Cruel or just horsemanship?

Actually if you watch again I feel that the handler did not "knee the horse in the ribs" but used his knee to "block" the horse as it was geting too close and curling in on him. - huge difference.

Not that I like to see this sort of thing but I didn't get the feeling that the horse was scared of his handler.
 
Plus as it's a wedding I'm guessing this isn't something the horse does 24/7.

All I can see is ignorance, racism and closed-mindedness.


Some people ey *rollseyes*
 
two questions nobody can really answer but food for thought.

1) How long do the horses perform for? I would find one 3 minute song less undesireable than an hour or two without break. Thee is a huge difference in doing those movements for a prolonged period of time on concrete and a good dressage trainer who will teach a horse by doing short lengths of time of said movement before letting horse stretch & relax, and doesn't ask for it all the time. If you have ever seen a Carl Hester demo you will know he doesn't train his horses in a "competiton outline" all the time, for example.

2) How often do they perform? Once a week? Once a day? Once a year?
 
Its actually very lucrative in the Punjab to own a dancing horse, they are booked for weddings and other auspicious occasions. Its considered good luck, an also a bit of an ego thing, like hiring posh wedding cars...the better the horse the more it costs to hire, and the more your guests and business associates are impressed
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I would also have asumed that as with any comercial venture which depends on the horse being sound (Funeral horses, sedding carriage horses etc) that it would be in the handlers best interests to keep the horse in good condition. The horse is not emmaciated, unlike pictures we have seen on this forum recently, has no weight on its back as it performs these movements and is probably the main source of income for the handler. I do find some of the comments on this thread to be decidedly racist. I also thought that RandomRache was suggesting that horse should not be used, which would put rather a stop to this forum
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From what I have seen of most of the Egyptian and Pakistani/Punjabi dancing horses, they don't seem terribly unhappy at all. The Mexican (and Mexican derived) Charro horses on the other hand all look scared/jaded/upset.

I hope my comments were not construed as being racist, I got the Punjabi info off my friend who is a Sikh (it was his cousins wedding video that I saw). He does a lot of work for the Temple in Scunny, and one of his friends there was trying to locate a dancing horse for his daughters wedding...apparently there is one in North Shields and supposedly one in Dudley of all places! but the costs were too much...I'd love to know if anyone on here near those areas have heard of or seen these dancing horses.

I will stick by my comment re charro 'though, painful to watch....cultural thing or not.
 
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I don't like it. I think the horse looks scared and that to me speaks volumes. I can't imagine that the training was kind. I also think that the stick he was holding may have a concealed spike in the end.
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That is pure speculation. You have absolutely no proof that what you say is the case, but you think and imagine. Not good enough, I'm afraid. Just because something doesn't sit easily with you, doesn't make it cruel.
 
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Horrid

Go onto youtube and search for 'how we train horses in egypt' they whip them to do that. Its learned helplessness.

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Learned helplessness exists in the UK and other countries as well. Horses are whipped in the UK and other countries as well. Sometimes (and I don't mean this personally) the British are VERY blinkered as to what goes on in the 'rest of the world' versus the UK.
 
I enjoy watching the dancing horses, especially love Marwardi's

Remember this is done in Pakistan, India, Egypt and other countries as well as Mexico. What you see in one you cannot apply to all.

The dancing horse is valued, it is not a riding animal. As for the horses condition I don't think it looked bad, better than a fat happy hacker.

I liked the way the handler awarded the horse more than once with a stroke. Its interesting how people see a horse with engaged ears and assumes it looks scared.

This video has come up on this forum before.

Heaven forbid its different because its foreign.

 
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A horse is born a unhandled, untouched, wild animal that's something called a FACT unlike your stupid allegations!

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It is NOT wild. It is a domesticated animal. Domestication takes place over GENERATIONS of breeding. Cows, sheep, dogs, cats, goats, and so forth are domesticated. This is ENTIRELY different to lions, tigers, bears, foxes, zebras etc who even when bred in captivity remain WILD animals... do you see a distinction?
 
