Daily Mail, the slaughtering of racehorses.
- Thread starter Sugarplum Furry
- Start date
friesian80
Well-Known Member
Stop BREEDING THEM!!!!!!!!!
Since the last slaughter thread ive been speaking to a woman who had to visit one of the horse slaughterhouses through her uni course, she was appauled at the conditions.
I guess it all depends on when you go, who you say you are and how much notice you give before arriving.
I believe there are CCTV camera's in these slaughterhouses I just wonder who monitors them, I think they should randomly be shown to the public.
I personally HATE the racing industry but got pounced on by a few folk in the last thread for voicing my opinions as aparently it isnt that bad - load of tosh!!!!!!
If you want to quote any of the above and expect a reply think again im out of here!!!!
GrumpyHero
Well-Known Member
it saddens me that the poor foals are killed without being given a chance purely to save the cost of the breeder - if they can't afford the upkeep, then don't breed, simple.
the problem lies in the over production of horses for the races - there will always be horses bred for racing who aren't fast enough or don't show an interest in racing. it's just sad that there are so many of them.
whilst the thought of horse slaughter upsets me, now i've sat back and thought about it, i'd much rather a horse see its end quickly and painlessly rather than being passed from pillar to post and from one numpty to another, being underfed and abused along the way. i imagine the equine slaughter houses are highly specialised and the workers highly skilled considered there are only 2 horse abattoirs in the UK.
the bit about live export is bull - im pretty sure that it's outlawed in britain (feel free to correct me if im wrong though!)
the problem lies in the over production of horses for the races - there will always be horses bred for racing who aren't fast enough or don't show an interest in racing. it's just sad that there are so many of them.
whilst the thought of horse slaughter upsets me, now i've sat back and thought about it, i'd much rather a horse see its end quickly and painlessly rather than being passed from pillar to post and from one numpty to another, being underfed and abused along the way. i imagine the equine slaughter houses are highly specialised and the workers highly skilled considered there are only 2 horse abattoirs in the UK.
the bit about live export is bull - im pretty sure that it's outlawed in britain (feel free to correct me if im wrong though!)
Fox07
Well-Known Member
its horrible but a neccesary 'evil' I would also question the DM sources on this (And this is coming from a lifelong veggie!)
tristar
Well-Known Member
but they are broken as yearlings.
no two year old is sufficiently balanced physically it is in a state of growth.
there is some truth in the bone strengthening effect of exercise however this applies to all age groups and i can't see it used as a justification for training such young horses, its a case of using a statistic the way it suits your purpose.
no two year old is sufficiently balanced physically it is in a state of growth.
there is some truth in the bone strengthening effect of exercise however this applies to all age groups and i can't see it used as a justification for training such young horses, its a case of using a statistic the way it suits your purpose.
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
I decided to take up point to pointing this year and managed to get a class horse by Benefical (sold for over 40,000 euros in 2008) for free. The trainer I work for got another horse for free, which won first time out.
There have been record entries in point to pointing this after very poor entries last year. With TB's being so cheap many go on to have second careers, certainly 5 years I couldn't afford to point to point as the horse I have now would of set me back £5000+
Another thing that really really annoys me is the amound of people who say 'I wouldn't buy a tb ever'. This is just snobbery. There really is TB out there for everyone! I know one which is VERY quiet to hunt and hack for sale. I know one which could be show horse (perfect confo), good jumpers, good movers etc etc. A TB really can do every discipline. I wish I had the time to buy a few more!
(actually thinking about going to Doncaster to get a youngster but shhhh!)
Tristar- Only flat horses a broken as 1/2 year olds. Most jumping horses are unbacked until they 3 even 4 years old and ony start racing at 4/5 years old. Also a lot of horses are 'schooled' properly, a lot of trainers do gridwork, flatwork and roadwork.
There have been record entries in point to pointing this after very poor entries last year. With TB's being so cheap many go on to have second careers, certainly 5 years I couldn't afford to point to point as the horse I have now would of set me back £5000+
Another thing that really really annoys me is the amound of people who say 'I wouldn't buy a tb ever'. This is just snobbery. There really is TB out there for everyone! I know one which is VERY quiet to hunt and hack for sale. I know one which could be show horse (perfect confo), good jumpers, good movers etc etc. A TB really can do every discipline. I wish I had the time to buy a few more!
(actually thinking about going to Doncaster to get a youngster but shhhh!)
