Daily turnout a legal requirement

[Ample Prosecco]

Daily turnout for horses compulsory by law: country leads the way on welfare - Horse & Hound

Horses should be given the opportunity to choose, is the message from a British rider working in Sweden, where the law states that daily turnout is a must. Melanie Swales lived in England and Scotland but is now in Sweden, where she works at a riding school, owns a horse and is studying equine...

www.horseandhound.co.uk

I think this is a good idea. If nothing else it might change perceptions of what level of turnout is acceptable.

But it would also change practice. My old YO insisted on turnout only every other day in winter. Another local yard has horses in between Nov-April. Owners not willing to tolerate that could point out that turn out is a legal requirement not a luxury.

 

[ycbm]

The article is behind a pay wall AE. Does it say how long the turnout must be for, in what size area and on what surface?

 

[TheMule]

The article is behind a pay wall AE. Does it say how long the turnout must be for, in what size area and on what surface?

'Although the rules do not state how long horses must be out, or give dimensions for the turnout area, they do say the horses must be allowed to move freely in their gait of choice.'

 

[ycbm]

'Although the rules do not state how long horses must be out, or give dimensions for the turnout area, they do say the horses must be allowed to move freely in their gait of choice.'

It sounds like throwing them into the school for half an hour while they're mucked out would meet that legal requirement. I wonder if the law has actually changed much for horses, particularly as a lot of Sweden is going to be frozen solid all winter.
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[Old school]

The lady interviewed in article mentioned that clients would be outraged if only six hours turn out per day was offered. She mentioned that they jigged equine groupings about until they best settled. They dealt with cuts/scrapes as part and parcel of life. Not as an issue.

Great to see this happening. Particularly in a country where winter climate is not so accommodating.

Is it Sweden has the fiery show jumping horse at Olympics that was barefoot? They really seem to be light years ahead in their ability to implement animal welfare at the highest level.

 

[Old school]

It sounds like throwing them into the school for half an hour while they're mucked out would meet that legal requirement. I wonder if the law has actually changed much for horses, particularly as a lot of Sweden is going to be frozen solid all winter.
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She mentioned a derrogation for facilities built some time ago that cannot offer the full requirement. Probably riding schools that have been surrounded by buildings over time. But it is a requirement for newer facilities.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

They need enough space to canter. There are exceptions for weather etc. I’m sure some people get around the rules but it would at least give voice to unhappy liveries, and change some people’s thinking on this.

It’s a lot better than here!

 

[ycbm]

The UK had an advanced eventer barefoot more than a decade back, Old School. I was hopeful it would be the start of more but it didn't happen.

I'd love to hear from someone with a wide knowledge of Sweden about how the laws are actually complied with, since they seem so loose. Better than nothing, I guess, though it would close many livery yards in the UK and make many others available only to very rich people.
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[dogatemysalad]

We looked at moving the horses to Denmark about 10 years ago. Welfare laws state that horses must be turned out for an absolute minium of 2 hours a day, unless for medical reasons. There are also requirements for the size of stable, natural light and ventilation.
Husband toured a livery yard there and asked whether DIY was an option. The manager initially didn't seem to understand the question, but after the concept was explained further, she smiled and said, oh no, we want the horses to be properly looked after.
The Danish culture is that owners either keep horses at home or they are kept on full livery.

 

[Surbie]

It sounds like throwing them into the school for half an hour while they're mucked out would meet that legal requirement. I wonder if the law has actually changed much for horses, particularly as a lot of Sweden is going to be frozen solid all winter.
.

It's a neighbouring country, but equally frozen - my cousin keeps hers on a DIY yard in Norway and they are all out every day, barring extreme weather, from latest 7am to 2-3pm. The fields are frozen, but with a decent covering of snow, and there is plenty of hay and insulated water.

eta: it's a lovely place, with a small school and hacking off the yard into the forest. They have very strict dog control laws so that isn't as much of an issue as here.

 

[Lexi 123]

I think the system the uk and Ireland we have is rare because DIY doesn’t really exist in any country . Our system does allow people to own horses that Otherwise couldn’t afford it. I have a friend that lived in the USA when she was younger she always Said you had to be rich if you wanted to have your own horse and didn’t own land in the USA because livery was massive money. in some countries most horses stay out 24/7 in Australia most horses live out and most people don’t have stables.

 

[Surbie]

I think the system the uk and Ireland we have is rare because DIY doesn’t really exist in any country .

It does exist in other countries.

 

[Gloi]

In some ways frozen solid is a lot easier to turnout on than clay and constant rain.

 

[Widgeon]

It does exist in other countries.