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I have to say, I am actually quite surprised at some of the comments passed since I left earlier. I would agree that some of them, if not verging on racism, are decidedly highly ignorant.
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Wowww, that was alott off huff.

i'm certainly not racist im quarter indian, so have some indian family
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so therefore as i'm 100% judging on the way the horse is treated and i still dont agree, it certainly is NOTHING like parelli, except the praising the horse after he's done something good and being able to move the horse away from body language. But as this post has nothing to do with parelli...
It isnt the worst i've seen horses been treated and when competing we all see worse in our own country.
I just dont like it, i dont like the way the horse is tense, how his feet are long, how he looks like he needs a good meal and how the knee boots dont propperly protect the horses legs nor are the horses tendons etc protected.
 
Your all throwing racism around as if you know what it means?!?

Rasism:
A belief that inherent differences determine cultural or individual achievement.
Believing ones own race is superior to another and has the right to rule others.
Or hatrid or intolerance of another race.

The word race isn't the same as culture. I'm not racist, I just don't agree with that part of the culture. N before you say it i don't believe my race to be superior to theirs.

Also, I don't get the fact that alot of have said 'well, theres nothing wrong with it but i wouldnt want to see or do it' That would usually mean there is some part of you that doesnt agree with it. Like for instance you wouldn't jump on hard ground but you don't mind if other people do, meaning you don't personally agree with it.
 
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A horse is born a unhandled, untouched, wild animal that's something called a FACT unlike your stupid allegations!

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It is NOT wild. It is a domesticated animal. Domestication takes place over GENERATIONS of breeding. Cows, sheep, dogs, cats, goats, and so forth are domesticated. This is ENTIRELY different to lions, tigers, bears, foxes, zebras etc who even when bred in captivity remain WILD animals... do you see a distinction?

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Thank you PF, that was what I was trying to say only less elloquently.
 
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i see this has turned into the usual "adult" debate we regularly see on here!!!!

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[/ QUOTE ] Ah, dear forum, how i've missed you
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......as for the video, I see nothing that constitutes cruelty, regardless of some of the (ridiculous) comparisons being made. We do not know anything of the training methods employed to train this particular animal, and i can't see how cries of "cruelty" can be made based on a relatively short piece of film.
 
I agree P/fritta that you get learned helpnessless everywhere and I object to it whether it is in the UK or not.

I also disagree with Rollkur in dressage.
 
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are you actually STANDING on your pony's back, RR??

food for thought, eh?

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That not cruelty, doesn't harm her, didn't have to train her in any sort of way.
 
I've been called an ignorant, narrow minded, racist who shouldn't own animals and probably owns some wild, crazy beast of a horse because i don't agree with it. Your also narrow minded in the fact that you can't even begin to see just a little bit mine or others view that don't agree with it. You see just one side to the arguement n think you are correct just like i do but it didnt result in me personally insulting any of you. Ok, so i thought that he was kneeing the horse in the side which is where cruelty come in but i now agree it was too strong but it still doesn't change my view on agreeing with it and that doesn't make me some sort of horrible person.
 
I didn't see anything untoward, but then Im very accepting of other cultures, the horse looked well kept and was being smoothed more often than I smooth my horse when doing dressage etc.
Bigger fish to fry in my mind Im afriad!!
 
If you read some of your posts back to yourself and then read the replies to them you may see why people have posted the things they have. Your definition of racism is one (by the way it is courteous to mention where your references are taken from) definition, there are others. You appear to be quite young and this may be why you are taking the comments quite so personally. Your argument re domesticated versus wild animals is not particularly coherent and appears to contradict your lifestyle choices.
 
The comments towards me were personal?!? which is the reason they were taken that way. The definition is taken from a dictionary(obv.! I can go find out which one if your really like) and in my arguement on domesticated versus wild animals i was trying to make my point that it doesnt really make a difference i just don't like it either way. I'm not contradicting myself either I'm not saying horses should be left alone, wild and things along that line and yes i was standing on my horse but it isn't the pressure that may cause injury, strains and no sort of training was involved. In fact have only done that once about 3 years ago and someone else took the photo(obviously) and yes i am young(ish) which is maybe why i am set on not changing my mind on this matter.
 
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