Cremation for charity rescue horses?….a waste of money?

[Melandmary]

Just wondered if I am alone in thinking this. I support a couple of local equine charities with small monthly donations to contribute for hay. I know that one of them is having a tough year, has had to give up one of their big fields and is constantly fundraising for donations towards the upkeep of their ponies. Today they posted on fb that they had one of their ponies pts and that he had been cremated and they were getting a casket with his ashes to go with alongside the other ponies that had been pts in their care and it struck me as a waste of money when they are struggling to pay for general upkeep . The cremation fee would cover hay and feed for a couple of months quite easily. Am I harsh in thinking they are wasting their supporter’s money? Should I even care? Do all equine charities do this? I feel that in this economy when charities are reliant on us to keep them afloat that our donations should be spent on essentials rather than sentiment.

 

[LEC]

Well you would think the horses which were still alive would benefit more from that money…. And if they are dead then they don’t need the money.

Have a look on the charities commission page at their income as they might have more money than they make out.

 

[planete]

What would happen to the bodies otherwise? I thought they had to be incinerated anyway? I agree with perhaps not having the extra expense of separate ashes and casket though but not everybody feels the same about death and memories.

 

[Melandmary]

I wasn’t aware you could do that….I will. I don’t believe they are flush. It is purely run by volunteers. They had to give up their big field due to rent increases.

 

[LEC]

What would happen to the bodies otherwise? I thought they had to be incinerated anyway? I agree with perhaps not having the extra expense of separate ashes and casket though but not everybody feels the same about death and memories.

Typically horses are PTS and then a few options. The hunt, incinerated or cremated. Very different price points. Typically removal and incineration is about £300. Cremated is around £1k

 

[meleeka]

Cremation in the only option if the pony has received medication (quite likely for a rescue I’d imagine) or is pts by injection. I don’t think it’s necessary to have ashes back and a casket, but I imagine the sentiment brings in donations and that’s the reason they do it.

Unfortunately pts isn’t cheap, so the extra cost of having the ashes back doesn’t make that much of an extra dent. The difference is around £300 here.

 

[Melandmary]

What would happen to the bodies otherwise? I thought they had to be incinerated anyway? I agree with perhaps not having the extra expense of separate ashes and casket though but not everybody feels the same about death and memories.

Well I guess they go into the animal food chain. I had my horse pts and cremated nearly 20 years ago and it was nearly £800 then. I know you can have the horse pts by gun and taken away for £180. I know it is not as “nice” but the charity struggles to feed and cover their vet fees from what they post on fb so I consider the sentiment of cremation and having ashes returned a sentiment they can’t afford really

 

[HopOnTrot]

I find the concept of cremation a bit weird on any level, when I die I want my body to go to organ donations or medical science. It serves no other purpose, I remember anyone one or anything thing through memories, not their charred remains.

 

[blitznbobs]

I find the concept of cremation a bit weird on any level, when I die I want my body to go to organ donations or medical science. It serves no other purpose, I remember anyone one or anything thing through memories, not their charred remains.

What do you think they do with your body after a load of teenagers have chopped it up into small bits? That’s right… it’s cremated.

 

[Melandmary]

I have had 1 horse cremated and my dogs- their ashes scattered in places they were fond of being. It is everyone’s personal choice depending on beliefs and more so when it comes to horses , financial situation. I pawned all my jewellery to get my first horse cremated but in the case of a charity i believe they have a duty to spend their funds on caring for the living animals- cremation is a frivolous sentiment when they are wasting with one hand and begging with the other. I guess myleeka is probably correct in that it will bring in more donations and I could just stop my donations if I disagree with how they spend their funds

 

[marmalade76]

It is a complete waste of money and not something I do for my own horses (my special one was buried though).

 

[Barton Bounty]

It is about £1600 up here to have your horse cremated and ashes back. That is a lot of money if you are relying on donations.
Whereas you could have their body disposed of a lot cheaper with the knackerman I suppose. Even if it is injection up here its a few hundred to be taken away by him.
I can understand it being done when it is your heart horse as I have recently done it but if you are running a business I wouldn't say it is feasible to do that.

