Cycling "Sportives"

[criso]

Public roads are not there for sporting events they are there to get from A to B.

That

As soon as you introduce any competitive element, it brings out competitive behaviour in the cyclists. The occasional big event such as the London marathon or the tour de france with all the associated organisation and diversions but not as a normal event.

And sometimes it's not just bad behaviour that causes problems but just the type of event. Horses that will cope with day to day encounters with bikes will be freaked out by a very large group approaching in a pack.

Then you do get the ones that behave badly, I had an experience where a car had slowed right down and pulled out to pass me, the cyclists then sped though the gap between me and the car. lLuckily horse is very well behaved and not phased, but if he'd taken the tiniest step to the right to avoid something on the road he would have bumped the cyclist intothe car.

We've had lots of organised rides at the weekends, you can't avoid them as they go on all the roads that link the bridlepaths and for people working full time, in the winter the weekend is the only opportunity to hack.

They seem to have tailed off recently but there is no communication so I don't know if they will start up again and when.

 

[Theocat]

Public roads are not there for sporting events they are there to get from A to B.

If we stuck to that we couldn't hack on roads.

I absolutely agree that there should be warning - by signposting on the route in advance - but a lot of the criticisms on this thread - blocking the roads, riding two abreast - are aimed just as often at horse riders. We need better communication, but riders and cyclists need to work together or it could cause bigger problems.

 

[sport horse]

If it was just the roads it would be bad enough, I was caught on an 6' wide bridleway and 90 bikes came in the opposite direction with no warning and I was on a 5 year old horse. I asked if I could turn around and trot back to the road but to no avail they just kept coming past. It took me one hour to get home (only 10 mins away).

I know we must not tar all cyclists with the same brush but surely if you are running a major event such as a sportive on bridleways and small roads it makes sense to make an effort to minimise accidents to other users of the tracks.

What would happen if we organised a mass horse ride on the same day over the same route? The temptation to do it is almost overwhelming sometimes! Does anyone have a large number of shires etc that we could use and then perhaps the cyclists would remember that although they have a 'right' to use the tracks that when they do so in such a large, organised way on a specific day they have a 'duty' to ensure the safety and comfort of other users. I personally have no objection to one day's use in this way subject to huge advance publicity warning riders/walkers to keep away during the hours of the particular event.

Surely this is only common sense and decent considerate behaviour?

 

[criso]

If we stuck to that we couldn't hack on roads.

I would suggest a lot of use of roads by horseriders is to get from A to B, from the yard to bridlepath and then from bridlepath a to bridlepath b.

Hacking isn't a competitive event that involves 20 plus riders in a group racing to make times.

If someone suggested an organised Endurance training event on the roads that involved riders in a big group, racing and blocking off the whole road, I would say it wasn't appropriate either. Cars shouldn't race on the roads. Why should cyclists be allowed to. By calling it a sportive and saying it is against the clock not against each other, they get round the law but it is a race by another name.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Comments like this are off topic and not very helpful...please do not tar us all with the same brush! I am one of these people (in Lycra) and I am also a horse rider and walker.

Not off topic IMHO. I find the same as cobgoblin. See earlier posts of mine to see that I have a foot in both camps too.

 

[MillyMoomie]

I recently moved to a area that was used in the Olympic route and is also heaven for mountain bikes.
I used to be totally bemused by people who moaned about cyclists, I couldn't see why drivers just couldnt use some patience, and wait.
Now however, I completely hate groups of road cyclists. Both whilst riding and driving. They without fail are inconsiderate, grumpy, selfish and unsafe to both themselves and my horses. I say its GROUPS that are the issue. Single cyclists seem to be very different and are very considerate.
At the weekends around here you can't go on the roads because of the cyclists but you can't go off the roads because if the mountain bikes! The good thing is that your horses very quickly becomes bike friendly.

I find it insulting that it is almost insinuated that drivers are out to harm cyclists and it's always the drivers fault. I don't want to hurt anyone, I know how it feels to be a vulnerable road user and I certainly don't want to stop anyone enjoying a sport. Difference is, I say thank you to drivers who pass wide and slow, I trot on and move into gaps to let drivers pass whenever possible and I try to be considerate of rush hours etc. not once has a cyclist said thank you to me.

 

[MillyMoomie]

Would also like to add that for a period of one month in the summer my village was totally shut down over 3 weekends for organised cycle events. I couldn't even get to my yard.

 

[cobgoblin]

Seeing as cyclists are allowed on bridle ways - are horses allowed on cycle tracks?

 

[spottybotty]

Seeing as cyclists are allowed on bridle ways - are horses allowed on cycle tracks?

Apparently not. I live in a town with the largest network of cycleways in Europe, the "Lycra lovies" still use the roads. I was leaving the yard with a friend this summer when about 15 riders tried to overtake us on a narrow country lane, I asked them politly to slow down as friends horse was a youngster, and was ignored. They had their heads down and cut me up on my horse! I am not anti cyclist, I ride 6miles a day myself to get to my horses, but these cyclists really are rude and arrogant. They were in a cycling "sportive" and no one in the area was told, there were about 500 cyclists alltogether.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

If we stuck to that we couldn't hack on roads.

