Cushings symptoms but bloods say not

[Custard Cream]

20yr old IDxTB, no previous illness or allergic history. Always been a good doer. Struggled to keep weight off in past.

Has been seen by vet and vet coming again on Wednesday. Teeth been done by Vet whomis also a qualified dentist. All fine.

May/June noticed weight dropping off. There was no grass. Put it down to that. Worm counts all v low. Started with haylage in field all through summer.

Beg of Aug vet came to do teeth. I explained weight loss (or lack of gain). Did cushings test. 27.3, so ruled out.

End of August worm count moderate so did equest. Equisal then came back mod/high so did equitape and put weight loss down to tapeworm prob. Also upped feed and included micronised linseed.

Reaction to equest - itchy hives all over her tummy and poll.

Nov. Normal worm count low, tapeworm came back 3 times higher so have done double dose pyratape on Friday. Yesterday sweated up and very very itchy.

She’s suddenly gone old looking if that makes sense. Hair on her face looks cushings-esque.

Vet on wednesday and I’m going to ask for full blood screen.

Anyone else gone through similar?

 

[meleeka]

Ask your vet for a TRH Stimulation test. They often come up positive when the usual test says negative.

 

[Custard Cream]

Thanks Meleeka, I will do.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I advise the TR Stim test, too We had a 22 yr old who had been ACTH tested, with low readings, although each one was slightly higher than the previous one. We were concerned about symptoms and had the Stim test done. The reading was * 8 times* the acceptable maximum. She also had another ACTH test and that was still within acceptable levels.

 

[paddy555]

Your symptoms don't sound like cushings more a reaction to wormer. However mine was negative twice with much lower readings than yours and was very severely cushings so it does happen.
Do you have
excessive drinking and peeing
loss of topline and muscle loss,
very poor resistance to infections needs lots of anti biotics
pot belly,
sore feet/ abscessing
not shedding
lethargy,
skin problems apart from possible wormer allergy
eating loads but dropping weight (mine ate a bale of hay 45lbs a day and hard feed but still dropped weight a lot (he is 500kg)

As others have suggested I would do the TR test but if you can see several of the above it may give more indication of cushings

 

[Custard Cream]

Definitely the weight loss, that’s my main concern. The reaction to wormers seems secondary and only happened since the weight loss.

Drinking and peeing could be up, yes.

She’s not lethargic, def has loss of topline and muscle.

I’ll ring the vets tomorrow and ask for the TR Stim test and make sure vet comes prepared on Wednesday.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I think they have to order the TRH test kit in from Liphook at least that was what my vet said so definitely let them know beforehand.

 

[whiteflower]

I've got an oldy with same issues as yours this year bar the wormer reaction (he's had negative worm counts and just tapeworm wormer)
He started to loose weight over the same time of summer as yours and started to look 'old' for the first time. Teeth fine, negative Cushing's.
I've started feeding 3 feeds of soaked grass nuts and micronised linseed. The difference in the last few weeks has been massive (been feeding this for last month/6 weeks) he's really picked up, coat improved and now look like he's almost got a belly ! I was panicking thinking it was something serious but having ruled the obvious out I've come to the conclusion the long very hot summer took at lot more out of him then I realised. The lack of grass (our went brown and crispy and didn't grown really) along with constant high temps seems to have made him struggle. I'm monitoring him but he's back on form.
You are doing all the right things, checking the right things.fingers crossed your picks up as mine has

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Ask for a prascend trial, change his diet to a cushings manageable diet.

If you do get the prascend get a pill cutter and work up 1/4 of a tablet at a time. Start on half a day and give 1/4 am then same Pm then up it a quarter every two weeks to allow him to adjust. I saw the best results that way.

 

[splashgirl45]

not sure but dont you have to starve them for 12 hours for the TRH test, just thought i ought to mention this as if you dont starve they cant do the test....i think !!!!! i may be wrong...

 

[YorksG]

not sure but dont you have to starve them for 12 hours for the TRH test, just thought i ought to mention this as if you dont starve they cant do the test....i think !!!!! i may be wrong...