Tristar- Only flat horses a broken as 1/2 year olds. Most jumping horses are unbacked until they 3 even 4 years old and ony start racing at 4/5 years old. Also a lot of horses are 'schooled' properly, a lot of trainers do gridwork, flatwork and roadwork.
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Laafet
Well-Known Member
Ok so I have not read all the pages of this post but I will add my bit. I work in the Industry and yes we have shot mares over the last 12 months, they were uncommercial and TBH as most had varying issues that would not help them then I can see that it was better for them to be put down than to be passed on from pillar to post. I would rather have an unhappy horse is put down than end up with some fluffy who ends up 'killing them with kindness'. It is not just limited to Thoroughbreds, there are so many horses that are surplus to demand for reasons that are not their fault. My boss is a responsible breeder and would rather make sure that they never suffer, and we do not breed for the sake of breeding. We made heavy losses on our yearlings last year and only the best mares have been bred from.
Laafet
Well-Known Member
There is scientific research that supports early training benefitting TBs for their future careers, I should know I did my dissertation on it. I have also broken in and ridden TBs and I can see no wrong in it when done right, with a good trainer a horse that is not ready is turned away. Much better than forcing a warmblood (historically later maturing) into an outline with draw reins at 3 years old, and yes I have seen this too.
racingdemon
Well-Known Member
they are generally broken as long yearlings, so they are 18months +, and flat bred racehorses are bred to be quick maturing, different from the slower growing & developing NH horses, I appreciate you don't agree with it, but certainly the findings comparing true flat racing with NH flat (4yo) made very interesting reading.
IMO, i'd rather have a TB broken & ridden at 2 & 3 than a continental horse that has been lunged & loose schooled at 2 & 3, and it would be interesting to see what % of injury occurs in those WB that are intensively produced (without being ridden) from the same age.
IMO, i'd rather have a TB broken & ridden at 2 & 3 than a continental horse that has been lunged & loose schooled at 2 & 3, and it would be interesting to see what % of injury occurs in those WB that are intensively produced (without being ridden) from the same age.
brigantia
Well-Known Member
Love!!!
Laafet
Well-Known Member
Totally agree, it is easy for people to say ooooo racing is so cruel but until you have worked professionally with horses you have no idea what is going on. IMO there is some degree of abuse in top level competition due to the pressure to get horses to the level required quickly enough to please the owners. Harsh but true.
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
I wish people were educated on the subject of racing before posting rather than spouting rubbish, especially 'I once knew a horse...'
brigantia
Well-Known Member
This is interesting, Friesian80. I know in the 2006 Guardian article about race horse slaughter mentioned in another thread, the journalist reported stressed and anxious horses spooking at the noise of gun shots at Turner's. So if this information is coming from multiple sources and not just the Daily Fail, it might, sadly, be accurate. And everyone points to Turner's, not Potter's, interestingly.
racingdemon
Well-Known Member
having been to Turners on a number of occasions, i cannot fault them, very professional and nice with it.
racingdemon
Well-Known Member
too blinking true....!
where these perceptions come from I really don't know, even H&H does features that show racehorses jumping through grids, & being schooled conventionally! Maybe they should run a feature on the pre-training of racehorses!
far rather be a racehorse than a Continental WB!
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Do you have ANY idea of the number of people you are suggesting be sacked? Stud grooms, race yard grooms, transport managers, racecourse managers, racecourse ground staff, bookies clerks, farriers, vets, journalists and TV presenters, the nurses who are paid for by the huge taxes earned by betting on horses etc etc etc etc etc.
The surplus horses ARE needed when they are bred. They fill the hundreds of places in races at dozens of racecourses around the country every week. If they fail to impress at two and three they are culled from racing and the better ones go on to stud or race in the smaller number of better races. The industry is a pyramid of quality which depends for its very existence on a large number of young horses to start with.
What a load of unnecessary fuss about humane death. I have a friend who has been to Potters and selected horses on their feet to be given their legs when they are dead for foot research and she confirms that it is a quiet, gentle and humane death and that the horses showed no sign of fear.
