Cross Country Thread!

Goldenstar

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OT rode beautifully on a horse he had ridden for a long time horses don’t come out at that level and perform again and again through fear they just don’t .
You have to give credit where it’s due he has upped his game ( again ) and looks providing he has the horse power the person most likely to knock MJ off his perch .
It’s going to fascinating watching these two very different personalities going at it for the next couple of years .
 

BBP

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I'm pretty confident this was her personal phone. I might be wrong but I saw the tablets they were given to record.
Sorry edited to add the horse and rider were on the floor and well she was going up to them to assist she was still recording.
Ah fair enough. Recording wouldn’t be my priority at that point. I had a horse break it’s leg on the course one year in front of me (I’m just a lowly crossing steward) so I’m just happy we got radios at every crossing this year, as on that occasion we had no radios and were out of sight of all fences so my pair had to run for help whilst I grabbed hold of the horse.
 
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Late to the party as usual but didn't start watching until 13.30ish. It was a very tough course wasn't it? However, it's the top of the game and I thought the comment about the use of frangible pins was interesting in that it enables the course builder to ask a more difficult question without necessarily compromising the safety of the horse and rider (they didn't say that but that is what I understood).
I'm no fan of CMP (would take Mike E-S as a course designer over him any day), but I feel like he relied too much on the use of frangible pins as "teaching" methods. Wide open oxers on twisty turns don't test anything useful other than to scare horses who manage to put legs down into them. Same thing with the gates (although WTF was Buck thinking by gunning at them...) and the trout hatchery. I know I'm armchair-ing it, but I think his courses are more designed to punish rather than educate. Too many horse falls yesterday to consider this a one-off - CMP is notorious for being completely unforgiving with his courses. It's like he can't figure out how to make courses that test and reward accuracy, stamina, and forward riding... it's all trappy fences on offset distances.

I do agree that the field was likely part of the issue, and many of the riders have what airline pilots call "get-home-itis." But we saw several very experienced, very good horse/rider combos that had major issues that can't be chalked up to being Burghley novices. The course could have been designed in a way that culled the field via refusals/runouts, not by horse falls and frangible pins being tripped at every other fence. A good course should the horse and rider in a safe manner - if they miss on accuracy, they'll have is a run-out, not a rotational fall or their horses's legs getting stuck between the rails of an oxer. It doesn't have to be "easy" to be safe, which is what i like about Mike E-S's courses... he tests them subtly so that they learn exactly where the holes in their training are without shaking their horse's confidence, and it rewards the ones who have their ducks in a row.
 

Bellaboo18

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Ah fair enough. Recording wouldn’t be my priority at that point. I had a horse break it’s leg on the course one year in front of me (I’m just a lowly crossing steward) so I’m just happy we got radios at every crossing this year, as on that occasion we had no radios and were out of sight of all fences so my pair had to run for help whilst I grabbed hold of the horse.
Probably a silly question but how do you get to steward? I bet it's an interesting day :)
 

fankino04

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I agree with you really, perhaps my historic dislike of the man is colouring my judgement. It was the nicest and most harmonious round I have ever seen him produce.
Maybe the large quantity of painkillers he was probably on takes the edge off him a bit, agree it was the nicest round I've seen him do but still can't bring myself to forgive his past.
 

lannerch

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I agreee with everything you said there. It will be interesting to see what Mark Philips says in defence of the Maltings. Also Ian Stark said that before pins you would not have an oxer on top of a drop, like at the Trout Hatchery. Horses don't know that though!

Also agree that Zara's fall was a very soft one and I bet she's livid.
I am in the fence about whether the maltings was a step too far , as the other side of the argument is there was a viable alternative route , maybe the blame could also be on the riders who should recognise that there horse rider combination was not going well enough or not experienced enough for the direct.
In most cases you could see the accident well before it happened .
 

BBP

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Probably a silly question but how do you get to steward? I bet it's an interesting day :)
Mostly it’s directing people to toilets and shops and XC fences, sometimes it’s rugby tackling loose dogs as they chase horses and then that very sad day it was hanging onto an adrenaline fuelled horse waiting for help as it’s leg hung off. I can’t even remember how we started! I’ve been doing it for over 10 years now. It’s organised by the Stamford X Round Table, my name is on their list with a local coordinator so each year I get asked if I want to do it again. I get free tickets and parking for all 4 days in exchange for stewarding for half a day. But it means days like yesterday, you can see very little actual XC. Thankfully yesterday I could see some of the maltings, Rolex and flight hanger from where I was...not that the maltings was any fun to watch! Wouldn’t have wanted to fence judge that one!
 

Tiddlypom

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In most cases you could see the accident well before it happened .
I haven’t seen the TV coverage yet, but several of those combinations which we saw winging it kamikaze style through the Trout Hatchery then had problems at The Maltings (was listening on the Burghley radio coverage).
You could predict it well in advance, I was surprised that the stewards allowed some combinations to get that far.
 

Clodagh

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OT rode beautifully on a horse he had ridden for a long time horses don’t come out at that level and perform again and again through fear they just don’t .
You have to give credit where it’s due he has upped his game ( again ) and looks providing he has the horse power the person most likely to knock MJ off his perch .
It’s going to fascinating watching these two very different personalities going at it for the next couple of years .
No way should MJ and OT be mentioned in the same sentence. To me MJ is perfection on a horse, he never moves in the saddle and watching him take that young mare round last year (I think last year and I think Burghley) in a snaffle and no martingale...he is amazing.
 

