CS and Fig competition update!

Fab pics as always both of you... shame about the whoopsie and gutted we missed you at Abbey, PS! Saw your name up on the score board on the Sunday and wondered what had happened :/ Will be along to watch at Hartpury as so local ;)
 
Nothing useful to add re: his piggish behaviour other than he is a Pig. Albeit a rather clean, good looking one. But he's a top pig.

Hope you get to the bottom of it, or that he grows out of it at this level.

Both looking scrummy as always, and I think those scores will be easy for you two to beat next time anyway! xxx
 
vet booked for 14th April as he needs his jabs around then but would pref to have them AFTER the winters as he can get sore/stiff from it (even between front legs).

i suppose no point panicking to get the blood test done sooner(and thus add another call out fee on to it already) as whatever could be wrong, has been wrong a long time if it IS hormonal.

it would be an easy, albeit expensive, cure, if he was a rig i guess.

he's on easy transition work tonight anyway so will see how he feels.
 
I'm now imagining a ninja-eel-shark in a bling fleece. This image isn't completely making sense to me as yet. :confused:

I'm sure this obstacle, like others before it, will be overcome. :)
 
Does he do the same in a snaffle? I don't know his full history (I know he's an ex racer), so sorry if that already been ruled out.

I hope you can get him sorted, you were doing so well.
 
yes, exactly the same in a snaffle :)

he was absolutely horrendous last night,napping in to the corners, pushing me up against the fence and then refusing to move/threatening to explode if asked to move.

he started a new ulcer supp last thur and i suspect its not helping him/is actually making things worse so we have stopped that. It wouldnt be the first time that something that should on paper help, has actually upset him.

he did then give the game up and work nicely and never thought about doing it again-just did esy transitions etc.

i wish he could explain why we have to go through it only for him to then be foot perfect.
 
I've had nothing to add so far expect they’re both so pretty and you do so well with them.

However it’s interesting that you have started a new ulcer supplement and he’s got worse. Do you think this could be the pattern? You try something new or make a subtle change and this is what upsets him? Whether it is a management change, asking more of him with the harder movements or the tests getting harder creating a bit more stress for him? Why did you change if you don’t mind me asking.

When the vet comes would it be worth re-scoping him to see what’s going on, or is his problem more in the hind gut? Sorry all this could be useless waffle, but you do so well persevering with him fingers crossed you get him figured out!

x x
 
How annoying that he's still being a little sod, I really admire you for sticking with it. Congratulations with Fig too - it's amazing how much stronger he's getting.

Pea is obviously a rather sensitive horse, I was wondering if he is literally sensitive. What does his skin look like? I'm only asking because of what you said about rug changing, it sounds like he could be a bit uncomfortable. Kind of like when you have PMT and your pain threshold turns to zero and you get physically very sensitive. Probably just one of the hundreds of things you will have heard saying "well have you tried this" but as he's suddenly got a lot worse, maybe the ulcer supplement isn't entirely agreeing with him.
 
Firstly, I have to say I really admire your determination and how far you have come with this horse. I always think the trickier horses give you far more pleasure when things go right as you have had to work hard to get it and it feels a bigger achievement.

I haven't read all the threads so this has probably been looked at before but have you had his back x-rayed. I can't help but notice similarities between him and my old boy who had kissing spines. I treated him first for ulcers but I think they were just caused by the pain from his back. He was also hyper sensitive and would react to virtually nothing. He also didn't like rugs being changed and got to the point I could get a reaction from him just by putting a weight tape on him. Might be worth just ticking it off the list for peace of mind.
 
My horse has just had problems with her Sacroiliac Joint and had actually tipped her pelvis slightly. She was sound on trot ups flexion tests etc but was showing signs of stress ridden and I just knew she wasnt quite right. Got physio out thinking she had some tight muscles and she found pain in the stifle area, long story short I arranged for Vet to come out with a view to x raying stifle but he diagnosed the SI pain. Her pelvis was only a few mm out but it has had a huge knock on effect on her body. So even although he is sound a physical issue is still possible.

