Daily Mail, the slaughtering of racehorses.

Puppy said:
Of course it isn't factual, it's the Daily Fail :D

I think anyone who believes what they read in the DM should be sent to Potters :rolleyes:
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:D

I haven't read all of the responses but I'm quite shocked by what I have already seen. There is criticism of a trainer who went to a slaughterhouse to check the facilities???? Well done him/her I say!

Those who are up in arms, do you have cats and dogs? Do you really think that Felix "Salmon & prawn" is full of salmon and prawns? Of course not - it's horsemeat!

I telll you what, I would prefer that our horses (for whatever reason, we die, loose all our money etc) go to the "butcher", than to a nasty dealer/nasty riding school/nasty family with a spoilt kid who doesn't know how to look after a horse/pony.

Horsemeat is also fed to the big cats in zoos - it's dyed blue so identified "not for human consumption".

They eat horsemeat here, I don't. But, the price at the butcher is probably more interesting than in the UK. Also, it isn't considered to be cruel. THe man doing the slaughter is experienced with slaughtering horses and does it quickly (just recently knew of a friend with a 30,000 euro dressage horse that sustained a critical injury - he called the butcher, terribly sad but the butcher is a proffesional, but he was very much appreciated for the quick death of a very loved horse - not a pro just a rich friend who loves horses).

As has been said many times on this forem, death (and a controlled death carried out by professionals who *big gasp* do actually care about animals) is better than a crippy life in pain/suffering etc.

What do you want to do when you are old? What do you want for your parents/family?
 
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NFFR- no foal, free return I think.
This article is form 2009. I think the indusrty is already sorting its self out. if you look at numbers a lot less have been put in foal compared to previous years. There still is a glut of 3/4 years old about, but in 5 years time the problem will have sorted itself out.

I would much rather see a horse shot at Potter's etc than abdoaned in a council estate or something similar!
 
brigantia said:
Alec, I hope you are right. But if what the journalist wrote was factual, then it is very sad.

The irony is that this is a multibillion pound industry. If there could be a tax on the winnings and the ticket sales for high profile events like Ascot and even profits from the betting industry that could be channeled into retraining race horses, that might make a difference. As it stands, it seems such a waste of an animal, especially the foals being slaughtered so the breeders don't have to pay the stud fees.

This country really needs it's own Fugly Blog to name and shame the worst offenders. I hear the libel laws are being reformed, so maybe it is a possibility. :cool:
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brigantia, I really can't agree with you. If what the journalist wrote was factual. I would have serious doubts about that. I've never been to Turners, but years ago, when commercial horse slaughter was a more widespread practice, and before legislation was as it is now, I never witnessed any horse slaughter which was anything other than ethical, and correct. I've also seen the youtube footage of Potters system, curiously filmed by an animal rights lot, and it was as I would expect. The horse will be taken into a room, it will obviously wonder where it is, but when it meets its end, it is humane and sympathetic to the animal's needs.

To suggest that foals are shot to avoid paying the stud fees, is entirely wrong. In fact, to claim this is dangerous nonsense. The stud fee is due before the foal is born, generally on the 1st. October, following a covering. There are many stallion owners who are now offering a free return covering, in the event that filly foals are born, and any stallion owner would need to see a vet's report, in the event that a foal "died" at birth. A hole in the head would hardly be considered as a natural death.

There are many studs around the Newmarket area, and none, that I know, would ever countenance such behaviour.

Breeders will not stop the irresponsible breeding of horses, because you, I or anyone else says that you should. The breeding of TBs will be governed by the economic climate, which prevails. The problem arrises when economic recession arrives, and youngsters born 2 or 3 years earlier, and during better times, will have little future.

There is no difference between the slaughter of horses, sheep or cattle, except perhaps in our perceptions. What is the alternative? Bundle them up into lots of 20 and open up a few more rescue centres, where they can live stale, boring and meaningless lives? Think again.

Alec.
 
I've been reading this thread with great interest. Fascinating to see so many different opinions.

I'll add my tuppence worth.

I find this quote on the original article quite important:

It is better for a racehorse to be put down than for it to go to a home where it will be neglected
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The horses may experiene a week of terrible conditions and being terrified, but, it will come to an end. Look at all the horses for sale out there, skin and bone, terrified looking ones, ones infested and infected... I suspect they are like that because they were bought cheaply and the owner didn't have a clue and couldn't afford it's upkeep. Most of those horses will end up being put to sleep due to how poor they are and they have suffered for a lot longer than a week.