Yes...it may not be quite so formal but it definitely does exist. We have family friends in Denmark who have their horse on what is essentially DIY livery at a local farm / stables a short drive from their house. They also had lovely hacking straight into a "permit holders only" local forest - it was pretty idyllic really!

 

[marmalade76]

The lady interviewed in article mentioned that clients would be outraged if only six hours turn out per day was offered. She mentioned that they jigged equine groupings about until they best settled. They dealt with cuts/scrapes as part and parcel of life. Not as an issue.

Great to see this happening. Particularly in a country where winter climate is not so accommodating.

Is it Sweden has the fiery show jumping horse at Olympics that was barefoot? They really seem to be light years ahead in their ability to implement animal welfare at the highest level.

Yes, pretty sure it was in Sweden where they did an experiment in turning stallions out together, it was filmed & put on Facebook. They looked like warmbloods/sports horses, about a dozen of them, they were walked out to a big field with a row of shelters with bedding in them. First there was a lot of prancing & squealing, then there was a lot of galloping about, then a few hours later they were just hanging out, some grazing, some sharing the shelters, it was lovely to see.

 

[southerncomfort]

I know of 2 local studs that keep everything in, including mares, foals, yearlings etc, from November to mid May.

It's completely indefensible. If you don't have the land to turnout over winter/spring, then don't breed several foals every year!

It's b****y wicked.

I don't know if a law like this would help change things or not, but it would be a start.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

A stud I know keep youngsters in a barn set up over winter. 4 or 5 to a bay so not a lot of room for each horse. They have only just been turned out. One clients mare was stood in all winter , in foal , as her owner dare not lead her to the field. Now out with foal as stud are dealing with it. The owner of the stud doesnt seem to bother about whatever goes on.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I've posted on HHO mentioning this law on a thread 1 or 2 years ago, a HHO:er was moving to Sweden, and was worried about if she would be able to find a yard offering daily turnout. I told her that according to the law, it would be illegal for a yard to not provide year around daily turnout. (If something happens outside the Yard owner's control, such as unexpected temporarily flooded fields for example, then that's another matter.)
But of course, nothing is perfect, there's always some horse/yard owners who behaves like rotten eggs, and doesn't follow the laws, and one can hope that the safety nets works the way they're supposed to in those cases.

The big riding school in my city were I first started to learn to ride many years ago when I was little, didn't use to have any paddocks. They at least used to send off all their horses to another place during Summer for their horses to get daily turnout during at least those few months of the year.
I didn't think they would be able to comply with the law due to the other things that surrounds it, but to my surprise when I happened to bicycle past it, I saw that they'd managed to put up several paddocks.

I've just had a look at Google Maps satellite view to see what they've actually done.
The riding school is located in a hilly area, with sort of a corridor of trees on each side of the riding school. Among the trees between the street, and their parking lot it looks like they've put up maybe 11 or 12 paddocks in various shapes. In between the trees along one of the long sides of the building with the stables + indoor manéges, they've put up 2 or more of a bit larger paddocks, and on the backside where it used to be only trees + an outdoor manége, I think they've moved the outdoor manége a little bit (and put a roof over it), so it's now possible to get to the area behind it, and it looks as if they've put up 4 paddocks among those trees.

I presume it's not the only riding school in Sweden, located in a city surrounded by other stuff, who didn't use to have paddocks, who have tried their best to see if they can't squeeze in some paddocks somewhere nearby, so that their horses at least gets some time outdoors daily.

I somewhat recently replied to a thread asking about what happens to ex harness racers, where I mentioned that since I started following Swedish Trotting around 1982-1983-ish, I've always heard that Swedish Trotting trainers in general believes that daily turnout is important for "their" horses, to compensate for that we make them trot round and round on our unnatural oval courses.

By the way, I think the equivalent of DIY horse owning that you have in UK + Ireland also exists in Sweden. Although I don't think it's as common to e.g. rent a field to do your own DIY horse owning.

P.S. In some areas of Sweden, such as where I live, Winter is more likely to equal slush, and ice, rather than proper snow. But regardless of slush, ice, or snow, we're used to living here, and we're used to having to try to make things work also in these weather conditions.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

...
Is it Sweden has the fiery show jumping horse at Olympics that was barefoot? They really seem to be light years ahead in their ability to implement animal welfare at the highest level.

Both Fredricson's All In, and von Eckermann's King Edward competed barefoot in the Tokyo Olympics.

I've read a hoof blog/interview with the farrier who works for Fredricson, and often travels with the Swedish team as our national farrier, if anyone is interested, he e.g. shares a few pictures of hooves...

