Cremello Stallions

Thank you Colourfan for the time and effort you have put into your list
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Thank you Colourfan for the time and effort you have put into your list
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Thankies CF
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You are a STAR!!!
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We should all...
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*whispers* BTW I found out that Magic Memphis has been 70 day tested (thats if my german translation was right
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Crown’s Wonder Pearl – 2005 - ?? – DPA – ECHA – Appr. – Colour Bk.1 – Brackenspa Stud UK


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To aid in your '??' I was lucky enough to be present at the ECHA grading last Autumn where Brackenspa Stud presented Crown's Wonder Pearl.

At the end of his grading it was announced, among other things, that he was 15.3hh and graded into Hengstbuch 1.

After chatting with his groom it was made clear that he will be presented for his performance test as a 4yr old in 2009.

I am looking forward to seeing how he has developed at the stud open day at the end of March.
 
I looked at this one http://www.crownhorse.com/
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=Crown%92s+Blue+Pearl
I dont know if it is the new monitor but what has put me off is most look to be quiet long in the back. Next to black I like a Palomino, I would not pick one that did not compliment the mare. And to be honest the level we ride at performance is not the be all & end all from a stallion. His conformation has to suit the mare & temperment is a must, also he has to be approved by his breed society at least.
 
Corrections received:
Warmblood Bred and EU Approved:
Weissgold is 16.2H

Colour Association Bred and EUC Approved:
Crown’s Blue Pearl – 2001 – 170cm – Dan.Pal.Ass. – DPA/ECHA/ZfDP – Appr. - ECHA Bk.1/ZfDP Bk.2 – Crown Horse Stud DK
Crown’s Wonder Pearl – 2005 – 15.3H – DPA – ECHA – Appr. – Bk.1 – Brackenspa Stud UK
Slotshus Tosca located at Estier Stud France

70-day tests:
WB+EU approved: Mascarpone’s Erbe
WB+EUC approved: Magic Memphis

Going in 2009:
WB+EU: The Alchemist
WB+EU: Weissgold
WB+EUC: Crown’s Wonder Pearl

30-day test:
WB+EU approved:Limet Hurry
 
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*whispers* BTW I found out that Magic Memphis has been 70 day tested (thats if my german translation was right
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Yes Magic Memphis did his 70-day test and got quite good results. Unfortunately even with the result his foals cannot be registered in Book 1 in most of the WB Studbooks.
He is approved with the Danish Sport Horse Ass and with the Pferdstammbuch Schleswig Holstein (NOT to be confused with the Holstein Verband!!) ... the first is a Sport Register and the second is a mixed breed Register, however under the flag of Pferdst.SH he did his 70-day test, succeeded AND because ZfDP have an affliation with Pferdst.SH, the ZfDP accepts him in the WB Bk 1. Again however no colt of his could ever get Stallion Bk 1 full approval as neither sire nor grandsires, both sides, were ever WB approved. Such a pity!!
 
ColourFan - what a fabulous list! I'm sure we'd all volunteer to run an iron over a few clothes for you as partial thanks ...
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One SMALL correction on Guaranteed Gold. He is 16.1hh and he has undergone performance testing as well within the context of the CSHA, where certain results had to be achieved in the discipline of choice (in his case - eventing) in order for him to achieve his Bronze Premium status. He can now move up through the ranks based on his own performance and also through the performance of his offspring, which I believe follows the same model as the European registries

VERY impressive list once again! Thanks for taking the time to put that together for all of us ...
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If you goggle for information about him the most informative site is: http://www.sporting-horse.co.uk/PerlinoKinsky.htm

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Actually the two most informative sites about him are a translation of his original Swedish and Danish site http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?...l%3Den%26sa%3DG and the new Trevoulter Barton Stud site http://www.trevoulterbartonstud.co.uk/perlinokinsky.htm both of which also include his excellent Danish grading marks of Head, neck, overline and body: 9899 Limbs: Front: 8 Hind 8 Paces: Walk 8 Trot 8 Canter 7 Overall impression: 8 and a brief history of the Kinsky (Czech Warmblood breed) and its contribution to sport horse breeding.