Also in a lot of photos I see of him he has a lot of tension in his face even though he is performing very well, another issue that has just been picked up on my horse along side the SI probs (which are recent, she slipped in the field) is TMJ pain. In hind sight this has been ongoing with mine for a while unfortunately but had never been picked up, worth looking into.

One more thing have you actually had him scoped to know what type or grade of ulcers he has, he may need antibiotics along with the GG? He is such a beautiful horse I hope you can continue to help him.
 
AlexHyde said:
I've had nothing to add so far expect they’re both so pretty and you do so well with them.
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Apercrumbie said:
Congratulations with Fig too - it's amazing how much stronger he's getting.
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Thank you :)

I'll let PS chime in re: everyone's suggestions, but really appreciate your help guys!

We had our GP rider friend come over today. They were both super well behaved :)

Homework is as follows:

Fig needs to be more softer, more supple, more elastic and more through in the back (which will enable him to be more expressive in his work). He is capable of holding tension in his back due to his nature, but whether this is also a throwback to his racings days who knows. Our recent saddle issues probably don't help but the good news is that my new headplate arrived and was fitted today and will be picked up tomorrow!!! Woohoo!!!!!

With Pea, it is the contact. Is the contact iffy because he is behind the leg? Or is he behind the leg because the contact is iffy? Chicken and egg situation. BUT PS needs to work on keeping 'a' contact at all times (except when he is belly flashing). It must be a consistent theme to his work, he must always be working into the hand. We can work on the quality at a later date.

They both have supplements to try, which will help with their general well being. So be interesting to see how they get on with those :)
 
Stunning as always both of you! Fig looking like a totally different horse these days he's looking fab.
Where are your stocks from both of you? I'm after a decent quality one. Are they ready-tied? :)
 
skiltek0 said:
Stunning as always both of you! Fig looking like a totally different horse these days he's looking fab.
Where are your stocks from both of you? I'm after a decent quality one. Are they ready-tied? :)
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Thanks :) Both ready tied yep. Mine is from Flying Changes and PS got hers from Jax Designs.
 
just a few things-the horse had been scoped and did have a KS work up as a 4/5yo. so a while ago but as th symptoms have decreased since then (ie rears less and is an easier ride) i would be suprised to suddenly find he is riddled with either.

that said, i am contemplating repeating both albeit i HATE the starvation period for scoping and think it can give a false positive result in its self.

Vet has already mentioned antibiotics for hind gut ulcers but i will discuss in greater detail in person :)

He did exhibt some TMJ pain at his last but one appt with his *bodyworker* (i always shorten it to chiro but in reality she does muscles, nerves and joints!) but nothing awful. She worked on him and i have some manual flexions to do daily and it was nearly gone by his next appt.

The lesson yesterday was very interesting-trainer said he has learnt to give a very set selection of responses to my Q (ie go forward) and its almost liek hes half way through his *set* routine before ive even finished asking the Q.
My job is to present him with a slightly diff Q to get the desired response, that i can then praise the hell out of.
so when he slams to a halt,keep the contact at all costs and instead of just kicking forward against him kicking back at me, move the shoulder to make him step to the side-and praise. then ask for forward and if no joy, sideways, and praise etc.
make him think about his answer until the right response is habit i suppose.
she did say he's a tricky customer and that she didnt feel it was physical, he's big and strong and healthy etc.

so will see if this approach yields improvement over next few weeks. will still get bloods pulled as planned. and see where we are then.

the ulcer supp he started last week i def do not think helped and that has been knocked on the head :)
 
yes. showed nothing except a few very small muscular issues, nothing out of the ordinary for a horse in hard work.
again its something im willing to repeat if the vet thinks its worth it as its not that ££££.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
yes. showed nothing except a few very small muscular issues, nothing out of the ordinary for a horse in hard work.
again its something im willing to repeat if the vet thinks its worth it as its not that ££££.
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This is something I am considering with mine after her treatments are finished to check for any lingering little hot spots. I agree about the starvation for scoping, I wouldnt choose to scope unless it was really necessary either. It can be so frustrating doing so much and not just quite getting it, but I am sure you will get it cracked. Its these sensitive horses that we get the most from even if it is an emotional roller coaster ride!
 