Goldenstar

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I haven’t seen the TV coverage yet, but several of those combinations which we saw winging it kamikaze style through the Trout Hatchery then had problems at The Maltings (was listening on the Burghley radio coverage).
You could predict it well in advance, I was surprised that the stewards allowed some combinations to get that far.
I don’t think stewards can stop riders or fence judges except after falls or in extreme circumstances like injury following a stop and that would be the vet as there’s a vet a each fence at this level.
It’s my understanding that only a member of the ground jury can stop a horse for dangerous riding .
It makes sense where would you find enough fence judges qualified or prepared to take that call .
 

Goldenstar

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PLEASE........ could some kind person direct me to where I might watch today's action on the telly???

I've had a peek and can't find anything on Freeview.

Red Button has nothing either!!

Please don't tell me I can't watch the action!! I don't have satellite or anything new-fangled.
I watched it again last night on iPlayer .
 

Goldenstar

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No way should MJ and OT be mentioned in the same sentence. To me MJ is perfection on a horse, he never moves in the saddle and watching him take that young mare round last year (I think last year and I think Burghley) in a snaffle and no martingale...he is amazing.
I disagree both are professionals .
Both have a lot of horses although Oli will deal more .
Both don’t move much .
And Oli while he might be MJ on the flat has transformed his approach to flat work he changed his whole position .
And Oli would have edge on MJ on getting a tune of horses trained outside his system
 
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Ohhh!!! Thank you!! Pour yourself a drink!! Or chocs, or both! Very grateful! I get my fix after all.

But please don't let it be bleddi Clare Balding commentating! That just might spoil my day.

Just been out with a friend for a Sunday-morning trot, horses mega good. Now gonna bung a pie in the oven, then go and finish off that bottle of Rose.....
 

milliepops

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PLEASE........ could some kind person direct me to where I might watch today's action on the telly???

I've had a peek and can't find anything on Freeview.

Red Button has nothing either!!

Please don't tell me I can't watch the action!! I don't have satellite or anything new-fangled.
you can replay the coverage of the morning SJ session on https://livestream.com/burghley/events/8799667/videos/196001103

(fast forward about 2 minutes). There were only 7 horses though.
 

splashgirl45

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what i found worrying is that some of the horses that really whacked the pole and broke the frangible pins just carried on.some of them had their forward movement stopped so it would have been a heavy blow to the most delicate part of the horse.. i would have been concerned that my horse had a serious injury and because of his high adrenaline he wouldnt show it. i found some of the riders very frightening to watch, i know everyone has to start somewhere but i wouldnt have wanted some of them jumping my horse over a cross pole let alone burghley...on the other hand a couple of the first timers rode very well and got round without too much trouble, just time penalties.
 

TPO

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Yesterday has me teetering in the edge of the rabbit hole about what we inflict on horses for our enjoyment...

The falls, the bits (hands!), the (tight) noseband, the spurs, the whips (Julia Norman stood out to me on bbc coverage) and the hard hits (mainly stifles and fetlocks) from solid fences. All for our enjoyment 😒 😬 🙈
 

MotherOfChickens

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Yesterday has me teetering in the edge of the rabbit hole about what we inflict on horses for our enjoyment...

The falls, the bits (hands!), the (tight) noseband, the spurs, the whips (Julia Norman stood out to me on bbc coverage) and the hard hits (mainly stifles and fetlocks) from solid fences. All for our enjoyment 😒 😬 🙈
glad I didn't watch it after reading this thread. who's MJ?
 

splashgirl45

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tries to watch the live stream for part 1 of the sj but it wouldnt work for me, watched the trot up instead, james sommerville and talent didnt pass....interesting how some of the riders held their horses head very tightly , i assume to hide the head bob!!!! ollie on the other hand had a completely loose rein and his horse looked fab....
 

milliepops

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Yesterday has me teetering in the edge of the rabbit hole about what we inflict on horses for our enjoyment...

The falls, the bits (hands!), the (tight) noseband, the spurs, the whips (Julia Norman stood out to me on bbc coverage) and the hard hits (mainly stifles and fetlocks) from solid fences. All for our enjoyment 😒 😬 🙈

I agree - I think this was partly a result of a slightly over egged course and partly a higher proportion than normal of riders outside their comfort zone though.
There were too many horse falls for me - that, I think is the job of the course designer, to build questions that are unlikely to punish a horse.
I guess there's a problem of making the event viable and therefore needing a certain number of combinations to come forward therefore raising the criteria to be eligible may not be possible?
 
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We were there yesterday and saw a few of the falls.

Bruce Davidson fall was horrible, his poor horse whinnied at them as if to ask how he was.
It was totally his error, came in too fast and flat. The rider that followed did it near enough perfect.

We saw Tim Price drop the back of the jump at the hatchery and that was definitely a heart on mouth moment.

The most scariest one was Savannah Fulton, we were right by the jump when they went over and the vets were so quick being there and the green screens went up.
We honestly thought the horse was going to be pts. It was such a relief to see both of them walking away.
 
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