Current horse prices...

[Lulup]

Searching for a horse at the moment and prices are alarming - are they actually selling at these prices because many of the ads just seem to reappear back at the top each week and have been around for weeks?!
I bought a nicely bred, well produced 5 yo two years ago at £5.5k - this time round I'm seeing horses advertised with 'soundness issues' at Novice BE @ £6500 / 9 year old broodmare just coming back into work (done nothing) @ £9k and anything that takes the eye and sounds sane/sensible with any sort of form is often £15k +
If a horse is over budget do you ask if price is negotiable before viewing or do you try it then haggle if you like it?
Tell me your buying etiquette!

 

[EQUIDAE]

I don't think £6500 for a horse competing at novice BE, even with soundness issues, is bad - my friend has sold the same for £12k without issues so it's half of the market value. Sane and sensible attracts a high price tag - people will pay for a horse that comes with that guarantee. Horses are worth what someone is willing to pay for it and if they weren't selling at that price, then they would be advertised for less.

Out of interest what do you think this pony is worth (I've just sold so not an ad)? 14h2 8yo mare, no competition record as such but has done some local dressage and SJ plus XC schooled. Hacks alone or in company in the heaviest traffic. No vices, completely sound, incredibly polite, travels well.

 

[ihatework]

Good horses are commanding high prices and being achieved.

Of course some people chance it and put a high price tag on with a view that they can always drop it.

In terms of buying etiquette, I would always ask a seller if I could view if I had less than the advertised price to spend. There are ways to word things in this situation.

 

[be positive]

I would expect a sane horse with a record at BE novice to be £15k +, a horse with a soundness issue may be good value at £6500 to the right person who may get plenty out of it if they have the patience to nurse it through the next few seasons, it takes a huge investment to produce a young horse even a homebred will cost in the region of £15k to get to novice level, that is if you can produce it yourself and not have the added expense of sending it to a pro, anyone who wants to buy a proven horse needs to realise what it costs to get it to that stage.

As for haggling it depends on your budget and how far away it is from the asking price, I don't mind if someone tells me my horse is over the budget they have set but I would not let them come if they are in a different ballpark as it is wasting my time as well as theirs, I would not be happy if they turned up, tried it loved it then announced it was way over what they could afford, by all means make calls but be realistic about how far people will drop, I think 10% is normally built in, so £200 off a £2k horse maybe £1k off a £10k one would be my idea of realistic, you may be lucky and get more but do not expect it.

 

[HotToTrot]

Who knows.... You can stalk their records (if BE) and see whether they move on, or whether they sell. The Novice one - what sort of soundness issues did it have, and how good was its record?

 

[Lulup]

The horse with soundness issues was an ex racer that cannot continue competing at novice level due to soundness issues and also needed managing for ulcers - was being marketed as low level Allrounder. I think £6500 is a bit steep but I may be way out of touch!
Hard to value your pony without seeing it as quality/type/conformation are relevant but polite, sensible 14.2's are always in demand so I would hazard a guess at somewhere in the region of £3.5 to £4.5k?

 

[EQUIDAE]

Hard to value your pony without seeing it as quality/type/conformation are relevant but polite, sensible 14.2's are always in demand so I would hazard a guess at somewhere in the region of £3.5 to £4.5k?

Ha ha bang on! £4500 and I didn't even advertise her - I had someone contact me and once word was out, 3 people were interested. When I was thinking about advertising her someone said that I was being overoptimistic looking for £2000 for her, yet I was offered more than twice this without asking.

If you like a horse you feel is overpriced, just wait a few weeks and if it hasn't sold, offer a lower price If it has sold, then it wasn't valued too highly.

 

[zizz]

Trying to sell my 6yo 14.2. Well bred, good movement, schooling and jumping well, £3,750 and one phone call...
Definitely a buyers market still!

 

[EQUIDAE]

Trying to sell my 6yo 14.2. Well bred, good movement, schooling and jumping well, £3,750 and one phone call...
Definitely a buyers market still!