I had a friend at college who worked at a slaughter house for horses. Some found it bizarre that I was friends with him. What he said to me was beautiful. He took the job from the Jobcentre where you don't really have an option to pick and chose what career you follow. It was national minimum wage AND he was a horse lover that did odd bits n bobs around the stables for money, he had it tough, kicked out of home at 16 with no qualifications and having to somehow survive on his own at such a young age. We had a deep and meaningful chat about his work one day and he said roughly; "I'm not involved like people think, I just clean up and make people coffee, but what I can do which I like is to talk to the horses, give them a cuddle or a stroke and I feel good because they got some affection before they went. The owners are not how people think, they like the fact I like horses and they are really happy for me to spend time with them".

I know that is just 1 slaughter house, a small one, but it just goes to show that there was love and care for the horses that met their end there. You just cannot read something and take that as the whole truth unless you have it on good authority or witnessed it for yourself.

With regards to the meat trade on horses. Well I cannot see where a problem lies with that. The horses that go on to become meat were not being killed for that purpose, as said in the article it is simply a way of re-imbursing the costs for slaughter.

There was an excellent TV programme on a year or two ago called Kill It, Cook It, Eat It. It was fascinating and really got your mind and conscience working.

If the French had Lobsters as only pets in their country would we accept them calling us sick and twisted for eating them? I only chose Lobsters as I was trying to think of a "delicacy", I know they are not exactly as cute and cuddly as a pony ;)
 
Outside my window is a well bred foal, out of a Grade 1 mare by a Derby winning sire. It is the ugliest, wonkiest little foal I've ever seen. Its pasterns were on the floor when it was born. It has had every vet attention you could possibly wish for but the reality for this little chap is highly unlikely to come sound ever. The mare did nothing wrong, the foaling went well. The foal was just born that way. They are waiting to see if it can have any quality of life. If it doesn't, well then better a quick death than a life of unsoundness and neglect.

People here are forgetting that death is not the worst thing that can happen to a horse. Starvation, maltreatment and neglect is worse by far. It's all very well saying that you should remortgage your house and your life to feed, house and support a failed racehorse. But this does not and will not happen. I'd sooner have my horses put down than send them out into the world, knowing what could befall them out of my sight and care.
 
Ravenwood said:
I think this thread shows just how faceless posters are on a forum. I am guessing (and could well be wrong) that there is a divide between very young and unexperienced in life posters, the difference between posters brought up in an urban environment and those brought up in a country life.

The youngsters are indignant at a loss of life, the townies are unused to the basics of animals and slaughter and the country folk live with it on a daily basis.

No one will win this argument - it will go round and round in circles. Best just to sit back, read, ingest. learn and try to come to a balanced opinion :)
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A good post R_W, except that I don't see it as being a case for winning, or loosing an argument. More I would think, that it should be that those who find the practice of commercially euthanising horses, and for meat production, attempt to explain, to those who can't cope with the idea, that they genuinely have the well being of the horse at heart.

Those with little understanding of the process, will all so often live with the belief, that those who find horse slaughter acceptable, are nothing short of being barbarians. It's a shame, because those who find the practice acceptable, will again, all so often be those who put the welfare of the horse before their own abhorrence of all equine death.

Alec.
 
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I haven't read all the posts but have read the article. It's dated 2009, be interesting to know if the number of racehorses has changed in that time.
 
Alec Swan said:
A good post R_W, except that I don't see it as being a case for winning, or loosing an argument. More I would think, that it should be that those who find the practice of commercially euthanising horses, and for meat production, attempt to explain, to those who can't cope with the idea, that they genuinely have the well being of the horse at heart.

Those with little understanding of the process, will all so often live with the belief, that those who find horse slaughter acceptable, are nothing short of being barbarians. It's a shame, because those who find the practice acceptable, will again, all so often be those who put the welfare of the horse before their own abhorrence of all equine death.

Alec.
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As I said earlier, there is no difference OMO between slaughtering cows and slaughtering horses. I dislike the commercial slaughter of both. I would like to see the price of meat being increased tenfold and all meat being produced organically and free range with a limit on transport distances of half an hour. That, I would like to be applied to horses and other livestock alike. Then, maybe when we have to pay more for our meat can the farmers transporters and abbattiors afford to vastly improve the welfare and reduce the stress and suffering of the animals.

