Crank nosebands?

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Floxie

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I'd not come across these before - but I inherited one with my new horse.

I then saw a post on here that mentioned them as if they were a bad thing (sorry, no idea where, didn't note it at the time, only thought about it after!)

Are they actually bad?

When I got mine I thought "Oh, this is good, the pressure will be even whatever hole it's on".

I can see they could easily be over tightened, but is there anything bad aside from that?
 
Other than the possibility of easily over tightening there isn't anything 'bad' about them.
I would never have one as even a discerning eye can over do them. But To me the clue is in their name 'crank' i personally do not want to crank my horses jaw closed like a machine (without sounding melodramatic) i would rather work on softening their jaw and have them accepting the bit through comfort not because they cant move their tongue away as their mouths are strapped shut.

Im not part of the simple tack Taliban but to me martingales (breastplates are okay, we all need a handy hold in sticky situations!) flash's, cranks, grackles and some 'extreme' bits such as certain gags etc (with exceptions of course and as we know a bit is as hard as a riders hands, even a 'kind' snaffle) should all be relegated to the bin in exchange for correct schooling.

Ps sorry about the rant! :p
 
ex racer rider said:
Other than the possibility of easily over tightening there isn't anything 'bad' about them.
I would never have one as even a discerning eye can over do them. But To me the clue is in their name 'crank' i personally do not want to crank my horses jaw closed like a machine (without sounding melodramatic) i would rather work on softening their jaw and have them accepting the bit through comfort not because they cant move their tongue away as their mouths are strapped shut.

Im not part of the simple tack Taliban but to me martingales (breastplates are okay, we all need a handy hold in sticky situations!) flash's, cranks, grackles and some 'extreme' bits such as certain gags etc (with exceptions of course and as we know a bit is as hard as a riders hands, even a 'kind' snaffle) should all be relegated to the bin in exchange for correct schooling.

Ps sorry about the rant! :p
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No, rant is ok! I hope you don't mind me arguing against it as one who uses one (and a martingale!) without any of the intentions you list - and of course I'm happy to be told otherwise :D

When I got my bridle I didn't know the name of the noseband. I initially fastened it on the hole it had been on before (shh!) and then after a few weeks decided it could be loosened by one, because two fingers under it were a bit tight (and I may be remembering that 'rule' from my childhood wrong!). But what I liked about it was the fact that whatever hole you had it on, it would be central to the nose - unlike most standard buckle nosebands.

I put a martingale on for jumping only (just don't want the reins round his knees if I take the front exit!) but it's not tight enough to make any impact on how he goes - in fact I spend a lot of the lesson working on relaxing him and getting him using his back, and if that works the martingale shouldn't impact at all.

I'm defending my riding here, when really I mean to say that these things you see as 'gadgets', I *think*, I don't use as such... I hope not, any way. I'm not really a fan of schooling toys, but I'm also pretty green myself so may be using more than I know! But the noseband - that's what I was wondering about, whether it's just the potential for over-tightening. Which I agree is nasty - but I also think the central pressure is quite a nice feature if you're not an ass about using it! :D
 
Floxie said:
No, rant is ok! I hope you don't mind me arguing against it as one who uses one (and a martingale!) without any of the intentions you list - and of course I'm happy to be told otherwise :D

When I got my bridle I didn't know the name of the noseband. I initially fastened it on the hole it had been on before (shh!) and then after a few weeks decided it could be loosened by one, because two fingers under it were a bit tight (and I may be remembering that 'rule' from my childhood wrong!). But what I liked about it was the fact that whatever hole you had it on, it would be central to the nose - unlike most standard buckle nosebands.

I put a martingale on for jumping only (just don't want the reins round his knees if I take the front exit!) but it's not tight enough to make any impact on how he goes - in fact I spend a lot of the lesson working on relaxing him and getting him using his back, and if that works the martingale shouldn't impact at all.