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There is no mention of him on Ranby Hall Stud site, but I see that he has been recently added to the Trevoulter Barton Stud site.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't think Paul has updated the Ranby Hall one for quite a while (they certainly don't stand an Irish Draught anymore) and just used the www.sporting-horse.co.uk one instead as it was likely to pick up more googlers.

I also gather that Perlino Kinsky will be appearing at the Arena UK PSHP Stallion Parade on 14 March if you want to see him in the flesh

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Will correct accordingly, thank you!

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Very intersting list :-)
 
I noticed that they have a lot of driving photo's of him, are his offspring too young to be showing any talents? I suppose that when you think you are paying in excess of £970 compare that to some of the other stallions available with great competition records & offspring proving themselves as well. It could work out an expensive Palomino or Buckskin & no matter how popular these colours may becoming in sporthorses it is still quiet gamble. Interesting though as he is one I like.

I would like to know what others think as far as using any of these listed as breeding potential sportshorses.
 
You should look up the offspring page. The oldest have been just three last year and are already under saddle and competing! There are plenty of links and informations.

1400 USD ist about 1100 Euro which is an average stud fee in Germany for a good stallion that is competing and has good offspring.
 
I have a Perlino WB who can produce Palomino's and Buckskins but not smokey blacks.

www.halonastud.co.uk

Everyone who has been seen his youngstock have been absolutely delighted with them, and not because of the colour, he is stamping his stock very well.
 
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ColourFan - what a fabulous list! I'm sure we'd all volunteer to run an iron over a few clothes for you as partial thanks ...
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One SMALL correction on Guaranteed Gold. He is 16.1hh and he has undergone performance testing as well within the context of the CSHA, where certain results had to be achieved in the discipline of choice (in his case - eventing) in order for him to achieve his Bronze Premium status. He can now move up through the ranks based on his own performance and also through the performance of his offspring, which I believe follows the same model as the European registries

VERY impressive list once again! Thanks for taking the time to put that together for all of us ...
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Thank you!

With respect to the performance test of the CSHA, this is a Sport Register and not a Warmblood Register or Studbook, so unfortunately any results obtained will have no standing in an EU recognized Warmblood Studbook. Of course his foals are eligible for registration in the WB Studbooks but they will always be B-Register or Book 2 and never Main-Book. If you want his foals eligible for Main-Book registration with EU recognized WB Studbooks you will have to get him approved in one of them AND, in the case of the German Studbooks, followup with the 70-day stallion test.

That said, you can (am nearly 100% certain) however transfer his performance test to the ECHA and get him approved with them, again this is not a WB Register.

Although not completely familiar with their rules and regulations, the S.S.H. is also a Sport Register, European based and located in UK, and I am sure they will accept his transfer from a 'sister' Sport Register if the CSHA has a similar model of testing. Again however not a Warmbloed Register, these have totally different criteria.

 
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That said, you can (am nearly 100% certain) however transfer his performance test to the ECHA and get him approved with them, again this is not a WB Register.

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Help me out here (I AM from Canada after all!
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What is ECHA please?

Also - tell me your thoughts on this. Guaranteed Gold is not Trakehner approved but he was bred to some Trakehner mares and has produced 2 colts and 1 filly. The Trakehner breeder is VERY "up" on the rules and regs within her registry and this is what she sent to me with regards to the future breeding / acceptance of her foals within the Trakehner Registry

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OK, I talked to the ATA guy and also reviewed our regulations.

We had a pilot program for several years under which purebred TB and Arab stallions could be inspected and approved for breeding to purebred mares. That program never extended eligibility to TB-Trakehner or Arab-Trakehner crosses; only purebred stallions, such as GG, were eligible.

A few years ago we voted to discontinue the pilot program, essentially making the program "permanent." Here is a copy of the explanation for that program under which TB and Arab stallions can be inspected and approved. It may be somewhat outdated; for example, now the minimum score for a stallion is 60 instead of 58 (out of a possible 10 in each of 8 scoring categories). But it is the general tune.

http://www.americantrakehner.com/faqs/FAQsPilotProgramStallions.htm

Historically, we have had very few applicants for this. The criteria are pretty tough (particularly performance record) and the market for ATA mares is pretty tight, so I think that discourages most owners of TB and Arab stallions. But the get of approved stallions (TB stallions Musing, Cloned Steel, Ambassador in Love, maybe another...and Arab stallions Aul Magic, Al Marah Quebec, Taez, and maybe another) out of unrestricted ATA Studbook (OSB) mares are eligible for registration in the Official Registry Book, and then for entry into the Official Stud Book upon inspection.