 

[SEL]

It's about a £500 difference to have ashes returned I found. They may have had a donation for that specific purpose I suppose.

 

[asmp]

It's about a £500 difference to have ashes returned I found. They may have had a donation for that specific purpose I suppose.

That’s still a lot of hay money

 

[twiggy2]

Typically horses are PTS and then a few options. The hunt, incinerated or cremated. Very different price points. Typically removal and incineration is about £300. Cremated is around £1k

If the horse has had any meds including those to PTS it can't go to the hunt, it has to be medication free and shot for that.
I dint ever want ashes back from the death death of any animals but I would imagine volunteers may get attached to the rescue horses and shooting horses and sending bodies to the hunt may not be a very popular choice.
Ashes back does seem a bit indulgent though unless someone wants to pay for the ashes out of their own pocket.
Depending on location I would imagine a hunt taking bodies for hounds may not be so easy either as packs seem to be reducing all the time.

 

[scats]

Individual cremation to get ashes back is more expensive.
I only did that for my first pony, all the rest have gone into the communal oven (for want of a better word)
It’s a good few hundred extra to have ashes back for this reason, which seems like a waste of money for a charity.
A nice plaque in the pony’s memory would be just as nice a tribute, and far cheaper.

I do have issue with the way some smaller charities operate though, so perhaps my view is skewed somewhat.

 

[Boughtabay]

Where we are horses are collected by the fallen stock people. The collector does offer return of ashes which is much much more expensive as the animal has to be separated, they’re then cremated individually, “gathered” (sorry) individually and returned. It adds hundreds of pounds to the already quite expensive standard horse collection price, which is ~£250 here.

 

[HopOnTrot]

What do you think they do with your body after a load of teenagers have chopped it up into small bits? That’s right… it’s cremated.

Then what? Landfill? They don’t keep the pot in the lab to remember a great set of intestines and a pickled brain

 

[Peglo]

Just playing devils advocate here but do we know the charity didn’t get discount on the cremation as a ‘donation’ to the charity. Or that it hadn’t come out of an individuals pocket rather than donations?

Anyway it’s a shame for the folk donating to the charity if they feel it’s a waste of their donations. Could you message the charity OP and get some clarification on the situation and let them know how you feel?

 

[EstherYoung]

Then what? Landfill? They don’t keep the pot in the lab to remember a great set of intestines and a pickled brain

When you sign up to donate to medical science you have to be very specific about what you want to happen, and what you don't want to happen. There are options. Your family can get the remains back (via undertaker) so that they can have a 'normal' burial or cremation, or you can have a cremation organised by the medical school. For the person I knew who did this, the national repository centre in Nottingham organised the cremation. It was all done very respectfully through an undertaker with a proper hearse and flowers, music selected by the family and a short service - really no different to a 'normal' cremation. Where the family aren't coming, I think they do a joint service/cremation but they still do it all very respectfully through an undertaker.

If anyone is interested in donating themselves to science, you have to complete the form, with witnesses, before you die. And your relatives need to be aware that it could be 18 months plus before the scientists/teaching colleges have finished with you - and that during that time they may get updates about the types of research or teaching experiences you've been involved in. But from what I observed, it was all done in a very caring way and once the remains are released they just go back into the normal undertaker processes.

 

[Clodagh]

Cremation in the only option if the pony has received medication (quite likely for a rescue I’d imagine) or is pts by injection. I don’t think it’s necessary to have ashes back and a casket, but I imagine the sentiment brings in donations and that’s the reason they do it.

Unfortunately pts isn’t cheap, so the extra cost of having the ashes back doesn’t make that much of an extra dent. The difference is around £300 here.

But you can have bulk cremation and no ashes back.
And £300 is about 45 bales of hay.

 

[Goldenstar]

We don’t know a lot about this cremation and incineration are not a lot different .
Do I think keeping the ashes of dead ponies at extra cost to a charity is a bad use of funds ,yes. Do I think it shows a woolly attitude that would make me worry about the commitment to the living, yes.
Would I comdem them on the basis of the details OP has given no.
I find the idea of keeping ashes bizarre in all cases so I am perhaps not the best person to judge this .