As far as horses are concened, then I would prefer destruction by lethal injection or at the very least, being shot at home rather than taken somewhere scary and strange to them.
 
friesian80 said:
Ok ill get jumped on BIG TIME here. But in the last thread about horse slaughter I spoke of a documentary I watched I *think* was on channel 4 around 5-6 years ago (yes all very vague I know). :rolleyes:

But what i watched is not vague I remember it in detail, I believe the channel had gone undercover to reveal the daily handling of the animals of a british slaughterhouse (this did not include horses). The undercover reporter had been given a job by the abbotoir and had to learn the ways of a slaughterhouse, he became friends with the workers (mainly men) who worked there and it was revealed most of them were drop outs from school who were young and very interestingly (yes it holds not much relevance to most but does to me) but the majority had grown up without a father figure. Many took pleasure in killing the animals (had a lot of pent up anger) often meaning to kill in an unhumane way ie not to stun or would intentionally petrify the animal beforehand.
There were also some very well skilled and good men there (usually the hardcore workers who had been there a LONG time). They were in charge to teach the new recruits how to kill humanely but more often when there back was turned the worker would begin to torment the animal before killing it and cause it some pretty horrific cruelty.

I think this is where my main concerns are from - this documentary I watched years and years ago. I believe now that they must install CCTV camera's in slaughterhouses and I think it would be a good way to monitor them now. Why have the footage recorded if its not checked regularly???????
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I saw this as well - one of the workers said that he loved his job because it was legalised murder. However I am a meat eater. I was vegetarian for about 20 years, but it was because I hated the smell, taste and texture of meat. Then someone persuaded me to taste some bacon and that was it!! I still can't stand the taste of beef (yuck!) or pork steaks and chops (something about the texture), but I will eat bacon and lamb. But sheep, pigs and cows are bred for meat. Horses in this country are not "bred" for meat - particularly those in the racing industry - they are bred for racing, so I think that's why I find it sad that they end up at Turners and Potters. But I am also of the impression that a lot of trainers do try to find homes for the ones which have good temprements, especially those out of national hunt training. It's not the trainers who are the bad guys, it's the owners - and I get the impression that it's not the big owners either. Only earlier today whilst watching Aintree, they were talking about one of the owners, Trevor Hemmings, I think it was, who keeps his horses over on the Isle of Man when they have finished racing. Unfortunately some syndicate owners who don't know the head from the arse of a horse are the ones who will never even consider what is going to happen to the horse if it's hopeless at racing and it no longer has a career.
 
brigantia said:
Alec, I hope you are right. But if what the journalist wrote was factual, then it is very sad.
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I doubt it's accurate. I read the mail online for the celeb gossip (oh, the shame of it!) and the writing is usually absolute poppycock and twaddle, so this piece will be no different. I've been to Turners and it was so calm and humane as it possibly could be. As has been said on this forum a thousand times, there are MUCH MUCH worse things to happen to an animal than a clean, swift death. Bleating on about how terrible it all is and how much our hearts break for them (mine included) isn't going to change anything. It's the difficult part that comes with owning any animal.
 
Kitsune said:
Horse racing isn't like pet horse ownership - it's a business to those in it - so no, I think you can bet your bottom dollar that no trainer or owner is going to sell their house, in order to preserve the life of one racehorse. Or ten. Or fifty.
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I hope you don't think all people involved in racing are like that. I know there are a lot of people like that, but a lot of people on here only focus on the negatives.
I know a hell of a lot of trainers that do everything they can to rehome their horses when they retire. It makes me mad that a lot of people assume the worst of every owner and trainer in horse racing....:(
 
To suggest that foals are shot to avoid paying the stud fees, is entirely wrong. In fact, to claim this is dangerous nonsense. The stud fee is due before the foal is born, generally on the 1st. October, following a covering. There are many stallion owners who are now offering a free return covering, in the event that filly foals are born, and any stallion owner would need to see a vet's report, in the event that a foal "died" at birth. A hole in the head would hardly be considered as a natural death.

There are many studs around the Newmarket area, and none, that I know, would ever countenance such behaviour.
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Alec, the article claims that foals were being slaughtered so that the owners didn't have to pay the stud fees. I was referencing the article.