But now and as ever,

A colt

- by a Jockey Club stallion that has not been presented and approved by the ATA, and

- out of an ATA mare (regardless of the book of her registry--registration book or stud book)

is not eligible under the pilot program or our regulations and is not eligible for the Official Stud Book.

Such a colt would be registrable only under the ATA Appendix Book Section (B) (if the dam is an ATA Stud Book mare--OSB) or Section (D) (if the dam is an ATA registry book mare--ORB). In neither case is a colt eligible for transfer to the Official Stud Book.

This is precisely the situation that Tango is in--his sire is unapproved, though his dam is OSB, so he is not eligible for approval on his own right (under the pilot program) and is not eligible to move up from his current registration status, in the Official Appendix Book (B)

The outcome is different for fillies. A filly by a Jockey Club stallion out of an ATA OSB mare is registrable in the Official Appendix Book (B), and from there, fillies (but not colts) can move into the Preliminary Stud Book upon inspection. So that will be Dory's path.

Hope that helps. Clear as mud, eh?



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So - based on this, the Anglo Trakehner filly by my unapproved TB stallion, can be inspected as a 3 year old, move into the Preliminary Stud Book, then get bred to a Trakehner stallion and THAT foal will then get full Trakehner papers so there is a viable way to get TB blood into the European registries through the fillies

Is that just an ATA situation or would this not apply in Europe with the Trakehner registry there as well?

Also - lastly - I keep seeing the word "numpty" in some posts. What the HECK is a numpty???
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And what is S.S.H. as well please?

Thanks a bunch!
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Not wanting to clog up this thread by discussing eligibility to the different European Studbooks, I'll just give a short answer:

For ANY issue (out of a TV Main Book mare) of a thoroughbred stallion to be accepted into the Main Book of the EU Trakehner Verband the stallion must be TV approved. After this initial approval he MUST complete the 70-day test otherwise the temporary approval is revoked.

I am very surprised that a Trak.breeder would use a non-approved TB stallion (unless of course it is to get colour ... palomino DOES NOT exist in the pure Trak.breed!!), nevertheless this specific anglo-trak filly can after inspection go into the Preliminary Stud Book, and although her foal by an approved Trak stallion will get full papers, it will not be Main Book. The TV rule clearly states that a minimum of full 6 generations 'approved' Trakehner must be present to be eligible for Main-Book. The anglo-trak filly's foal's great-grandchild would be eligible.

There are any number of ways to get TB blood into the European WB Registries but if you want full papers in the Main Book of this WB Registries the TB sire MUST be fully approved by an EU Warmblood Studbook.

The ECHA is the European Coloured Horse Association, a mix breed association with a very good reputation, they accept cremello's. This is their site: www.echa-esv.de

The S.S.H. is the Scottish Sport Horse. This is their site: http://www.scottishsportshorse.org

Can't help you with numpty!!
 
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The S.S.H. is the Scottish Sport Horse. This is their site: http://www.scottishsportshorse.org

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I would have thought it was pretty unlikely that SSH would accept ECHA approval / grading as an atomatic overstamp / acceptable performance level for automatic stallion approval as the ECHA is not a WBFSH member studbook. But perhaps some of our Scots members might know more.

In the meantime it is possible that the no-cremello restriction might be lifted by WBS (there is a rules meeting to discuss this amongst other things in a couple of weeks time) but I understand that the SHBGB told Paul that they would not even consider looking at grading a cremello however good it was so definite colour predjudice still firmly in place there <sigh>
 
1. Numpty 732 up, 76 down
Scottish usage:
a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.

b) A good humoured admonition, a term of endearment

c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person
a) "No. That wisnae wit she meant, ya big numpty!"

b) i.e. "Silly billy", "You big dafty"

c) "That numpty's driving with no lights on!"
by cargo_4 May 20, 2004 share this
2. numpty 450 up, 107 down
A person who never has or never will have a f*ing clue what he is doing
Bobby Gould
by Nested One Oct 14, 2003 share this
3. numpty 257 up, 59 down
An idiot, a silly person
"You're going to look like a right numpty."

