Cruel or just horsemanship?

I made no comment about your standing on your horse. However if you read your posts as if you were another person reading them, you may find where some of the confusion (if that is the case) comes from. Some of your phrases do not make sense. You don't like what? either way? (what ways do you mean?) If you perhaps took a little more time to read your posts back to yourself you might save a lot of confusion and reduce the amount of animosity towards yourself. By the way I maintain that the horse is not being treated in a cruel manner and that the assumptions made about the training methods do suggest an incipient racism.
 
"You don't like what? either way? (what ways do you mean?)"

The original post where the wild v domesticated animals came in was about horse dancing and bear dancing and others said completely different because bears are wild and i said i view it in the same sort of way whether wild animals or domesticated.

"By the way I maintain that the horse is not being treated in a cruel manner and that the assumptions made about the training methods do suggest an incipient racism."

I already said that cruelty(which is what my 1st thought was) was too strong a word after i was corrected about the horse being kneed in the side, which when i viewed 1st time it seemed that way and made me a little sad when i thought that and when i question how other people thought these horses were trained as i'd seen how it was done in other countries it was actually a question not an assumption.

P.S hope this one makes sense to you.
 
That post makes perfect sense
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While I may well continue to disagree with you, I feel that I am disagreeing with a well thought out argument, rather than knee jerk uninformed rant. (I'm NOT saying that your other posts were that, just came across that way). Sorry if I came across a bit ranting before and possibly patronising now, but it really does help if you slow down with posting.
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I wasn't offended by your posts at all as you didnt bring it to personal comments like some of the others. I think I was just answering from the posts i was reading and probably not properly explaining what i meant to those of you weren't involved in my comments and answers from the start and also understanding things i'm saying differently to others. I don't really know how it changed to the wild v domestic animals but all i meant by adding in the bear dancing was that it is also part of a culture but i dont agree with that either. Sorry I've probably completely confused you again now lol it makes sense to me as i understand what i meant in the 1st place. I suppose then we agree to disagree on this one yorks.
 
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are you actually STANDING on your pony's back, RR??

food for thought, eh?

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That not cruelty, doesn't harm her, didn't have to train her in any sort of way.

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Do you realise how absurd that statement is? If it doesn't require training it's not cruel?
I happen to believe that you standing on your horses created 2 very significant pressure points. I believe you could quite easily have bruised her back putting your full weight on these 2 points. (not the same as sitting on a saddle) but hey, that's just my opinion.
And you may not be racist, but you show signs of being extremely xenophobic; it's foreign, you don't understand it, it's not familiar, therefore it's probably not very nice.
 
No i'm not saying it is ok because it doesn't require training. I meant its not like i would be training her to do that so wouldn't have done it often it was actually just once. My full weight of what was not even 7 stone at the time and like i said it was about 3/4 years ago and i was 15 at the time i didnt really think about it that way then although i do obviously understand that now.
 
And yes xenophobic is a more appropriate word, thank you. I might be narrow minded and set in what i believe is correct or not but i'm certainly not racist at all.
 
Ok, I'm willing to accept that... but you do see how it could look right? And you see how something that might not look right or is unfamiliar might not necessarily be cruel?
It's very hard (and unwise, IMO) to form a definitive opinion on something as one-sided as a video clip of a horse performing.
Anyhoo, that's my bit said. Nothing personal; I think it's very commendable that you have concerns and of course you're pefectly entitled to your opinion
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I realise that now but as i said i didnt like the horse being kneed in the side and that is where cruelty came in but i was corrected that he wasnt actually kneeing it just moving it over with his knee because it was too close(it doesnt make sense to me but its not like it's impossible) and then i said that cruel was too harsh a word(twice)
 
That's what i thought, it was very harsh after the horse had already been doing the 'dancing' for 3/4 minutes and was probably a bit wound up but then someone else said he didnt knee it??
 
I thought he kneed it most definitely, but that said I wouldn't want a horse that wound up too close to me and a knee in the guts certainly isn't the end of the world and for animals I have seen sustain significant kicks in the field, I shouldn't imagine it hurt so much as directed it. It doesn't make it right but lets keep it in perspective, kneeing a horse in the side does not feel the same as a human getting kneed in the side...
 
Are you talking about where I've put 2 posts 1 after the other? That was because i was replying to different posts so was reading a post and replying, then reading another post and replying to that. Or did you mean something else?
 
I didn't like watching it. At all. BUT I can see both sides of the debate..
I personally would call it cruel. But, I also think making horses jump 1m40 tracks on hard ground is cruel. I honestly think a horse would rather jump 1m40 tracks on hard ground than dance infront of people though.. JMO. I would like to know how they were trained though.
 
I think it's safe to disregard niagaradevals thought on this matter of cruelty since she believe's pelly's painfully thin wormy chestnut mare is in no way being neglected!
 