I ride from A to B and usually back to A again. I'm not doing a competition or riding competitively on a public highway neither is the lone cyclist going to the shops or a small group of mountain bikers out for a pleasure ride. Imagine if 1000 horse riders decided to do an event on a public road I'm sure there would be uproar!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I've just looked up the sportive that came past us yesterday. It was a non competitive 100k run under the British Cycling banner, with a limit of 100 participants and commencing at 9am, so pretty small as these events go. Still would have been nice to know about it in advance though!

 

[Kentphil]

I've just looked up the sportive that came past us yesterday. It was a non competitive 100k run under the British Cycling banner, with a limit of 100 participants and commencing at 9am, so pretty small as these events go. Still would have been nice to know about it in advance though!

.....and the BHS have an agreed code of conduct with British Cycling! (see earlier post from BHS).

 

[Tiddlypom]

.....and the BHS have an agreed code of conduct with British Cycling! (see earlier post from BHS).

I think that unfortunately the code of conduct only applies to Time Trials. In these, the competitors set off individually and try to set the fastest time on the course on that day.

The sportives are more relaxed(!). The entrants have to complete the distance under a set time, such as riding 100 miles in 8 hours, so are not technically races, as there is no bonus for finishing under the time. In practice, however, many participants are out to beat their personal best times for the distance, so they get a wiggle on!

 

[Kentphil]

I think that unfortunately the code of conduct only applies to Time Trials. In these, the competitors set off individually and try to set the fastest time on the course on that day.

The sportives are more relaxed(!). The entrants have to complete the distance under a set time, such as riding 100 miles in 8 hours, so are not technically races, as there is no bonus for finishing under the time. In practice, however, many participants are out to beat their personal best times for the distance, so they get a wiggle on!

I think that you might quite like the Directgov petition if and when the civil servants let it through. I propose that all organised and timed cycle road events with more than 20 participants should be regulated along with all organised road events with more than 100 participants. The regulation proposed is light, but includes a duty of consultation.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sounds great! Let's hope that the petition gets past the civil servants. Thanks for your efforts.

 

[Mithras]

The ignorance shown on this thread is astounding. Lets hope that if cycling events such as this are regulated, horseriders are required to take a test and obtain a license to show competence to hack their horses on the public roads before they are allowed to do so. As in the The Netherlands, where the culture is less car-centric and actual proper cycle roads that you can cycle faster than a toddler on ice exist.

 

[YorksG]

I can only make the presumption that Mithras is a regular racing cyclist, as her rudeness in the above post is on a parr with that of the idiots who block country roads by riding up to 5 abreast and deliberately try and spook horses!

 

[Kentphil]

There is always one!
You should see what I have posted on some cycling websites..............

 

[cobgoblin]

The ignorance shown on this thread is astounding. Lets hope that if cycling events such as this are regulated, horseriders are required to take a test and obtain a license to show competence to hack their horses on the public roads before they are allowed to do so. As in the The Netherlands, where the culture is less car-centric and actual proper cycle roads that you can cycle faster than a toddler on ice exist.

What ignorance- care to expand?

 

[Mithras]

I can only make the presumption that Mithras is a regular racing cyclist, as her rudeness in the above post is on a parr with that of the idiots who block country roads by riding up to 5 abreast and deliberately try and spook horses!

If I was a regular "regular racing cyclist, I would hardly be doing sportives.

I am former GB triathlon age grouper, who will be doing another Ironman next year, and sincerely hope I manage to train on the appalling roads with the appalling drivers without dying. I also regularly hunt and am a pretty serious showjumper. I've also never owned a horse which is spooked by cyclists in groups and I've marshalled a triathlon and a local road race from horseback.

And yes, thankfully there is always one who isn't afraid to speak out amongst the herd. I simply cannot abide lazy people sitting behind the wheel of cars complaining about people who are actually moving under their own steam. Why not complain about joy riders, or drunk drivers, or people who regularly break the speed limit? Or start up a petition for better cycle provision? Or possibly rid yourselves of your pent up frustration by doing another sport as well as riding, and widening your perspective at the same time?

Alternatively, there is always sheep herding...

 

[pennyturner]

Although I might put it more carefully, I think I'm with Mithras on this one. If horse riders start getting all high and mighty about regulating other road users, (particularly cyclists who are more vulnerable than we are), we are just asking for licencing, regulation, testing, insurance and all the rest for our own use of the roads, which would be a disaster.

We need to encourage anything and anyone who isn't a car to use the roads.

At halloween I drove through a local well-to-do village. It was evening, and the narrow medieval streets were full of children in fancy dress and parents carefully shepherding them along, with various attempts at hi-viz. There are no pavements, and it was pitch dark. I had to be very careful, and couldn't drive normally through the village. How inconvenient; how dangerous; how delightful to see them out 'reclaiming' the road for the children, if only for one night.

