Crufts 2018

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RTE - see esters point, you haven’t factored in your time!

 

[ihatework]

From my recent experiences looking for a puppy to be a family pet, the designer mongrel and unregistered dog market are pushing up the prices. I saw designer mongrels going for £800 with no health testing and border collies from untested unregistered parents going for £500-750. I followed up on these ads and it seems like none have problems selling their puppies at these prices. So it’s understandable to me that those breeders who carefully select lines for optimum health and who health check their dogs, who raise them on good diets and socialise them well, would think they deserve a better return than the ‘I have two nice dogs who could make pretty babies together’ breeders.

I made a decision when buying my dog that I did not want to reward breeders who put no thought into health testing. One breeder who owned both the notch and dog told me that temperament was the most important thing, to which I replied that temperament is very important to me, but I wanted to minimise the risks of my lovely tempered dog suffering from hip dysplasia, eye issues or epileptic fits and so I would not be buying her puppy. Those same 9 puppies have all sold for £500 each. The two parent dogs came from an ‘agent’ who ‘sources’ border collie puppies from welsh farms. There is little traceability on these dogs and for all I know the two dogs are closely related.

So whilst my dog cost more than I had expected to spend, I know that he is from lines with no known history of epilepsy, they are all DNA clear of genetic conditions, hip scored, eye tested. The breeder breeds for the love of it, she only has 2 bitches who are part of her family and the bitch will have no more than 3 litters in her life. She only had 3 puppies in her last litter. To sell 3 good quality puppies at £500 each, vaccinated and microchipped and kept for 10 weeks does not generate much profit or money to reinvest in the dogs, so she charged a higher price. I made a decision to pay it to support a breeder who is doing things the way I would want them done. Fortunately for me, I have ended up with a dogs who’s temperament is incredible, and if I had known just how fantastic a temperament he had I would have paid more (if I had the money!!)

Well said & this is exactly how it should be in a perfect world

 

[paddy555]

I could get an ethically bred show or working pup from health tested, well performing parents for less than £1000 or the equivalent in euro elsewhere, but having slept on it I do appreciate there may be regional differences!!
If people are happy to pay that sort of money and upwards, then I suppose people will charge, even though it may make me a little uneasy.

I know of females who get bred year on year and (yuck) back to back (in my own breed and others, females can have two seasons in a year) and they don't look particularly happy to me. I personally find it abhorrent. Please don't ask me to explain myself lol, I can't put into someone else's head what I can see with my own eyes.

I expect you probably could get a shepherd pup cheaper, probably so could MM however both of you obviously have considerable background knowledge, know where to go and the right people. For amateurs like me we simply don't have the connections.

Most GSD pups I found (and I looked for a very long time) were around £850 -£1100. I think I did find the £3000 one! I actually paid £950 and it has been worth it so far. My pup's litter (a private breeder not a kennel) could have been sold 3 or 4 times over so haggling on price was not an option. Her next litter I think is already spoken for but I doubt she will be bred for another year. I can't speak for the rest of the UK but in S England there is a high demand for quality pups so people have no problem selling at £1000. Many other breeds seem equally expensive.

I was amazed at my journey through the relatively simple task of find a GSD pup. I had no idea breeders bred back to back registering only half of their litters, bred from very young bitches, bred from a seriously lame stud dog. No idea how unscrupulous some were, had no idea how they bred from stock with previous litters with high scores. Had no idea they would breed from their own stock with high scores. I very nearly gave up and walked away as I didn't trust anyone in the end.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I know I'll regret asking this, but what's considered to be a fair price for a standard poodle these days? Let's pretend that I'm asking for a friend and not wavering in my determination never to own another dog after my current chap goes.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I know I'll regret asking this, but what's considered to be a fair price for a standard poodle these days? Let's pretend that I'm asking for a friend and not wavering in my determination never to own another dog after my current chap goes.

Two days with no replies, gosh, you're an uninformative bunch at times! Not to worry, I had a good nosy around and found the answer for myself - about £700 to £950, so essentially equal to one winter's worth of hay or haylage. Hmm. I actually reckon that's okay, all things considered. I'm going to see about opening an ISA to save up for one as my next dog. Hopefully it will be at least five years before I really need to start looking for a breeder. Still can't believe that my beloved collie will be seven this summer, where does the time go? NB I shan't have another collie after him because I'd forever be comparing them, which wouldn't be fair on the future dog or healthy for me.

 

[Moobli]

i really hope the lady who bred my pup made a profit. From the amount of work she put in she certainly deserved to. She did everything correctly so she won't have made as much as someone who didn't do health checks, good food and all the rest of it but I hope she came out of it OK. If she didn't then she is almost subsidising me having a dog.

A litter of say 8 pups is £8000. Surely there is profit to be made even if it is all done correctly. If those are quality, tested pups what is wrong with profit?
It is not profit that is the problem but people breeding from poor quality animals and that applies to horses as well. Then there is the public who don't carry out the necessary checks to get as healthy a dog as possible.

This reflects most closely how I feel about dog breeding. I have no problem at all with breeders making a profit on their litters if they are well bred (through health testing, sporting achievements, working ability etc), the pups are well reared (quality food, regular worming, start of the socialisation process for pets and to a lesser extent working dogs) and the breeder genuinely cares where their pups go and offer back up for life if needed. I do not condone breeders who churn out litter after litter PURELY for profit with no health testing done, no regard for where pups end up etc.