No you don't have to stave for twelve hours, well we didn't anyway! It does take a while, as the vet has to take two blood samples, with about ten minutes in between, one before the injection and the second a short while after.
My mare had some odd symptoms, she had always had a bit of a pollen allergy, which went through the roof her last summer, steroids and ventipulmin got on top of it, but it was a constant battle that last spring and summer. Her skin was ok, but her coat went very dull and she lost a lot of her sparkle and got quite grumpy, which was not like her at all.

 

[splashgirl45]

yorksg, checked with my friend as i knew she'd had that test and her vet made her starve her horse for 12 hours, thats why i thought they had to be starved, my friend had hers tested a long while ago so perhaps things have changed now....

 

[YorksG]

yorksg, checked with my friend as i knew she'd had that test and her vet made her starve her horse for 12 hours, thats why i thought they had to be starved, my friend had hers tested a long while ago so perhaps things have changed now....

My mare was tested last october and again in November, and did not need to be starved, her figures were huge and although they did come down a bit with prascend, we lost her in January 2018

 

[ester]

I think I'd probably want a general blood screen before doing the TRH test

 

[splashgirl45]

so sorry yorksg, i think my friends was tested in 2016 or early 2017 not really sure exactly when but it was after i had lost mine in sept 2016..losing them never gets easier...

 

[YorksG]

so sorry yorksg, i think my friends was tested in 2016 or early 2017 not really sure exactly when but it was after i had lost mine in sept 2016..losing them never gets easier...

it surely doesn't we lost her age 22 and had got her age eight, she had done all sorts with us and had a LOT of personality.

 

[splashgirl45]

similar time to me i got my mare age 10 and lost her at age 25, and mine also had a lot of attitude!!!!!!

 

[YorksG]

similar time to me i got my mare age 10 and lost her at age 25, and mine also had a lot of attitude!!!!!!

I was hoping that my mare would go on ,like the one before her, till she was 33, they were both Appaloosas, very different builds (the second one was like an over grown show pony, the first much bigger built) but it was not to be.

 

[splashgirl45]

mine was due to cushings and i had 5 years from when she was diagnosed so i knew she wouldnt be with me for ever but it was still a shock as even though i wasnt riding her for the last 6 months, i would have kept her going if she had been comfortable in the field...she was such a character she has left a big hole

 

[Custard Cream]

I've got an oldy with same issues as yours this year bar the wormer reaction (he's had negative worm counts and just tapeworm wormer)
He started to loose weight over the same time of summer as yours and started to look 'old' for the first time. Teeth fine, negative Cushing's.
I've started feeding 3 feeds of soaked grass nuts and micronised linseed. The difference in the last few weeks has been massive (been feeding this for last month/6 weeks) he's really picked up, coat improved and now look like he's almost got a belly ! I was panicking thinking it was something serious but having ruled the obvious out I've come to the conclusion the long very hot summer took at lot more out of him then I realised. The lack of grass (our went brown and crispy and didn't grown really) along with constant high temps seems to have made him struggle. I'm monitoring him but he's back on form.
You are doing all the right things, checking the right things.fingers crossed your picks up as mine has

Thanks for posting - how odd! She's gone through almost a whole bag of micronised linseed and it's made no difference.....curently on a rounded scoop of D&H senior mix, half a scoop of sugar beet, micronised linseed and sunflower oil, twice a day. No difference.

 

[SEL]

Have you had a full blood panel taken? I had raised liver enzymes with one of mine at the beginning of the year and a couple of months later another livery had the same. Moved yards and both horses a lot better.

Friend's welshie had awful reaction to equitape btw

 

[paddy555]

Thanks for posting - how odd! She's gone through almost a whole bag of micronised linseed and it's made no difference.....curently on a rounded scoop of D&H senior mix, half a scoop of sugar beet, micronised linseed and sunflower oil, twice a day. No difference.

have you tried high dose ie 10000iu per day natural vit e oil? That was the thing that put the top line back on my cushings horse. IT is recommended for cushings.

 

[Scarlett]

I have similar with my 20 yo TB, no lack of energy but struggling to keep topline on him for the first time ever, is drinking and peeing a lot and sweating though clipped. Bloods came back last week at 28.5 and vet has recommended we try a month or two of Pracend to see how he goes.