 

[little_critter]

round here they dont even use the cycle paths!!! there is a main road 2 mins from my house with a foot path and cycle path next to it (clearly signed) yet those (not all!!) in lycra think they are too good to use the cycle path so stay on the road. Have also seen videos on fb/youtube of cyclists cycling NEXT to a cycle lane on a main road in london.. I really do not get it

That's because the paths are usually next to footpaths and walkers don't look where they are going. You'll be happily cycling along when someone randomly shoves a pushchair in your path. Not a fun experience!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Although I might put it more carefully, I think I'm with Mithras on this one. If horse riders start getting all high and mighty about regulating other road users, (particularly cyclists who are more vulnerable than we are), we are just asking for licencing, regulation, testing, insurance and all the rest for our own use of the roads, which would be a disaster.

This thread is (on the whole) about Sportives not general bike riding which is a totally different. I still don't get why cyclists think it is OK to run such huge and money making - I've read £50 -£60 an entry http://road.cc/content/forum/49568-sportive-entry-costs event on a public high-way which is provided and maintained through all of our taxes without any thought to other road-users.

 

[pennyturner]

This thread is (on the whole) about Sportives not general bike riding which is a totally different. I still don't get why cyclists think it is OK to run such huge and money making - I've read £50 -£60 an entry http://road.cc/content/forum/49568-sportive-entry-costs event on a public high-way which is provided and maintained through all of our taxes without any thought to other road-users.

It's a PUBLIC road dammit. That means everyone - lycra or otherwise.

You sound like the kind of person who winds their window down to shout at the children and I out on a hack that we should be in a field.

When we met a steam-roller traction engine coming down the main street right at our ride of 8 (7 were children), we didn't once wish him off the road. We were happy to have our horses 'tested' by something a little outside their comfort zone, and came home with a tale to tell.
BTW - the traction engine doesn't pay road tax either, and neither does your horse. Do you see how hypocritical (as well as intolerant) your position is?

 

[Kentphil]

Having strated the thread I am beginning to wish that I could shut it down. The point was a simple one and was about organised "sportives" whose organisers push the existing rules to the limit and send hundreds of cyclists down single track roads without any prior notice or marshalling. This is unsafe for all road users and particularly dangerous for the cyclists themselves. We should all be able to share the roads without conflict and in an ideal world cyclists and riders should be close allies as we are all vulnerable.

The point about regulation is not that individuals should be regulated, but that the large companies organising these things (e.g. Wiggle through a subsidiary called UKcyclingevents) have a duty to let people know they are happening well in advance and organise them in a way which keeps everyone safe. The feedback I received from some participants in the one that came my way a few weeks ago was that they were not happy that the organisers had charged them to take part in something which they felt was not safe. Indeed, their comments were part of the inspiration for starting this discussion.

It is not "us and them", it should be "us". For those who just want to moan about the rights and wrongs of cycling, I would suggest that they start their own thread.

Sorry about the rant....................

 

[Tiddlypom]

I've also never owned a horse which is spooked by cyclists in groups and I've marshalled a triathlon and a local road race from horseback.

And yes, thankfully there is always one who isn't afraid to speak out amongst the herd.

Well, go you then! Glad that your horse is not spooked by large groups of cyclists but unfortunately many are. And I can top your experience of marshalling from horseback, mine was actually the HAZARD in a Cyclists Touring Club competition whereby we partially blocked a bridle way (pretending not to have noticed the on coming cyclist) and marked the competitors on how courteous us they were in alerting us to their presence! (Horse absolutely loved it btw and was rock solid).

And I am never afraid to put my head over the parapet either!

 

[case895]

Police or government regulation of sportives would be completely pointless. They would not get involved and I don't see how it could possibly benefit horse riders. Would the organisers have to track down every horse owner along a 100m route to tell them?

As a horse rider and sportive rider I will ride where I want (and am allowed to do so legally), when I want and without notice to the State or its bodies. I live in a free country, not one where I need the State's permission to ride my horse or my bike.

 

[pennyturner]

I live in a free country, not one where I need the State's permission to ride my horse or my bike.

Yet...

 

[Sussexbythesea]

It's a PUBLIC road dammit. That means everyone - lycra or otherwise.

You sound like the kind of person who winds their window down to shout at the children and I out on a hack that we should be in a field.

When we met a steam-roller traction engine coming down the main street right at our ride of 8 (7 were children), we didn't once wish him off the road. We were happy to have our horses 'tested' by something a little outside their comfort zone, and came home with a tale to tell.
BTW - the traction engine doesn't pay road tax either, and neither does your horse. Do you see how hypocritical (as well as intolerant) your position is?

I'm not the one attacking and accusing another person of being aggressive on no grounds whatsoever. You need to take a good look at yourself before accusing others. I haven't been rude or attacking to you nor to cyclists, small children or anyone generally.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Kentphil, all the best, please keep us informed re the petition. I shall tootle off from this thread now, perhaps by bike.... .