I would be a lot happier seeing one of these (Cremello/Perlinos) approved by say the TBF. I can see a huge benefit for the stallion owner, & perhaps the stud fee will double then. Sorry guys, just I dont see many of these stallions justifying their fees, I really dont.
 
Lol magic... I called someone a numpty today... in a very affectionate way of course... only for them to tell me that numpty is actually the Norwegian for numbskull... so I ended up feeling the numpty... whether they were telling the truth or not, I don't know but I thought you could add it to your numpty list!!

After looking at alot of the stallions, I do agree that imo some of them do not justify their fees but I have found 2 that I would use now...
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Oh well the search goes on, but I have another year so no rush. I would love to see one of the TB's graded though, that would add some value. I may have to see them in the flesh not sure photo' are doing them any justice.
 
The Alchemist xx is graded. He bred a lot of Warmblood and Trakehner mares in Germany. His foals were consistently premium awarded and have fabulous movement, excellent conformation and the most kind character. The breeders and also new owners of the foals are all very satisfied and happy.
 
In March 2006 RFF The Alchemist has been presented to the breed commission of the ZSAA, which is a German National Breed Association for Arabian, Anglo-Arabian, Thoroughbred and Partbred Sporthorses. The approval of this Organization is accepted by the other German National and Regional Breed Associations. RFF The Alchemist presentend himself so very well, he could achieve several scores above the needed score of 7. He scored an 8 in body conformation, correctness, overall impression, gallop and jumping. He now cannot only breed for full papered Thoroughbreds, but Anglo-Arabians and Warmbloods too.

He will be standing at stud to maximum 3 outside TB mares per season only!
If you want to breed a TB mare to him, book him early.

Stud fee for TB mares: 3000 Euro LFG
Stud fee for Trakehner mares: 2000 Euro LFG
Stud fee for Arabian mares: 1500 Euro LFG
Stud fee for WB mares: 1000 Euro LFG

If I used an Arab/AA or PBA with enough blood the offspring could be reg as PBA or AA (depending on the mare). If I used a Trakehner mare it would only be eligible for PB status, is that correct? Because he is not approved by the TBF? And what about the BWS if you used a mare approved/reg with them what status would the foal have? If I used a TB mare I take it that her offspring could run as a full TB not as an NTR.
 
Sorry Magic, I do not know your abreviations, can you please write in full what they mean?

The foals of The Alchemist got full main book WB papers for their breeders from Westfalen, Zweibruecken, ZfDP and others as the ZSAA approval is fully recognized by most all German Associations, except Hannover and Holstein as they have a closed studbook which they applied for some years ago and are now with a closed book such as the Trakehners. Which means a stallion must really be presented and approved to enter their books, when the others accept another approval. Oldenburg accepts outside stallions after they have finalized their performance test.

Since he HAS a valid German approval, a foal by him out of a Trakehner mare can be presented for the main Trakehner book once three years old. That is the way I am going with my Palomino filly out of a Trakehner mare.

The Trakehner stallion Angard for example was Hessen bred, had Hessen papers and was presented for approval in Hessen first, but he was fully Trakehner recognized bred and later taken over into the Trakehner books as he fulfilled the demands of approved stallions and mares and the Trakehner purebred book rules.

Once he has positively finalized his performance test, his foals can also get Trakehner papers directly on request of the breeder. Does this answer the questions? If not just ask.

Forgot: I had a buckskin filly last year out of a bay Arabian thoroughbred mare and it has Anglo-Arabian main book papers. Dam is a premium awarded mare even in the WB books and sire approved/The Alchemist, so it got full main book papers. This filly can also enter the Trakehner main book once three years old.
 
Ok, thank you. I knew AA, PBA and TB but not the rest and the NTR is what? I have no idea about the Trakehner Breeders Fraternity, I know only the Trakehner Verband of which I am a member since centuries.
 
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