I'm defending my riding here, when really I mean to say that these things you see as 'gadgets', I *think*, I don't use as such... I hope not, any way. I'm not really a fan of schooling toys, but I'm also pretty green myself so may be using more than I know! But the noseband - that's what I was wondering about, whether it's just the potential for over-tightening. Which I agree is nasty - but I also think the central pressure is quite a nice feature if you're not an ass about using it! :D
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Its fine Hun!
I don't dislike cranks if they Are used sensibly and kindly, as you say they stay central and even out the pressure and a martingale can be useful full if you have one liable to stick their ears up your nose! But my 'problem' (not really a problem just me being a fussy bugger lol) is the action they have on the reins in a 'situation' as they put downwards pressure on the reins and any 'feel' you give On the reins is dulled and changed so its just me being pedantic i suppose.
But i will admit a secret.... My previous horse ws ridden in, are you ready for it? A Dutch gag, grackle and running martingale *shock horror gasp*!!! But i found alternatives in both tack and my riding.
You learn as you go on what is needed, what should be changed and what should put you in the naughty corner ;) in my case more schooling meant i could have safely removed the martingale (which i eventually did but kept the hunter breastplate on... What can i say, she looked good in it :cool: ) and switching back to the hanging cheek with a French link instead of a snaffle would have made ant she didn't need the grackle..... Hindsight an all that!

But i don't care what people put on their horses as long as it is not mis used or used for the wrong reason.
 
I just realised that the 'i don't care what people put on their horses' comment could have seemed bitchy. It wasn't meant like that at all! Im slightly less eloquent at this hour lol! :p
 
I inherated a crank with my loan horse (along with his gag and martingale- both of which are now hanging un-used in the tack room)
I was also worried about overtightening and I spent ages researching them on the internet.
Apart from cases where they were overtightened i couldn't find any bad things about them
In fact they seem pretty standard issue on a lot of the comfort bridles.
 
As dominobrown. Both my bridges have crank nosebands. I like them as they are wide and well padded but I don't tighten them any more than I would a normal cavesson.
Don't see a problem if you use a bit of common sense :)
 
I love my crank noseband - it's big and wide and padded, and holds in place to support a flash properly, unlike the saggy flimsy thing I had before.

And yes, my big old horse does need a flash in order to maintain control out hunting! But to use one with a loose noseband would be not only ineffective, but highly uncomfortable for the horse, as the flash done up to any sort of effective tightness would drag the noseband down and apply pressure on the bridge of the nose, or lower.

I don't see the problem with crank nosebands in the slightest. Surely you'd have to be a bit of a moron to manage to use it wrong?!
 
Please could someone direct me to the simple tack Taliban threads, I want to join! I dislike nosebands altogether and never use them, other than if showing or dressage, or hunting. Then a plain cavesson, and only to present as correctly attired.
 
I'm going to give another reason for dislike cranks - the metal loops either side that the cranks strap goes through sit over the molars and cause the soft cheeks to be pushed onto them. I've seem some horrid ulcers inside horses mouths from this. It's not just tight cranks that do this.
 
I use a crack noseband with my boy and so do most people at my yard with their horses. I didn't think their was much of a difference when I bought it, it was just padded and really good quality so chose it over the other choices.
I've been told it stops them getting their tongue over the bit (didn't have that problem anyway) and you have to be careful with how tight you do it but I always am so I really like it :)
 
Burmilla said:
Please could someone direct me to the simple tack Taliban threads, I want to join! I dislike nosebands altogether and never use them, other than if showing or dressage, or hunting. Then a plain cavesson, and only to present as correctly attired.
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Im not sure there are any particular 'simple tack taliban' threads, just the odd thread where people who don't want a kilo of gadgets on their horses have a little rant. I just coined the name there so would you like to be an honorary member.... We may take over the barefoot Taliban! ;)
 
I've seen then used as a tool when the horse just isn't listening to the bit (opening their mouths instead).. and have seen them used to their full horrid potential as in not only forcing the mouth shut, but overtightened as well..
I think tools like this shouldn't be allowed in the tack kit, as the temptation to overtighten can be too easily achieved..
Don't even get me started on the bits.. the word 'Fashion' comes to mind..
 
