Court action over horse

[lhamm]

Please any help would be much appreciated.

Basically some friends of ours sold a horse 5 months ago. The people never followed any instructions with him, changed his feed etc, and now the horse is too much for the lady and has bucked her off and is apparently really dangerous to ride. She is saying that the horse has been seen by a dealer who values it at £1000, she paid £5000 for it.

So our friends have been trying to come to some arrangement to take the horse back, our friend offered to buy it back for £2500 because its now totally ruined and would need totally re-schooling, which the lady has declined

We have now been told the lady has given the horse away to someone for free because she just cant have it anymore because she is so scared of it, and wants a £3000 refund from our friends or she is taking them to court.

This doesnt seem right to me. Even though our friends have done nothing wrong, they are still trying to sort this out and are trying to buy the horse back, but the lady says she doesnt have it anymore ?

Can this lady give the horse away, even though she is in a dispute with our friends and threatening court ???

 

[AmyMay]

She can do what she likes, it's her horse.

Your friends should simply have refunded the money and taken the horse back. If it goes to court they will probably loose, so stand to loose a load more money than the refund would have cost them.

 

[catwithclaws]

Surely as long as your friends weren't dealers, it was buyer beware and they don't have a leg to stand on?

 

[lhamm]

Why should they refund the full asking price when this lady has had the horse 5 months and ruined it ?

 

[Orangehorse]

They need to contact the BHS legal helpline or an equine lawyer. Since the new owner had had it for several months, I can't see how she can blame the previous owners - although some courts do make odd decisions.

As for whether or not the new owner can give it away to someone else - of course she can, it was her horse. I bet the new owners get it going again and sell it for £5,000.

 

[3Beasties]

If it goes to court they will probably loose, so stand to loose a load more money than the refund would have cost them.

Really? Even if the friend isn't a dealer? After 5 months how can anyone prove that the horse was or wasn't as described?

Genuine question as I really didn't think that would be the case in this situation.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's impossible to say how a court case will go.
Your friends need legal advice from a solicitor experianced in this field ASAP.

 

[AmyMay]

Ive known a few cases where this happened, with private sales. Buyer beware means flick all nowadays it seems. Granted after 5 months it might be hard to prove any sort of mis-selling bythe op, but who knows? The law is an ass at the best of times.

It would certainly be interesting to know the full story.

 

[AmyMay]

Either way, going to court will cost them.

 

[WelshD]

Surely if it was that easy to win this sort of case people would be 'giving away' horses to family members and seeking refunds to get the best of both worlds!

 

[horse.love92]

Did she give them a written signed receipt saying sold as seen tried and tested . That's what we always do so we are covered !

 

[ribbons]

Your friends should tell this woman where to go, she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Your friends did more than was necessary by offering to take the horse back at half the selling price.
It was a private sale, she would be laughed at by trying to bring a case 5 months afterwards.

 

[Pedantic]

NOA

 

[3Beasties]

Your friends should tell this woman where to go, she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Your friends did more than was necessary by offering to take the horse back at half the selling price.
It was a private sale, she would be laughed at by trying to bring a case 5 months afterwards.

I was going to post something similar to this ^^^

 

[Spotsrock]

I dont think buyer has a leg to stand on, court will be an inconvenience only.

 

[Twinkley Lights]

She can do what she likes, it's her horse.

If it goes to court they will probably loose, so stand to loose a load more money than the refund would have cost them.

Courts are funny though and it's not so cut and dried. I think the offer of taking the horse back and the £2500 offer refund will weigh against the purchaser in court - she stands to lose her costs plus etc if the offer is later deemed reasonable.

I was misold but after careful consideration chose not to go to court as it's a mugs game and one thing is for sure that the lawyers always come out on top.

 

[AmyMay]

Never a truer word Twinkly

 

[dunkley]

It will cost them to bring a case in the small claims court. If your friend is properly prepared, she can do it (if it ever got that far, which I doubt) without a solicitor present. I second having a chat with the BHS legal helpline. If your friend was a genuine private seller, she will very easily be able to provide details of the advertisement, and references/statements from people who know her and the horse. They will be able to confirm he was indeed advertised correctly. Document everything. Tell her to keep copies of any/every communication from the buyers - especially if she has any where she has given clear management advice. Personally, I think they are chancing their arm, and when push comes to shove, they won't go any further than the first required 'notice' letter. Your friend must be perfectly clear that offering to buy the horse back was in no way an acknowledgement of culpability - merely a goodwill gesture, as she thought so much of the horse, having done 'x' amount with him, over 'x' amount of years.
It is quite definitely NOT your friend's fault/responsibility that they were complete numpties, and ruined her very good horse.

 

[skippydog]

With any luck once this lady sees how much court will cost she will decide against it.

I agree with a previous post of joining the BHS and get the free legal advice from them.

I used them once for something and they were very helpful.

 

[christine48]

5 months is an awful long time and you can easily ruin a horse in that time. Can she get some statements from instructors etc who knew the horse when she owned it.
I can't think they will have any come back after 5 months, 5 weeks then maybe. I wouldn't even buy it back at a lower price as it may not be that easy to sell.
I think they are trying it on and I would call their bluff.