 

[webble]

Yes complete waste of money, there is a local charity round here that waste money like it is going out of fashion, take on animals as if space isnt an issue have an aversion to PTS and cry poverty. No one can say anything about it because they have a cult like following but to me the conditions some of the animals are kept in just isnt ok

 

[meleeka]

As I said upthread, a FB post of the casket with the caption “Tough day, we got Dobbin back. Please donate to enable our horses to have the end they deserve” probably makes them more than what it costs in donations. There’s going to be people that decide from that that it’s a charity that really loves its animals and is worth supporting. Of course real horse owners look at things very differently, but that’s probably not who the charity’s target audience is.

There’s a charity I follow thats recently posted asking for people to buy personalised headcollars. That’s also a waste of money imo, but there’s a steady stream of people doing just that. (They did also post asking for donations for hay on the same day).

 

[ycbm]

There seems to be some misunderstanding on this thread. Even hunts tend to feed their hounds on kibble these days not on horse flesh, because of the laws regarding storage and handling of animal products. So in practice nearly all dead horses which are not killed at an abattoir are cremated.

I wouldn't donate to a charity which spends the additional hundreds of pounds required to have the cremation done individually and the ashes returned in a casket. That action is for the living only, it helps no animals. There are far more effective ways of raising funds when you have access to old and sick horses than to show pictures of a casket.
.

 

[SpeedyPony]

Fewer hunts have a flesh round these days (there are still a few) but the knacker can still take a shot horse for animal feed (one semi local to us takes them to the zoo) or if PTS by injection they can go for rendering (glue etc) or as said above, bulk cremation is significantly cheaper. TBH I wouldn't be happy thinking donations had been spent on a dead animal where they might have gone into feed for the living, but I am also not sentimental about corpses- human or animal!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Then what? Landfill? They don’t keep the pot in the lab to remember a great set of intestines and a pickled brain

Not the slightest bit funny . I’ve been the student in the anatomy lab watching a pickled human corpse get smaller and smaller each week after the medical students had hacked away at it. It was drummed into us to treat the remains with respect. As physio students we probably took that on board more than the med students did.

As it happens, we ended up here at home with a real life male skeleton whose owner had donated it to medical science. After many, many years passing through the hands of generations of medical and physio students for the study of anatomy, it was rather the worse for wear.

Debating on what would a suitable way to retire the skeleton, we went through proper channels and handed the skeleton over to the staff at the mortuary at the local hospital. There was quite a bit of paperwork to be completed, and of course they had to be satisfied that our story was true and that there was no foul play involved.

Going back to the OP. It costs a lot more for a carcass to be cremated individually and the ashes returned in a casket compared to group cremation and no ashes. For cremation read incineration. It is a wasteful use of any charity funds to insist on individual cremation and to get the ashes back, though of course individuals owners can choose for the ashes to be returned if they wish, as they pay the bills. That is not my thing, once they’re gone they’re gone.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Not wanting to derail this thread. Where do they get cremated or incinerated if the hunt collect them?
I took one to the hunt (via my job not my own horse) and drive past another hunt Kennels very regularly. I never see any signs of incineration and it must happen often. There are no smoke or chimneys visible

 

[Clodagh]

Not wanting to derail this thread. Where do they get cremated or incinerated if the hunt collect them?
I took one to the hunt (via my job not my own horse) and drive past another hunt Kennels very regularly. I never see any signs of incineration and it must happen often. There are no smoke or chimneys visible

Round here the hunts all feed flesh. And pasties! But mainly flesh. One hunt has bought up the flesh rounds in the area and process the lot.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Cremation in the only option if the pony has received medication (quite likely for a rescue I’d imagine) or is pts by injection. I don’t think it’s necessary to have ashes back and a casket, but I imagine the sentiment brings in donations and that’s the reason they do it.

Unfortunately pts isn’t cheap, so the extra cost of having the ashes back doesn’t make that much of an extra dent. The difference is around £300 here.

Having the individual ashes back makes a huge difference to the cost here. The last horse I had pts (shot) and incinerated cost me £200 pre-Covid, charges may have gone up since then. Friend had her horse's ashes back, prior to that £600. I really can't see the point.