Hi everyone, hope you don't mind me 're-opening' this thread. I am riding a young horse at the minute who is pretty lazy in the school and wears a crank noseband. Even on the last hole it seems pretty tight on him and leaves a slight mark when I take off his bridle. My question basically is, what's the actual point of crank nosebands, and do you think that they would affect the way that he goes?
 
FlaxenPony05 said:
Hi everyone, hope you don't mind me 're-opening' this thread. I am riding a young horse at the minute who is pretty lazy in the school and wears a crank noseband. Even on the last hole it seems pretty tight on him and leaves a slight mark when I take off his bridle. My question basically is, what's the actual point of crank nosebands, and do you think that they would affect the way that he goes?
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Any piece of tack can affect a horse's way of going. That effect is only exacerbated when it is poorly fitting - and sorry but if your noseband is tight and marking his face then it sounds like it really doesn't fit.

Why is the horse in this piece of tack anyway? Can you take it off and see how he goes without it? I go nosebandless 99% of the time as it's my personal preference and it's less tack to clean :D

I have no problem with cranks, it is common sense not to do them any tighter than you would with a cavesson. On a well fitted crank the metal loops should certainly not be putting pressure on the horse's molars either.
 
My problem is with this part of the original post: "the pressure will be even, no matter what hole its on". There should be *no* pressure IMO, which is why I dislike flash and crank nosebands. Drop and cavesson nosebands don't create the same constant pressure.

Grackle nosebands exert pressure, but they also serve a purpose not fulfilled by a cavesson or a drop. Grackles are also not allowed in dressage - a recognition of the strong piece of equipment that they are, having no place on what should be the well schooled dressage horse.

Except in the instance where somebody wants to use both a standing martingale and a drop noseband, I can see no point to the existence of the flash noseband. The only riders I've seen using that combination are polo players, and they still use the two nosebands, cavesson and drop together, not a flash. Probably because the flash is less effective than the drop. I can see no purpose at all for the crank nosebands existence, other than being 'kinder' than fastening a normal cavesson, or top part of a flash, really tight. But I don't think people should be doing that anyway!

Flaxen pony the purpose is to keep the mouth shut, or if fastened tightly to prevent any movement of the jaw at all. I think it would affect the horses ability to relax because of the constant pressure created. This would in turn affect the horses whole way of going. Especially a lazy horse. Why use something that will have the effect of causing tension and therefore blocking true forward movement, on a horse that already needs encouragement to move?
 
rhino said:
Any piece of tack can affect a horse's way of going. That effect is only exacerbated when it is poorly fitting - and sorry but if your noseband is tight and marking his face then it sounds like it really doesn't fit.

Why is the horse in this piece of tack anyway? Can you take it off and see how he goes without it? I go nosebandless 99% of the time as it's my personal preference and it's less tack to clean :D

I have no problem with cranks, it is common sense not to do them any tighter than you would with a cavesson. On a well fitted crank the metal loops should certainly not be putting pressure on the horse's molars either.
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what she said.
get a bigger noseband, please!

fig and CS both have cranks on, but they flap in the wind and couldnt squash a gnat, never mind their cheeks!
 
I hadn't realised there had been so many replies - oops!

Festive Faracat said:
You might find this interesting. :)

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/bridle.php#crank
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I really did... I thought that 'easy to overtighten' meant just... I dunno, physically easy to pull it tighter than you ought to. Then after reading this, tacking up tonight I took a look at how I'd been fitting it, though I've had it looser in recent weeks - the very mechanism makes it easy to overtighten without realising you are doing, even if you think you know better :eek:

The shape of it too is bad - the thick 'padding' extends too low (IMO), meaning it tightens directly over the soft cheeks. The pressure is applied at that point on both sides. Ow.

So I stuck mine on the loosest hole and felt pretty sorry for my poor horse.

If I were to remove it all together, is there anything I should be aware of? Will it currently be serving a purpose or acting as a control that won't be there if I take it off? I just don't want to make a Big Change without being prepared for possible consequences!

(I think I'll keep it on for jumping, having read the nosediving comments at the start of that link! Bear with me though, I'm replying before reading all of it *slap on wrist* )
 
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