S..
some of your replies are very personal, do you intend for them to come across so bitchy?
Although i do agree that pellys mare looked awful i don't think we should 'disregard' anyone, even though it makes absolutely no sense for her to see this a cruelty but not the case of the skinny, wormy mare
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I think the original clip of the dancing horses was a bit cruel, no need for the knees in the horses side and no need for the preson on the sidelines hitting the horse, i also think that making a horse kneel on a hard surface is both cruel and ignorant.
 
ok

1) Horse had knee boots on
2) Horse is performing on concrete, but unless I'm mistaken we haven't had springs fitted under roads yet
3) It wasn't a full on oh my god call the police kick in the side as whoever it is (racist ignorant cow...) up there has been going on and on about omg lolz. Shut up. It was a nudge, no more than you use when riding the horse, no more than the SPANISH RIDING SCHOOL use with horses.
4) Horse was not underweight. FFS.
5) Horse was praised often.
6) as has been said - these horses are the owners livelihood, they can't afford to be killing a horse every 3 months.


But most of all OMGZ dey r foregnerz an so wel cant no how 2 luk afta a horse LOLZZZ. Idiots.

Oh and 7) Don't stand on a horses back, at least put a bloody hat on.



*continues to rant*

PLUS you're changing your argument, do you REALLY want me to go back a few pages where your posts were full of hatred and spite, in caps lock about how DISGUSTING and cruel and harsh and thoughtless, how he was KILLING this horse. Stop changing your tune, and accept when you're just being ignorant.
 
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ok

1) Horse had knee boots on
2) Horse is performing on concrete, but unless I'm mistaken we haven't had springs fitted under roads yet
3) It wasn't a full on oh my god call the police kick in the side as whoever it is (racist ignorant cow...) up there has been going on and on about omg lolz. Shut up. It was a nudge, no more than you use when riding the horse, no more than the SPANISH RIDING SCHOOL use with horses.
4) Horse was not underweight. FFS.
5) Horse was praised often.
6) as has been said - these horses are the owners livelihood, they can't afford to be killing a horse every 3 months.


But most of all OMGZ dey r foregnerz an so wel cant no how 2 luk afta a horse LOLZZZ. Idiots.

Oh and 7) Don't stand on a horses back, at least put a bloody hat on.



*continues to rant*

PLUS you're changing your argument, do you REALLY want me to go back a few pages where your posts were full of hatred and spite, in caps lock about how DISGUSTING and cruel and harsh and thoughtless, how he was KILLING this horse. Stop changing your tune, and accept when you're just being ignorant.

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WTF?? I haven't said anything to you so whats your bloody problem?

1. as i already said i didn't realise that the horse had knee boots on.
2. i wasnt the only person to comment about the horse being 'nudged'(as you put it) in the side.
3. i didnt say the horse was underweight.
4. i also already said that it was good the horse was praised often.
5. If you'd actually read my post explaining about me standing on my horse maybe you might bloody understand i said i was young and it was a bloody stupid thing to do and re the hat if i get injured that is my problem not yours.
My arguement changed because i was corrected on a couple of things and that is why i changed it accordingly but still said i was against it and if you read my post properly i didn't in any way say that he was killing his horse or call it disgusting or be particularly spiteful.

** edited- the horse they made kneel down at the end of the video didn't have knee boots on.**
 
Those horses definatly DO NOT have knee boots. They have something on the front legs, but more around the fetlocks than the knees. One has red tassels on its knees the others have nothing. The one being made to kneel has nothing on his knees at all just some leather strap just above his fetlock.

Are we not all entitled to our own oppinion without being shot down in flames?
 
I know slag me off and when i answer back she don't even have the curtesy to answer me. I'm not asking for her to keep a constant eye on it and answer as soon as i write but an answer would be good.
 
Re the knee boots, there was a post earlier in the thread stating where in the video you can clearly see the knne boots. It looks like the horse is wearing the road style boots that have both a top strap and anhoring strap. I imagine this horse performs quite regularly and it's knees would not hold up to this if it didn't have protection on, as said before this is probably the handlers main source of income so I imagine he would want to provide the best protection possible
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RR I'm sorry if you find my post bitchy, I don't tone my personality down for this forum and I don't think anyone should. I am disregarding anything niagaraduval says from now on as I just can't see eye to eye with someone who defends neglect. I also thought I should bring it to other posters attention that this user had advocated the skinny wormy mare.

Scribbles - you summed up the main points of the arguement well and maybe more forcefully than other posters
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but I'm not sure if I translated all the text speak correctly, I'm a bit old for that language
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silver i thought you and scribbles were the same person then as i said i found some of the stuff you said bitchy and just after that got an awful response from her/ him
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Nope not the same person
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I didn't think Scribbles was attacking you I thought it was Brambleyhedge TBH, then again it maybe that Scribbles just read through the who back and forth arguement and felt the need to rant
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I get that sometimes and it's not generally directed at one posted but at the whole attitude of a group of people. Try not to take things to personally, we all have different opinions and it's supposed to be fun/educational to discuss them.
 
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