How do you get a false positive with an endoscope? Hind gut ulcers I can understand but not for stomach ulcers. Granted, you might go through the starvation period only to find out that there are no ulcers (in the stomach at least) but at least you can then rule it out.
 
How is he normally in terms of 'rigginess' (for want of a better word)? There is definitely something in the air for the more 'hormone-tuned' types at the moment, and might explain why his opinions are stronger than ever ?

A friend took her gelding and and another livery's horse (who is known to pretty riggy and stallion like on occasion) out showjumping on Sunday - they got the ramp down to find her gelding totally mauled, bite marks all over head and neck, and a whacking haematoma on his hip - which we guess was him trying to get away. The two have travelled together regularly over the last couple of years, but the 'riggy' one decided that he didn't like it anymore. Is also a bit of an argumentative s0d under saddle - incredibly opinionated.
 
he is normally quite *riggy*- he definately notices mares in the warm up etc albeit is not obviously upset by them, doesnt call or nap to them particularly but could not be trusted to be turned out with one!

handling wise he has always been prone to PITA outbursts either turning out (when he will nip at your elbow) or coming in when he will sometimes rear-he reminds me of badly behaved colts TBH, despite none of us taking any of his jive, and him being reprimanded and made to back away out our space. It doesnt escalate, he just persists in doing it every so often.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
he is normally quite *riggy*- he definately notices mares in the warm up etc albeit is not obviously upset by them, doesnt call or nap to them particularly but could not be trusted to be turned out with one!

handling wise he has always been prone to PITA outbursts either turning out (when he will nip at your elbow) or coming in when he will sometimes rear-he reminds me of badly behaved colts TBH, despite none of us taking any of his jive, and him being reprimanded and made to back away out our space. It doesnt escalate, he just persists in doing it every so often.
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Sounds quite colty, like you say. Is it worth trying Rigcalm or something along those lines? I think they're comp legal.
 
tried rigcalm (as had some on yard for Brucey) it made no diff sadly which is annoying as it REALLY works on Bruce who is just friendly flirty, never nasty.

also tried agnust castus on its own which had zero impact too :(

sorry to be defeatist, if anyone has another other reccomendation for rig supplements i would be willing to try them? is the valerian free natural horse supplies one any good?
 
PS I don't know how you feel about this as I know he's expensive but have you considered asking Richard Maxwell to take a peek at him? He's done some body work on mine (which was amazing!) & he works v closely with my trainer & has had some amazing results with a very tricky horse.
I can't remember where you are in the country (midlands?) but he does come to my trainer's yard here in Suffolk, I'm wondering if we could squeeze you in with him to make it a sensible cost?
 
Im Leics based and yes I would consider it.

The lesson we had on wed was based around Andrew McLean philosophies i think so i think my plan will probably be:

Continue with new methods as above until vet comes to take bloods (14th April with Jab)
If not improved at all even a smidge in that time i will try Catembi's OTC mix for ulcers whilst awaiting results.

If NOT a rig and no improvement at all from new drugs or new training and Vet has no no ideas, i will look at trying Richard. My only reservation about that would be that i know he will be able to send the horse forward on a loose contact, the problem arises when the horse has to sit and collect and work-im not sure how much RM will be able to adress the contact and whether the contact causes the tantrum or the tantrum upsets the contact etc?

I have zero experience with him personally though, what do you reckon?

EVERYONE who sees the horse, either close friends, pro's, or total strangers, seems to feel its behavioural rather than physical, i do feel im groping around in the dark a bit atm!!!!
 