 

[meleeka]

I have similar with my 20 yo TB, no lack of energy but struggling to keep topline on him for the first time ever, is drinking and peeing a lot and sweating though clipped. Bloods came back last week at 28.5 and vet has recommended we try a month or two of Pracend to see how he goes.

I do wish more vets would think like this. It’s fairly easy to see if there’s an improvement and it’s not always necessary to go with blood results alone, especially when dealing with laminitis where there’s some urgency to get them right.

 

[whiteflower]

Thanks for posting - how odd! She's gone through almost a whole bag of micronised linseed and it's made no difference.....curently on a rounded scoop of D&H senior mix, half a scoop of sugar beet, micronised linseed and sunflower oil, twice a day. No difference.

I have to say with mine I think it's more the grass nuts that's made a difference as he's only on 1 cup linseed a day. He has 1 Stubbs scoop grass nuts at night and half a scoop morning and lunch, all soaked. Half a cup linseed am and pm and that's it. The difference has been amazing. May be worth a go ? Also the more feeds toucan split it into the better I find

 

[be positive]

I do wish more vets would think like this. It’s fairly easy to see if there’s an improvement and it’s not always necessary to go with blood results alone, especially when dealing with laminitis where there’s some urgency to get them right.

Some cannot see what is in front of them and rely too much on test results which should only be part of the diagnostics, we still know very little about cushings so a vet should treat the symptoms if possible even if the tests are suggesting otherwise, there was a thread recently where the vet would not prescribe prascend and the owner is considering pts as the pony is suffering from laminitis on and off.

 

[Custard Cream]

A little update. Vet is coming tomorrow to do the test and she does need to be starved. Tea and hay as normal tonight but nothingin the morning and vet coming at lunchtime.

Glucose was mentioned, is that the right test? Sounds like the same thing I had done when pregnant to test for diabetes. Is cushings the horse version??

 

[Merrymoles]

20yr old IDxTB, no previous illness or allergic history. Always been a good doer. Struggled to keep weight off in past.

Has been seen by vet and vet coming again on Wednesday. Teeth been done by Vet whomis also a qualified dentist. All fine.

May/June noticed weight dropping off. There was no grass. Put it down to that. Worm counts all v low. Started with haylage in field all through summer.

Beg of Aug vet came to do teeth. I explained weight loss (or lack of gain). Did cushings test. 27.3, so ruled out.

End of August worm count moderate so did equest. Equisal then came back mod/high so did equitape and put weight loss down to tapeworm prob. Also upped feed and included micronised linseed.

Reaction to equest - itchy hives all over her tummy and poll.

Nov. Normal worm count low, tapeworm came back 3 times higher so have done double dose pyratape on Friday. Yesterday sweated up and very very itchy.

She’s suddenly gone old looking if that makes sense. Hair on her face looks cushings-esque.

Vet on wednesday and I’m going to ask for full blood screen.

Anyone else gone through similar?

Sounds exactly like my horse's fieldmate - 25-year-old ID who suddenly dropped weight alarmingly in September - apart from he had no reaction to the wormers. Bloods all clear, Cushings test clear but topline disappeared rapidly. He has now regained some weight on a new feed regime and I will point his owner to this thread in case she wants to give more info on how she's tackled it, although I'm not sure she is registered as a user. He does have very few front teeth left and we wondered if it was due to the general lack of grass in the summer/autumn as he needs longer grass to be able to get hold of it. He was very well all summer however.

 

[be positive]

A little update. Vet is coming tomorrow to do the test and she does need to be starved. Tea and hay as normal tonight but nothingin the morning and vet coming at lunchtime.

Glucose was mentioned, is that the right test? Sounds like the same thing I had done when pregnant to test for diabetes. Is cushings the horse version??

That sounds as if they are doing an insulin test which is nothing to do with cushings, I would call them now and ensure they can also do the cushings test which is the far more likely condition considering the weight loss is your primary concern, the vets may have got crossed wires with your request you don't want to find they come prepared for the wrong one and you have wasted a call out as well as starving a horse that cannot afford to go hungry unnecessarily.

 

[Custard Cream]

Hmmmm I did fully discuss that it was the secondary cushings test, the TR Stim as she’d already had a negative cushings....too late to ring them now. Will ring first thing.