The Daily Mail sells papers by creating as much daily upset and distress as it can. They do more harm than the racing industry ever has.
tristar
Well-Known Member
yes! so true domino, i too feel the tb is so misunderstood, i find they are economical to feed, have an amazing ability to recover from illness- injury, the very construction of a tb enhances its potential for athletic activities/soundness.
i wish more people could learn to ride better and enjoy riding tbs, they can be very reliable and rewarding to train, and vary greatly in their attitude, some well kind enough for the more sedate rider- activity, others the ride of your dreams, after a good tb everything else is a bit like a morris minor.
after what i've seen in the horse/animal world real life is more shocking than the dm report.
i wish more people could learn to ride better and enjoy riding tbs, they can be very reliable and rewarding to train, and vary greatly in their attitude, some well kind enough for the more sedate rider- activity, others the ride of your dreams, after a good tb everything else is a bit like a morris minor.
after what i've seen in the horse/animal world real life is more shocking than the dm report.
Wagtail
Horse servant
The article was very upsetting but I have to agree with the above. There is nothing different between slaughtering horses and slaughtering cows. I don't eat meat for that very reason. You can't be outraged at thekilling of one species of animal whn you don't bat an eyelid at the slaughter of another equally as intelligent andbeautiful creature. But yes, it is awful what is happening in the racing industry and it needs highlighting.
friesian80
Well-Known Member
Of course they were, you are the public and any 'company' would want to promote their business in a professional and effective manner!!!!!
As I say make them pass over the CCTV footage of the daily processing of the horses.
If we as a nation are concerned about horse welfare then why do we choose to believe the horses are dealt with in an acceptable manner by hear say or on the experience of a few members on forums who have visited them. (all would have given ntice before turning up).
any horse with a previous owner turning up is going to be given a good impression of the place, what about the thousands of horses who turn up who had nobody who cared for them ie unwanted young TB's from the racing indusrtry?
Let me be clear im not saying STOP horse slaughter im saying lets make sure all measures are being put in place to insure these horses are ALL being handled in a humane and sensitive way.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Eh? What a load of rubbish. My mare is permanently injured and a field ornament but certainly not buted up. I chose to let her live out her life so long as she is still happy. Horses are not a commodity as they are in the racing world. The problem is the over breeding of race horses in the first place, not the kind owners of much loved horses.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Well at the moment we have to choose to believe either a paper renowned for creating upset, and one second hand report from someone whose friend was appalled by the conditions at Turners ( I know plenty of people who would be appalled by any place where any animal was shot, never mind how good it was, so who was this person and what did they actually see) and the reports of a number of people who were happy with what they saw first hand.
Having met several horse slaughterers (have any of the "upset" posters on this thread met one?) I have found them without fail to have a genuine kindness for the horse they kill, taking pride in doing the best job they can for the animal. So I believe the people who tell me that they personally have seen what happens at Turners and Potters.
Wouldn't the world be a better place is if the people who get so upset at the quick death of horses cared as much about suffering people?
Having met several horse slaughterers (have any of the "upset" posters on this thread met one?) I have found them without fail to have a genuine kindness for the horse they kill, taking pride in doing the best job they can for the animal. So I believe the people who tell me that they personally have seen what happens at Turners and Potters.
Wouldn't the world be a better place is if the people who get so upset at the quick death of horses cared as much about suffering people?
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Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
And again the Daily Mail tells *******s. Liz Jones again I think, heard her on Womans Hour begining of the week spouting on how she keeps her horses, had me spitting my cuppa tea at the radio, taking a break from mucking my lot out and what do they know about racing,if you read their paper , you are lucky to get 2 paragraphs on racing.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I wonder what sort of person wants to work in a slaughter house?
What makes you think that caring for animals means you don't care for people? With the odd exception, I have found that aimal lovers are also the most compassionate with other people too. There is something wrong with people IMO who don't like animals or children.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
This isn't rubbish Wagtail. I have watched five friends/aquaintances with six different horses leave those old horses in pain with arthritis for at least one winter too many because they could not face the pain of losing them, so they did not allow themselves to see the evidence that their horses did not have a quality of life worth living. It happens all the time, by caring owners of much loved horses in particular. Not you, but certainly plenty of others.
Serenity087
Well-Known Member
Permanently injured... and not buted?
So in short - she is in permanent pain because you think she is "happy" with this state.
most of the "loving owners" in this thread seem to own Ex racing TBs.
So the difference between the industries is? Well? Come on then?
THERE ISN'T ONE!
As for "why breed the foals if they're just going to kill them". Learn to READ. They're killing foals they could afford LAST YEAR but not THIS YEAR and as a mare's gestation can be A YEAR that is kinda telling... don't ya think? (read what you will into that last question...)
And don't shed crocadile tears because of your niavity. Abortions and butchered calves/lambs/piglets can happen across the country. Why does your racehorse foal deserve to live anymore than that dairy bullcalf they shot to get your pint of milk in the fridge?