It's the age - people look from 7-10. Give it a year and the price will increase

 

[DirectorFury]

I think the Grassroots Champs have pushed up values for horses that are reliable at 90/100 but would never make the step to Novice for whatever reason.

I'm currently looking for an un-backed youngster and there are some really nice horses out there for quite little money when you consider how much it must have cost the breeder/owner just to get them to 3 or 4 year-old! Once they're backed and ridden on a bit I'd expect the price to increase substantially. On the other hand there are some people asking crazy money (£40k+) for very average animals just because they have a flashy trot; funnily when you ask them for a video of the walk or canter they go all quiet .

To take the example in your post for a "...nicely bred, well produced 5 yo..." (I'm assuming here that it has WB/ISH breeding, has been ridden away, could jump a course of 70-80cm, and do an Intro test) I'd expect to pay £8k if it's a straightforward ride and more if it's looks like it's got the potential to be something a little bit special.

But at the bottom end of the market the prices are changing, though in the opposite direction. Prices for bin-end horses are getting lower and lower - I'm not totally sure why as they were incredibly low to start with (!) but I'd like to think that people are waking up and realising that the sellers who will get rid of a 3yo for £20 haven't put any time, effort, or money into the animal and shouldn't be supported. I can dream I suppose!

 

[Lulup]

Thank you for your thoughts - maybe I've been unrealistic! I'm not looking for a horse with a good record at Novice - I'm open minded and happy with something that has been nicely produced and has made a start with a bit of SJ/dressage and showed promise XC schooling or maybe something doing 90/100 but not likely to go much further but many still seem to have sky high price tags and then when one pops up for less I find myself wondering why - can't win!

 

[DirectorFury]

Thank you for your thoughts - maybe I've been unrealistic! I'm not looking for a horse with a good record at Novice - I'm open minded and happy with something that has been nicely produced and has made a start with a bit of SJ/dressage and showed promise XC schooling or maybe something doing 90/100 but not likely to go much further but many still seem to have sky high price tags and then when one pops up for less I find myself wondering why - can't win!

Why not buy unbroken and spend the money you've saved on having it backed and ridden on? It might be a nice compromise if you're happy to bring on a young horse.

 

[Rollin]

Good horses are commanding high prices and being achieved.

Of course some people chance it and put a high price tag on with a view that they can always drop it.

In terms of buying etiquette, I would always ask a seller if I could view if I had less than the advertised price to spend. There are ways to word things in this situation.

So what should I charge for a 6 year old home bred, rare filly, 16h who has jumped 10 consecutive clear rounds at 1.05m and qualified for the National SJ Championships in France? I turned down 5,000 euros for her as an unbacked 3 year old, to a top endurance rider in Spain, as I did not want her to finish up as an Endurance horse in the UAE. Her full brother is graded for two stud books.

 

[Lulup]

I think the Grassroots Champs have pushed up values for horses that are reliable at 90/100 but would never make the step to Novice for whatever reason.

I'm currently looking for an un-backed youngster and there are some really nice horses out there for quite little money when you consider how much it must have cost the breeder/owner just to get them to 3 or 4 year-old! Once they're backed and ridden on a bit I'd expect the price to increase substantially. On the other hand there are some people asking crazy money (£40k+) for very average animals just because they have a flashy trot; funnily when you ask them for a video of the walk or canter they go all quiet .

To take the example in your post for a "...nicely bred, well produced 5 yo..." (I'm assuming here that it has WB/ISH breeding, has been ridden away, could jump a course of 70-80cm, and do an Intro test) I'd expect to pay £8k if it's a straightforward ride and more if it's looks like it's got the potential to be something a little bit special.

But at the bottom end of the market the prices are changing, though in the opposite direction. Prices for bin-end horses are getting lower and lower - I'm not totally sure why as they were incredibly low to start with (!) but I'd like to think that people are waking up and realising that the sellers who will get rid of a 3yo for £20 haven't put any time, effort, or money into the animal and shouldn't be supported. I can dream I suppose!

