Olympics

There are no yards listed in my neighbourhood, however in my area there are all the local livery yards/equestrian centres. I cant see how I fit in with them.

There has not been a revaluation since 2010( before olympics) so Somerford will only just be aware of how it will hit them . The new 2017 figures are from the 2015 revaluation which only takes effect from april.
The local livery yards etc will give you how the local valuation office values facilities so an overall idea of where you may be.

 

[Xmasha]

There has not been a revaluation since 2010( before olympics) so Somerford will only just be aware of how it will hit them . The new 2017 figures are from the 2015 revaluation which only takes effect from april.
The local livery yards etc will give you how the local valuation office values facilities so an overall idea of where you may be.

Ive just checked a friend of mines livery yard, back in 2011 it was given a value of £6.4k, current is £8.6k, 2017 to be £14k. They have made some improvements, but the loose boxes have stayed the same. The loose box element has gone from £4k in 2011 to £5k to 2017 £9,375. A jump from £200/sqm to £375/sqm !!

My concern now, is that I may get small business relief for ever, but with the way they are rapidly revaluing the looseboxes , in a few years I may well have to pay.

 

[popsdosh]

Ive just checked a friend of mines livery yard, back in 2011 it was given a value of £6.4k, current is £8.6k, 2017 to be £14k. They have made some improvements, but the loose boxes have stayed the same. The loose box element has gone from £4k in 2011 to £5k to 2017 £9,375. A jump from £200/sqm to £375/sqm !!

My concern now, is that I may get small business relief for ever, but with the way they are rapidly revaluing the looseboxes , in a few years I may well have to pay.

Just to put your mind slightly at ease the box figure is per box not per m2 .I know thats not easily understood from just seeing it . The figures are related to what they feel would be a market rent for the facilities and to be fair most boxes you would expect to rent for well in excess of £375/annum. When you see the total the actual rates you pay are approx half that figure as the current poundage is around 49p However anything under 12000 you should be able to claim relief. It was definitley business rates they were assessing and not a domestic revaluation?


I bet you have been looking for the ones that are not paying ,it can be an eye opener

 

[RunToEarth]

Most LA planning departments have no idea what a curtilage is - it's open to interpretation to a degree. I would read some of the pieces Martin Goodall has done about this as they are fairly relevant to you:

http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/curtilage-confusion.html

 

[horselady]

I stopped her taking some angles as it showed all my tack. The letter telling us they where coming also lays out the fact they have the right to force entry, all very heavy handed and unpleasant

If someone did this to me it would feel like a huge invasion of privacy. Your tack room has your property in it and you own it. Not sure that I would like someone to be taking pictures showing my tack.

 

[popsdosh]

Most LA planning departments have no idea what a curtilage is - it's open to interpretation to a degree. I would read some of the pieces Martin Goodall has done about this as they are fairly relevant to you:

http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/curtilage-confusion.html

Yes indeed the way of assessing it(if undetermined) in the valution office manual is really a work of art so open to interpretation.
However I think in your proffessional capacity you would agree that stables within what was a cowshed are unlikely to be considered within the house curtilage

 

[Xmasha]

Just to put your mind slightly at ease the box figure is per box not per m2 .I know thats not easily understood from just seeing it . The figures are related to what they feel would be a market rent for the facilities and to be fair most boxes you would expect to rent for well in excess of £375/annum. When you see the total the actual rates you pay are approx half that figure as the current poundage is around 49p However anything under 12000 you should be able to claim relief. It was definitley business rates they were assessing and not a domestic revaluation?


I bet you have been looking for the ones that are not paying ,it can be an eye opener

Definitely business rates, as they sent a photocopy of a leaflet about it, and yes a real eye opener. No mention of the yard I owned previously that had to pay, which I thought was strange, just actual real businesses

 

[popsdosh]

If someone did this to me it would feel like a huge invasion of privacy. Your tack room has your property in it and you own it. Not sure that I would like someone to be taking pictures showing my tack.

The problem is the Valuation office is an agency of HMRC who have powers in excess of what the Police have.

 

[Xmasha]

The problem is the Valuation office is an agency of HMRC who have powers in excess of what the Police have.

Come on fess up, do you work for them ?

 

[popsdosh]

Come on fess up, do you work for them ?

God no just had to deal with them.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

A yard I left last may never paid rates as it was valued at £2300 so it came under the £12000 cap and claimed back... I've just looked today and it's still the same... so when the new YO insinuated the livery needed to go up cos the rates were going up..was she telling porkies? Most of the liveries have left now , and there are only 3 left there from 12

 

[Xmasha]

So, an update. The valuation is £5k, so under the threshold, for now anyway !

