Counter canter help

[mavandkaz]

As mentioned in the weekend plans thread....since bringing my boy back into work, we have completely lost one of our counter canters. To be fair, we did struggle before he had time off, but it's much worse now.

So, with a left lead, we are fine. Can come across the diagonal or half circle and maintain the cc down the long side and round the short side etc.
But, with a right lead, he will do a clean flying change just before he hits the track.

I have tried:
Maintaining right bend.
Keeping my left leg back behind the girth
Keeping my weight and body position as though cantering on the right rein- and really exaggerating this.
Riding shallow loops (he changes not long after making the 'turn' back towards the track.
Leg yield and half pass when coming across and back to the track. He still changes just as he meets the track, which I'm not entirely sure how he manages when still in the half pass positioning!
Cantering across diagonal and asking for trot before the track - can do this but avoids the issue rather then addressing it.
Riding really shallow angles, but still does it.

Instructor is sure it is me, as he is able to maintain the cc when he has had a sit, and he did spot that my left leg moved - so something for me to work on.
Horse has a clean change in each direction, finds them easy and had mastered changes before needing to cc. (Early training was by someone with a jump background rather then dressage)

And just to make it a little more complicated, he has physical issues which I manage carefully, but can't do too much repitition.

So any other ideas or words of wisdom?

 

[milliepops]

come out at advanced medium

Um, ok more seriously - have you got any other horses you can have a sit on to just make sure you aren't doing something yourself that is cueing him to change? putting your leg back and maintaining the bend etc is sure part of it, but I wonder if you're changing your own balance or moving your hips/pelvis somehow without noticing.

can you strike off in counter canter on the long side, to bypass the trigger of finishing a diagonal or other line onto the new rein?
you could start this only on the long side and then begin to develop a very shallow turn onto the short side etc. i have been riding counter canter on long sides while my horse has been returning to work this spring and it's surprising how effective that is, even though you're on a straight line.

 

[ycbm]

Try standing up. I couldn't get counter canter on Ludo one way until my instructor told me to stand up out of the saddle and he got it immediately.

It took just a few tries over a couple of weeks to get it sat down.
.

 

[mavandkaz]

come out at advanced medium


Well that was my thinking. Did ask instructor at what level do you just stop counter canter?

It may well be me, but can't quite pin point what.
I do have little coblet to ride, who is the complete opposite. She will cc both ways, although thinking about there is one way she is more likely to break, but can't remember which. She doesn't see the point in changing legs - why do something that is more effort, when you can just motorbike round on the same leg!
They are both heavy in my right hand on right rein circles, so there is definitely something happening on my end.

I will need to practice picking up the 'wrong leg' on the straight but should be doable, and certainly makes sense

 

[mavandkaz]

Try standing up. I couldn't get counter canter on Ludo one way until my instructor told me to stand up out of the saddle and he got it immediately.

It took just a few tries over a couple of weeks to get it sat down.
.

ooh, never thought of that, definitely one to try.
Thanks!

 

[milliepops]

Well that was my thinking. Did ask instructor at what level do you just stop counter canter?

It may well be me, but can't quite pin point what.
I do have little coblet to ride, who is the complete opposite. She will cc both ways, although thinking about there is one way she is more likely to break, but can't remember which. She doesn't see the point in changing legs - why do something that is more effort, when you can just motorbike round on the same leg!
They are both heavy in my right hand on right rein circles, so there is definitely something happening on my end.

I will need to practice picking up the 'wrong leg' on the straight but should be doable, and certainly makes sense

unfortunately you do still get little bits of counter canter but the changes add up to more marks! A decent change will easily net you a 7 so it's nice when you have a horse that finds them easy

There's no getting away from it though, if the canter canter isn't on the aids then the change isn't either (otherwise you could stop it happening) so unfortunately although it's a fun idea it still needs sorting

I think the heavy in the right hand thing is the key to this, really you need the horse to be in your outside hand to maintain the balance that will mean he doesn't look to change instead, so i think i would worry less about CC as an exercise and think more about how you can improve balance and self carriage in all of the work, and then I think you will find the CC becomes less of an issue naturally. the CC is just exposing this. but you can be fixing it in everything you do.