Yes I think you're spot on re. Grassroots - many that I've seen advertised are being marketed as exactly that. The 5 year old I bought for £5.5k was Master Imp bred and had successfully competed unaff dressage/SJ and had shown promise XC schooling so yes I would expect prices to have gone up in two years and I recently bought an unbroken 4yo direct from the breeder for quite a bit more than that so I'm happy to pay a fair price but I was still shocked as to how steeply prices seem to have risen for an average all-rounder. I think what I'm after is very much in demand at the moment so that's pushing the price right up and I guess that's fair enough

 

[ihatework]

So what should I charge for a 6 year old home bred, rare filly, 16h who has jumped 10 consecutive clear rounds at 1.05m and qualified for the National SJ Championships in France? I turned down 5,000 euros for her as an unbacked 3 year old, to a top endurance rider in Spain, as I did not want her to finish up as an Endurance horse in the UAE. Her full brother is graded for two stud books.

Difficult for me to say as a) you are in a different country and b) rare breed is not necessarily fashionable breed. I'm afraid I only have knowledge of the UK event market, and to some extent the RC/Grassrootes market.

 

[Lulup]

So what should I charge for a 6 year old home bred, rare filly, 16h who has jumped 10 consecutive clear rounds at 1.05m and qualified for the National SJ Championships in France? I turned down 5,000 euros for her as an unbacked 3 year old, to a top endurance rider in Spain, as I did not want her to finish up as an Endurance horse in the UAE. Her full brother is graded for two stud books.

I have no idea but I'm guessing she's an Arab and I'd love to see a picture!

 

[Lulup]

Why not buy unbroken and spend the money you've saved on having it backed and ridden on? It might be a nice compromise if you're happy to bring on a young horse.

I have
I have a lovely 4yo that I bought earlier this year - have very lightly backed him but my chiro has advised leaving him a while longer and just doing lots of groundwork to strengthen back muscles before doing much ridden work as he is a bit weak - so realistically he'll not be doing much this year. I'd like to find something fun that I can get out and about on sooner rather than later.

 

[be positive]

So what should I charge for a 6 year old home bred, rare filly, 16h who has jumped 10 consecutive clear rounds at 1.05m and qualified for the National SJ Championships in France? I turned down 5,000 euros for her as an unbacked 3 year old, to a top endurance rider in Spain, as I did not want her to finish up as an Endurance horse in the UAE. Her full brother is graded for two stud books.

She is lovely and very talented but her breed will put off most people looking for an event horse or a competition horse generally, she is not a "typical" arab but people just don't think of arabs as serious competition horses, other than endurance obviously, it is a shame as arabs have been used to improve horses for generations and she is a really good example of a modern sports horse, if you can afford to keep her and continue to compete her it may help raise the profile of the breed.

I know what you were asking for her and felt it realistic but the market will be very limited even with her recent jumping record, it is one of the problems with breeding rare breeds they are out of fashion not just rare.

 

[smja]

I'd like to find something fun that I can get out and about on sooner rather than later.

Depends whether you want to be competitive or not. Talking BE, horses that get placed 90/100 are expensive but something that will be out of the placings is a lot cheaper - e.g. the trickier sorts or the jumping-only fans!

 

[Rollin]

I have no idea but I'm guessing she's an Arab and I'd love to see a picture!

At last I am able to access my photo bucket account again - but what a performance to get photos off. Two photos of Antigone jumping her 10th clear round last saturday.


image: http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/rollin877/C7D21086_zpsr15ticsf.jpg


Three photos of her on the breeder's forum, her is the link.

Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...is-going-to-Fontainebleau#CEe0OzeK7zM43bkX.99

 

[Rollin]

She is lovely and very talented but her breed will put off most people looking for an event horse or a competition horse generally, she is not a "typical" arab but people just don't think of arabs as serious competition horses, other than endurance obviously, it is a shame as arabs have been used to improve horses for generations and she is a really good example of a modern sports horse, if you can afford to keep her and continue to compete her it may help raise the profile of the breed.