 

[cptrayes]

I believe that the buyer has made a very big mistake giving the horse away. There is now no way for any court to measure her loss. Friends of mine in a similar situation were told by their lawyers to auction the horse in order to establish its fair market value.

I think your friends need to talk to as equine specialist lawyer.

 

[_GG_]

I don't know the details but an old livery at our yard bought a pony off a dealer.

Pony had been ridden in pelham by dealer and is documented by the dealer to have bolted on two occasions. It was sold as a mother/daughter share, snaffle mouthed and bombproof pony.

Pony came with pelham and couldn't be ridden in snaffle. A year later started bolting again resulting in a hurt and confidence damaged daughter and a mum with a badly broken arm.

Dealer was very good and took the pony back to work it, pony was sold on no problems and has been fine since.

However...when the purchaser initially decided to sell, she contacted a specialist equine lawyer that said that she would have a case for the pony not being as advtised under the sale of goods act or something. She was told that was applicable for 6 years and longer in some cases.

So, time is irrelevant. What you wrote in the add or what is documented before sale and what has happened after sale is the grey area that will determine who has to do what, but I wonder if she can do anything at all if she has given the horse away.

Also, whilst offering to buy the horse back may seem like a positive thing....it could also be seen as an admission of guilt.

Get proper legal advice.

 

[ribbons]

GG
The big, huge, massive difference is your example involved a dealer. This situation is based around a private sale.
A whole different ball game.

 

[martlin]

GG
The big, huge, massive difference is your example involved a dealer. This situation is based around a private sale.
A whole different ball game.

We also don't know how, if at all, the horse was mis-described in the ad.
OP, if your friends advertised the horse accurately, gave management instruction etc, I wouldn't worry, let the buyer blow hot air.
I would reiterate that the buy back offer was a gesture of good will out of concern for the horse's welfare and in no way admission of any sort of liability, seize all communication after that and seek legal advice.

 

[_GG_]

GG
The big, huge, massive difference is your example involved a dealer. This situation is based around a private sale.
A whole different ball game.

We also don't know how, if at all, the horse was mis-described in the ad.
OP, if your friends advertised the horse accurately, gave management instruction etc, I wouldn't worry, let the buyer blow hot air.
I would reiterate that the buy back offer was a gesture of good will out of concern for the horse's welfare and in no way admission of any sort of liability, seize all communication after that and seek legal advice.

Yes, but the assumptions on this thread show that many think that not much can be done after 5 months even if it is a dealer, yet my friends situation showed that the time limit can actually be much much longer.

Assumption is the talent of the foolish. Assume that they don't have a leg to stand on because it was a private sale and you could end up very out of pocket.

Make a quick call to get some specialist legal advice, remove all doubt and know where you stand.

 

[DabDab]

You need to speak to an equine lawyer, but for what it's worth:

Yes you can sue someone under the sale of goods act if the item you have bought is not as described, but the buyer is not entitled to a refund if they have misused the item and caused a fault. So if you took a toaster home and because you did not read the instructions you used it incorrectly and caused a fault you would not be entitled to a refund. Of course it is not quite so clear cut with a horse, but the buyer in question would need a lot of evidence to prove that the horse was not as described and that it was not their misuse of it that caused the problems.

I have only really known of people being successful when going down this root if the horse was doped or had behavioural problems that became apparent immediately after the horse was taken home.

 

[ribbons]

I'm not assuming GG
If the small amount of information OP has given is accurate then this woman is either very stupid threatening court action, or she is bluffing, hoping for a refund.

BUT to take advice on such a potentially important situation from a forum of unknown people would be foolish.

It shouldn't be too costly to book a quick appointment with a specialist solicitor for advice.

I wouldn't bother personally, but if in doubt best play safe.

As I said, if info provided is accurate this woman has no case.

 

[AmyMay]

Or, she has a case....

 

[lamlyn2012]

With a private sale the buyer has to prove misrepresentation. ie that the vendor misrepresented the horse. The burden of proof will be on the buyer who will need proof that the horse acted in this way before she bouht it and that the vendor was aware of it. It is much harder than bringing a claim against a dealer when she could cite "not fit for purpose".

 

[_GG_]

I'm not assuming GG
If the small amount of information OP has given is accurate then this woman is either very stupid threatening court action, or she is bluffing, hoping for a refund.

BUT to take advice on such a potentially important situation from a forum of unknown people would be foolish.

It shouldn't be too costly to book a quick appointment with a specialist solicitor for advice.

I wouldn't bother personally, but if in doubt best play safe.

As I said, if info provided is accurate this woman has no case.

Never said you were making assumptions....just that there were assumptions being made on this thread about 5 months being too long.

The livery on the yard just had a quick call with an equine solicitor, no appointment and no charge.

Got to be worth it just for peace of mind if nothing else.

Life has taught me that it is just when you think something is clear cut, it comes back to bite you on the ass, so a little knowledge is always a better option than an educated guess in my opinion.