 

[cobgoblin]

So, an update. The valuation is £5k, so under the threshold, for now anyway !

Do you agree with that? It seems quite high unless you have a lot of boxes....I presume they haven't included the arena that's in your garden.

 

[popsdosh]

So, an update. The valuation is £5k, so under the threshold, for now anyway !

Does that include the new barn?

 

[Xmasha]

Do you agree with that? It seems quite high unless you have a lot of boxes....I presume they haven't included the arena that's in your garden.

Does that include the new barn?

I'm not sure what it includes yet, I'm hoping to get all that info when I get the formal letter

From looking at others, I reckon it includes the boxes, arena, muck heap, tack room and feed room.

 

[cobgoblin]

You have to wonder at a country that taxes a muckheap!

 

[alainax]

So, an update. The valuation is £5k, so under the threshold, for now anyway !

I feel relief for you!

I heard on the radio today a hotelier whose rates are £260k pa has been told they are now going to be £350k pa. 100k a year, just like that. The sad thing is for businesses at least, it will most likely mean jobs will be lost.

 

[Slightly Foxed]

Do you not have to have a small business to claim the relief? I thought these were private horses.

That's what I thought.

 

[Cecile]

You have to wonder at a country that taxes a muckheap!

Oh my goodness, that did make me laugh, thank you!
What do they say......... where there's muck there is brass...... or some such thing

 

[case895]

I can yes. I will see how much they want first.

I'm just shocked at all the questions, and the fact they took photos of inside the tack room / feed room. Feels invasive

Why did you let them in and let them take photographs? They are the council, not the National Crime Agency or UK Border Force?

If they roll up at your gates, don't tell them your name, don't confirm the address, don't let therm photograph you and certainly don't let them in.

I think I'd act out a scene from Deliverance if they turned up at my door.
"Are you X? We're from the council. Can we come in please?"
"You got a purdy mouth boy. You come on in and we'll have a party. HEY BILLY-BOB. WE GOT A PURDY BOY HERE!"

 

[popsdosh]

Why did you let them in and let them take photographs? They are the council, not the National Crime Agency or UK Border Force?

If they roll up at your gates, don't tell them your name, don't confirm the address, don't let therm photograph you and certainly don't let them in.

I think I'd act out a scene from Deliverance if they turned up at my door.
"Are you X? We're from the council. Can we come in please?"
"You got a purdy mouth boy. You come on in and we'll have a party. HEY BILLY-BOB. WE GOT A PURDY BOY HERE!"

They certainly are not the council they are the valuation office an agency of HMRC who have more powers to enter property than the Police. The Police need a warrant HMRC dont.

 

[Xmasha]

Why did you let them in and let them take photographs? They are the council, not the National Crime Agency or UK Border Force?

If they roll up at your gates, don't tell them your name, don't confirm the address, don't let therm photograph you and certainly don't let them in.

I think I'd act out a scene from Deliverance if they turned up at my door.
"Are you X? We're from the council. Can we come in please?"
"You got a purdy mouth boy. You come on in and we'll have a party. HEY BILLY-BOB. WE GOT A PURDY BOY HERE!"

Brilliant, this has made me nearly spit my gin over my phone . This scenario will be going around my head for days. Thank you for putting the smile back on my face . (Bad day nothing to do with tax )

 

[case895]

They certainly are not the council they are the valuation office an agency of HMRC who have more powers to enter property than the Police. The Police need a warrant HMRC dont.

One of my neighbours had the planners around twice. The first time he had one by the throat, the second time he showed the planning officer his home address and which school his kids went to. He now has a large American barn, indoor school and several other buildings. He has no planning consent for any of them, but they have decided to stay in their offices and pretend everything is fine.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

One of my neighbours had the planners around twice. The first time he had one by the throat, the second time he showed the planning officer his home address and which school his kids went to. He now has a large American barn, indoor school and several other buildings. He has no planning consent for any of them, but they have decided to stay in their offices and pretend everything is fine.

That neighbour sounds like a nasty so and so.

 

[popsdosh]

One of my neighbours had the planners around twice. The first time he had one by the throat, the second time he showed the planning officer his home address and which school his kids went to. He now has a large American barn, indoor school and several other buildings. He has no planning consent for any of them, but they have decided to stay in their offices and pretend everything is fine.

Do you condone that sort of reaction? I repeat they are not the council!!