I know what you were asking for her and felt it realistic but the market will be very limited even with her recent jumping record, it is one of the problems with breeding rare breeds they are out of fashion not just rare.

I find it even more of a shame, that every British horse lover knows who Milton was but few know that his dam Aston Answer was a Grand prix SJ in her own right. She was actually an anglo-Shagya Arab, a grand daughter of BASA Shagya XII-3 imported to the UK, from Hungary, in the 1930's. We purchased our foundation mares from the Hungarian National Stud.

According to the American Shagya Association, 45% of the horses who competed at the WEG in Kentucky had Ramzes another anglo-shagya arab in their pedigree.

 

[Lulup]

At last I am able to access my photo bucket account again - but what a performance to get photos off. Two photos of Antigone jumping her 10th clear round last saturday.


image: http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/rollin877/C7D21086_zpsr15ticsf.jpg


Three photos of her on the breeder's forum, her is the link.

Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...is-going-to-Fontainebleau#CEe0OzeK7zM43bkX.99

She is fabulous!! Feel free to pm me a price although I'm guessing she's way over budget :/

 

[Eventmum]

I agree horse prices seem to have soared, we would be looking at at least another 3k to buy what we bought at end of March, and if we wanted to buy what he is now, consistently clear BE90 xc good sj and dressage in low 30s it would be an awful ot more. Scary

 

[SO1]

Supply and demand - eventing seeming to become more popular amongst amateurs over the last few years.

I wonder if also the way that dressage horse breeding has been going if that a lot of dressage horses are now too hot for some amateurs and they are now looking at for more all rounder types that can do dressage to a decent level and also be sensible enough to hack out as well as do a bit of jumping too.

 

[Eventmum]

Indeed we saw one when looking a stunning imported Dutch warmblood dressage horse that had been reschooled for eventing, it was so hot and spooky it took two laps of enormous arena to stop after a jump!!

 

[rachk89]

Aren't show jumpers a little cheaper? Maybe try and find one of them that has good flatwork and then you just need to school for eventing.

 

[Lulup]

I agree horse prices seem to have soared, we would be looking at at least another 3k to buy what we bought at end of March, and if we wanted to buy what he is now, consistently clear BE90 xc good sj and dressage in low 30s it would be an awful ot more. Scary

Well I'm glad someone else has noticed the same thing - a lot of good and relevant points have been made but I still think that prices have soared! I guess the changes made by BE/BS/BD to make the lower levels more accessible to the everyday rider has created a big market for horses that are competitive and relatively straightforward at those levels. There are still some people advertising at normal prices - they are other stuck in the same time warp as me or their horses will have some sort of unpleasant surprise in store for unsuspecting purchasers.. I will keep you posted!

 

[Bernster]

Interesting. I thought they'd dropped a bit for the basic all rounder but stayed high for the more comp type horse. Sounds like there's a bump in the market for that top end all rounder that's capable of doing grass roots, although I don't really know much about that market.

I do wonder whether prices are always low when you aren't looking and then seem high when you are haha. I found a good few in my price bracket last year but they didn't float my boat. I did end up going above that, and I think I paid more for temperment and attitude at that point, but he's proven himself many times over so I've never regretted it.

 

[EQUIDAE]

I agree horse prices seem to have soared, we would be looking at at least another 3k to buy what we bought at end of March, and if we wanted to buy what he is now, consistently clear BE90 xc good sj and dressage in low 30s it would be an awful ot more. Scary

It's the time of year too - they are always cheap coming out of winter, and peak prices mid summer.

 

[Rollin]

She is fabulous!! Feel free to pm me a price although I'm guessing she's way over budget :/

Sorry only just seen this. I have pm'd you. Her price is very fair and I always say reflects the cost of breeding the mare and the cost of keeping a horse for 6 years and giving her the best possible start in life. (sorry I cannot do smiley face). We are retired, hobby breeders for us promoting rare breeds is the name of the game.