 

[lme]

I'd love to hear from someone with a wide knowledge of Sweden about how the laws are actually complied with, since they seem so loose. Better than nothing, I guess, though it would close many livery yards in the UK and make many others available only to very rich people.
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Would it be such a bad thing for yards to be required to prioritise horse welfare and owners to be expected to pay for this? We don't have a right to own horses irrespective of whether we can afford to keep them to a good standard.

 

[pootler]

I'm not sure how the racing fraternity would cope with that law. A lot of yards don't have access to any turnout, with some having 300 plus horses on site.

 

[fetlock]

Not sure how the Royal Mews would cope with it either

 

[ycbm]

Would it be such a bad thing for yards to be required to prioritise horse welfare and owners to be expected to pay for this? We don't have a right to own horses irrespective of whether we can afford to keep them to a good standard.

Of course not as long as everyone is happy to see horses in many areas of the country owned only by rich people.

Though I would prefer to see some proper scientific studies (no there are none that I know of - tiny numbers, short timescales, poorly argued conclusions) that it's better for horses never to be alive at all than to be kept in ways that are not natural to them.
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[Old school]

For centuries that had been the perception of the greater population. Why make a meal of it now?

 

[paddy555]

Would it be such a bad thing for yards to be required to prioritise horse welfare and owners to be expected to pay for this? We don't have a right to own horses irrespective of whether we can afford to keep them to a good standard.

no it wouldn't. There seems to be a lot of space taken up for car parks, indoors, outdoors, cross country courses, show jumping courses etc
not all areas has access to lots of grazing but it would improve horses lives considerable if they could be yarded with the chances to socialise, wander etc Small changes could improve horse's lives considerable but then owner's wouldn't want to give up their facilities. The whole design of traditional stable yards could improve horse's lives.

 

[JBM]

I would love that! I don’t like horses being stabled all the time
Some horses like to be in more obviously! But I think they need some time everyday to stretch their legs and horse about without being in work

 

[paddy555]

Of course not as long as everyone is happy to see horses in many areas of the country owned only by rich people.

Though I would prefer to see some proper scientific studies (no there are none that I know of - tiny numbers, short timescales, poorly argued conclusions) that it's better for horses never to be alive at all than to be kept in ways that are not natural to them.
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I'm not sure why any studies are needed. Surely it is down to the owner to have the skill to manage that particular animal(horse or any other animal)
ie a horseman rather that someone who has read a study. If you have to rely upon an argued conclusion then you (the general you) want a study to justify how you are keeping your horse. Instead of having "experts" who usually have an agenda telling one what to do learn to study your horse and work out what he wants.

How could a study quantify anything. I've had horses who just want to be in the yard or stable with me most of the time. The doors are open they can piss off if they choose to but they prefer to be with me.The natural life would most definitely not be for them. Equally ones who hate a stable, don't really want to know and demand a field for the best part of every day.

You can't lump all humans in together saying they all need this because a study says so and neither can you with animals

 

[Elno]

I live in Sweden and have a horse

Since joining this forum I've been often kind of amazed (and not in a good way) of some of the things you do in the UK.

Like for instance, what the actual F*** is a "Duvet day"? I live in the northern part of Sweden. Our winters are very long, and very cold. -25 in January is not uncommon. The only time my horse ever spent 24 hours in the stable without turnout was when we had a snow storm last year in April so severe, that all traffic was stopped and we had like 1 metre of snow fall in the matter of like half a day and severe wind. I would be outraged if my horse would be denied turn out on a daily basis for AT LEAST 8 hours (unless injured or on box rest obviously). When the average temperature is over +5 degrees celcius it is allowed to turn out horses 24/7 without any shelter. If less than that (during the winter that is) maximum allowed time is 16 hours if no shelter is provided. A conciderable part of horses in Sweden live out whole year round though, but obviously with access to a shelter. Studies have shown that horses kept this way are healthier and less prone to injuries than stalled horses.

 

[Elno]

The UK had an advanced eventer barefoot more than a decade back, Old School. I was hopeful it would be the start of more but it didn't happen.

I'd love to hear from someone with a wide knowledge of Sweden about how the laws are actually complied with, since they seem so loose. Better than nothing, I guess, though it would close many livery yards in the UK and make many others available only to very rich people.
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They are VERY MUCH complied with. We have a County Administrative Board with inspectors in every county that actually check upon that the rules are followed and also it is possible to anonymously report a fascility or a person to the board if you suspect that the animals welfare is being in jeopardy.

To own a horse in Sweden btw, costs alot more than in the UK, in some places the cost is somewhere around £750 a month just in stalling fees including hay and turnout.

 

[SantaVera]

Wish they would bring this law in here in the UK. There's a yard near me with zero winter turnout. Its just wrong.