There's no freaking money. I'd rather they were shot responsibly and put out of the reach of doogooders and bunny huggers than left to starve.
teagreen
Well-Known Member
That sort of article preys on the impressionable, slightly simple public. The wild journalism, the headline about the poor little foals and the pictures - that grey horse is probably some dumped family riding horse that the kids eventually got bored of, contrasted with a cute little foal galloping through the buttercups.
Seriously, get a grip if you believe everything that says. You don't need a degree to figure out that there is a strong chance that it's way OTT and typically Daily Mail. If you did the decent thing and did some further research into the subject, if you really cared, you'd also find the same of Animal Aids website - cleverly laid out words and pictures designed to shock those who don't know any better.
The usual bunny hugging horse lovers who'd like to save all the lame/sick/old horses in the world and put them out to pasture see the word 'slaughter' and, rather than consider it the best end for an unwanted horse that could end up neglected and dying painfully, they associate it with the pictures in the leaflets that fall out of the Horse and Hound, horses in Mexico crammed into lorries and meeting a grizzly death. Doing some research before spouting off about how cruel slaughter is and how awful racing is wouldn't go amiss. It isn't like that here.
Seriously, get a grip if you believe everything that says. You don't need a degree to figure out that there is a strong chance that it's way OTT and typically Daily Mail. If you did the decent thing and did some further research into the subject, if you really cared, you'd also find the same of Animal Aids website - cleverly laid out words and pictures designed to shock those who don't know any better.
The usual bunny hugging horse lovers who'd like to save all the lame/sick/old horses in the world and put them out to pasture see the word 'slaughter' and, rather than consider it the best end for an unwanted horse that could end up neglected and dying painfully, they associate it with the pictures in the leaflets that fall out of the Horse and Hound, horses in Mexico crammed into lorries and meeting a grizzly death. Doing some research before spouting off about how cruel slaughter is and how awful racing is wouldn't go amiss. It isn't like that here.
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friesian80
Well-Known Member
So because our 2 slaughterhouses are better than the slaughterhouses in other countries who use methods such as breaking the spinal cord to kill the horse, we should just shut up and be happy?
Should we not be putting measures in place which would help make sure horses ARE killed humanely in every instance? Not just the horses who roll up in the back of a borsetrailer led by their owner or owners friend?
For all the natives, racing horses and horses brought in by low life dealers who dont have someone checking to see they are handled correctly we are just to 'assume' they get the same treatment?????
As ive said there are CCTV camera's in these slaughterhouses recording the daily processing. What would be wrong in us as a country insisting to check the footage every now and again????
If they have nothing to hide then surely it wouldnt be an issue and it would certainly rule out any accusations of unhumane treatment of the horses going through.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
The kind of person who doesn't have the brains or the money to take a veterinary degree but wants to earn a living in a good honest trade in a reliable job to support a family. Probably from an area where jobs for non-academic males are quite hard to come by. More useful to society by far than another media studies or equine studies graduate.
They are just nice people, doing a good and very necessary job.
Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
Wagtail. Over the years I've had to have my old horses put down and luckly for me at home. I've had the local hunt and the local Slaughterman and each time they have treated my horses with respect, also my 3 old cows and my last pig, yes it is a job to them but hey someone has to do it, and they do treat animals kindly, you do get the odd bad one. but you are implying there is something wrong mentally with someone who slaughters animals for a living.
tristar
Well-Known Member
i once knew a horse.... refers to a horse i personally owned after it was backed after 5 days in a racing yard, so however anyone else feels it is a fact, i personally would not back any horse without sufficient lunging preparation.
to compare warmblood marketing and production to racehorses does'nt add up both are wrong, too much too young, and i've been there and seen 2 yr olds jumping 5 ft on the continent, one owned incidently by a vet!
this is the 21st century we know better, there is no excuses or justification
i am sure in my heart that horses, in fact all animals sense death and given their developed sense of smell know what is going on in a slaughter house, i would not be being honest if i said otherwise.
to compare warmblood marketing and production to racehorses does'nt add up both are wrong, too much too young, and i've been there and seen 2 yr olds jumping 5 ft on the continent, one owned incidently by a vet!
this is the 21st century we know better, there is no excuses or justification
i am sure in my heart that horses, in fact all animals sense death and given their developed sense of smell know what is going on in a slaughter house, i would not be being honest if i said otherwise.