There was a 2006 Guardian article that also reported stressed, agitated horses at Turner's reacting to the noise of gunshots by biting each other in the paddock where they were held. So it's not just the Daily Fail reporting this.

Again, I hope you're right that this is exaggeration and that these places are as humane as people here claim, but not having been there, I can't take that on blind faith.

Has the race industry changed at all since 2009 when the article was published? Do you think breeders are breeding in more conservative numbers now?
 
sending unwanted racers etc to the slaughter house is much more humane than passing them on to 'who knows who'. Here in Italy most racehorses and trotters will end up at the SH, those who are sold on cheaply usually end up in clandestine road racing and have a hell of an existence until they eventually end up at the SH or they become one of the many victims of these races (even the 'legal' ones are pretty horrendous).The horse in the pic was an ex racer used in the road races. He hit a parked car while being raced on the roads of Palermo city, fell, damaged his skull/neck, was dragged onto the pavement where they cut his throat. Now, in my opinion he would have been better off going from the track to the butcher without passing 'Go'. I realise that this doesn't happen in GB (?) but cruelty comes in many forms.
http://www.geapress.org/zoomafia/pa...rto-cavallo-–-attenzione-immagini-forti/13576
 
Fairynuff, that's horrible! Poor horse.

For some reason I didn't know you lived in Italy. How is slaughter viewed over there? How do Italian slaughter houses compare with UK slaughter houses? Do a lot of Italians actually eat horse meat.

Curious to get an international perspective.
 
brigantia said:
Fairynuff, that's horrible! Poor horse.

For some reason I didn't know you lived in Italy. How is slaughter viewed over there? How do Italian slaughter houses compare with UK slaughter houses? Do a lot of Italians actually eat horse meat.

Curious to get an international perspective.
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if they treat their horses the same as they treat their sheep god help them.
 
couldnt be doing with reading all those replys.

IMO, there are far worse things which could happen to these horses. they are plain and simply being overbred. THATS the problem.
 
Haven't read all the replys, have typed and deleated, but here's my two pennys worth.
My daughter, as part of her college course, had a visit to Potters and witnessed a few hoses being shot, she said the slaughter man was kind, calm and professional, and that she would have no problem if, God forbid our mare ever had to go that way, this is a mare we bottle fed because she was taken off her mother at 2 months old because they were both off for slaughter!
So I believe there are worse fates these horses can have, like the one Fairynuff has posted, thats just awfall, better a quick humane death and a cruel lingering one.
 
i thought italy was the biggest consumer of horsemeat in europe

the numbers quoted for horses slaughtered are probably on the low side, there is no account taken of horses sold in cash deals on the black, in england, on the continent i have been at sales and seen shetland foals bought for the freezer for cash also by private buyers, so figures there are unreliable, i doubt they are registered births!

if there was a centralised register for horses to meet up with buyers, specifically for horses on imminent slaughter alert some good animals could be saved, in principal something like the excellent one run by Miss varden for the co-ordination of orphan foals etc at the national foaling bank, everyone knows her and turns to her for advice, its about being known as an authority on the subject that gives the credibility to these systems, you have to start somewhere, experience would be gained and reputation earned, somewhere to turn to in situations like we are seeing now, horses abandoned at sales or sent off simply because owners have run out of money, where can the owners turn for help or advice? while at the same moment someone somewhere is looking for just that horse, and others could be fostered for say three months, i'm sure there are lots of folk who have lost a horse, got a spare stable etc who would love to help but don't know how to, and i'm talking here about decent sound horses who for no fault of their own are part of the carnage, but then some people are looking simply for a companion horse and an unproductive brood mare could do that, if it became a national institution like the foaling bank everyone would be aware of its existance and it could aleviate some of the current ongoing tragic waste.
 
That was really sad :( Makes me glad that the trainer who I work for keeps hold of his horses that are no good at racing and sells them either to people who work for him, people he knows or puts adverts up to find them new homes. He would never send a horse to slaughter and ensures they have a good home, he's given away a few horses, but only to people who work for him who he knows will look after them, which is how I got my Ethel. However, I always worry about the ones that are sent to the sales by their owners that go cheap and you never hear of them again in racing. They could be in loving homes out of racing, but you never know :(
 
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