Scrabbling around for ideas here, obviously, as you have already tried so many things. Might he respond to a complete holiday for a month, or longer?

And was there nothing at all on the back xrays taken at 4/5 for the kissing spines work up you mentioned?

I hope the bloods will give you some answers, you must be totally frustrated by this behaviour.
 
I haven't read all of the replies and you may do this already. Here where I am at my yard in Calif no one takes their competition horses out in the trailer without giving them ulcer guard a few days before the show and on the day of the show as they think even if no ulcers a little bit of stress can cause excess acid production and uncomfortableness. It is probably just the step up and a small dip in confidence at the new level but that could cause a physical stress reaction and if he does get prone to ulcers a few notches of ulcer guard on the run up to his next test could help?
 
Just having a read through this thread to catch up with your latest adventures and thought Id just add my thoughts. Im nowhere near as good a rider as you and would have long since cried off with such a tricky customer but have always thought he is an absolutely stunning looking horse, very stalliony (new word). Do you know when he was gelded (sorry if youve already covered that). He does look as if he has an attitude that could be quite colty and it wouldnt surprise me if that is quite a big part of his issues. He just has that look on his face sometimes, the look of a horse that has a very definite mind of his own.
 
joycec said:
Scrabbling around for ideas here, obviously, as you have already tried so many things. Might he respond to a complete holiday for a month, or longer?

And was there nothing at all on the back xrays taken at 4/5 for the kissing spines work up you mentioned?

I hope the bloods will give you some answers, you must be totally frustrated by this behaviour.
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No nothing, not a hint of KS. He can't have a total holiday as he had locking stifles as a baby ( clear of OCD just ligament related) so needs to stay fit. He does get breaks during the year when I go on hol and NMT just does lots of field cantering to keep him sweet and ticking over. He does get more nappy the more days in a week he has off too !

Firewell said:
I haven't read all of the replies and you may do this already. Here where I am at my yard in Calif no one takes their competition horses out in the trailer without giving them ulcer guard a few days before the show and on the day of the show as they think even if no ulcers a little bit of stress can cause excess acid production and uncomfortableness. It is probably just the step up and a small dip in confidence at the new level but that could cause a physical stress reaction and if he does get prone to ulcers a few notches of ulcer guard on the run up to his next test could help?
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Already do the same but it's a good thought, thanks for thinking about us :)

MyBoyChe said:
Just having a read through this thread to catch up with your latest adventures and thought Id just add my thoughts. Im nowhere near as good a rider as you and would have long since cried off with such a tricky customer but have always thought he is an absolutely stunning looking horse, very stalliony (new word). Do you know when he was gelded (sorry if youve already covered that). He does look as if he has an attitude that could be quite colty and it wouldnt surprise me if that is quite a big part of his issues. He just has that look on his face sometimes, the look of a horse that has a very definite mind of his own.
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My completely none horsey OH said he looks " belligerent " which I think sums it up.
When I rode today I worked through the techniques we practiced on wed, namely that when he stops, he gets one polite reminder to move on and then if no joy I move the shoulder back and forth until his balance makes him step forward and then praise like mad. This gives him less excuse to rear ( albeit there will be times when he's rearing before he's really stopped and I'm not quick enough to stop those ones lol!) and my OH said that when he stops he looks totally at ease, just like " nope ta" but when I forced him to move the shoulder this turned in to a furious sulky brat expression........initially we literally went only 3/4 steps before he would stop and check the rules.....then once every 5minx, then only twice in 20mins. He was chewing and mouthing a lot( nice wet mouth, not drooling saliva) which I think is a good sigh, so we will see how he is mon. He's going for a jolly walk hack tomorrow as meant to be warm and still!

P.s thank you all. When this horse completes his first GP I will owe you all a lot and will have an oscars like speech ready lol! He really is the HHO project pony/ problem child!!!!
 
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