I'd add that although people say to keep your outside leg back in counter canter, you do still need to be riding the canter like a normal pace, which would come primarily from your inside leg to maintain the impulsion and your outside rein to contain it. I remember having a bit of a lightbulb moment about that once upon a time your instructor is probably doing that unconsciously which may be why it doesn't happen with them.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

come out at advanced medium

Um, ok more seriously - have you got any other horses you can have a sit on to just make sure you aren't doing something yourself that is cueing him to change? putting your leg back and maintaining the bend etc is sure part of it, but I wonder if you're changing your own balance or moving your hips/pelvis somehow without noticing.

can you strike off in counter canter on the long side, to bypass the trigger of finishing a diagonal or other line onto the new rein?
you could start this only on the long side and then begin to develop a very shallow turn onto the short side etc. i have been riding counter canter on long sides while my horse has been returning to work this spring and it's surprising how effective that is, even though you're on a straight line.

This.


My horse is sensitive and anticipates. So I also do my flying changes from true canter to counter canter and all over the place so he doesn't associate it with a change of direction. I have to be very aware that I'm riding the canter and not just going along, or else he will want to throw in a change. My hips can't switch to true canter, if that makes sense, they have to stay in counter canter. So really pay attention to your body.

At first I exaggerated the bend a bit in order to make it clear to him. Now we can change our bend from outside to inside in the counter canter with no change or tantrums. Eventually, you will want to end up here. The horse has to wait and be on your aids.

I also would talk to my horse in counter canter, this helped reassure him that this "strange thing" was really what I wanted, but he's a sensitive soul, but worth a try talking you and your horse through it so you both relax into the counter canter. Start small and go from there. Do a long side, or even half of one, and build from there. I can usually feel if my horse is about to get tight (anticipation) or try to change, and can prevent it. So also try to get to the "problem" before it happens, if that makes sense.

For example: If you have done 3 nice
strides in counter canter and feel like he could change, do a nice transition to walk (or trot) before the change happens. Go do something else and then try it again. Make it real casual, just another thing we do now.

 

[daffy44]

Firstly, like everyone has said, make sure it isnt you! Try on other horses, and really think about how you are sitting, make sure you are not shifting your seat, or pelvis etc, because to a horse that knows changes thats an aid, so really try to keep your weight still, and keep thinking you are riding the leg you are on, not thinking counter canter.

Your horse must be able to strike off onto either leg on a straight line, so you can pick up counter canter on the track.
A good exercise for a horse that like to change when it hits the track, is to avoid the track altogether, so ride approximately the counter canter line from elem 59, so come out of the corner onto the diagonal, and then turn onto the centre line and keep going. To start with you can make this very shallow to help, and as the horse gains confidence you can ride it more like it is described in the test. This line as the advantage of never going near the track, and you dont have to stop to reset or change legs, so just keep coming, and you can make it more or less difficult depending on how the horse is feeling.

Once this is comfortable the horse will gain confidence that it is able to do counter canter and then you can try doing it towards the track again.

 

[ycbm]

ooh, never thought of that, definitely one to try.
Thanks!

Me neither, I thought she was barking. I couldn't believe it when it worked ?

 

[mavandkaz]

Thank you everyone. Lots to think about and try.

I have no doubt it is me. Although I can cc on both reins on the cob, she is such a tank and straight in her body you could probably shift about as much as possible and she still wouldn't break stride. They are complete opposites of each other - he's a TB, athletic, supple, and so easy to manoeuvre and bend it's easy to get a reaction from the smallest change in position.

Will practice different lines and cantering on right and wrong leads on the straight.

Will about getting myself seen to - but have a bit of a phobia about things like that. Hence never booking myself in, ever. (The idea of a spa day is the stuff of nightmares)