Dallas Van Overis

[britbreeder]

You are correct, a good horse is untrashable, except by those who are obsessed and have too much time on their hands, which evidently Alleycat and Anet have. Go and find something else to do.

Can you count? There are more positive posts about Dallas than negative. The negative posts are mostly from Anet and Alleycat, who when you look back through recent weeks have serious personal issues (and a more than mild obsession) with Ken, who neither of you have ever met. Now people who actually look like they breed (it doesn't look like either of you actually breed anything BTW) and compete horses, seem to have rather good things to say about him. Remember you're attacking a stallion and owner who cannot defend themselves.

Sure, you're entitled to an opinion, but yours seem to be more based on anger, resentment and good old fashioned jealousy. I'm sure in your personal life you would consider yourself adults, could you act like that on this board perhaps?

Alleycat, the timing of this thread was so transparent, and nobody was fooled by it. The reason you're so angry, is that it backfired and you're looking more than a little stupid right now. It's so funny that you accuse Ken of promoting his stallion, where it's been stated a number of times that he doesn't do that at all, but don't let the truth get in the way your fantasy world. Of course you are promoting the stallion for him, which makes this thread all the more hilarious.

FYI (if you missed this already), I understand that Dallas covered 20 mares around the world in 2008, his first year at stud. Other than appearing on Ken's website and dvd, he had no other promotion. How many POS stallions that get pushed on this board, actually get anything like that number?

Somebody asked "why is this about Ken all of a sudden?"............................tell us why Alleycat?

Let it go, unclench a little, you're too uptight.

 

[jeanette10]

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except by those who are obsessed and have too much time on their hands, which evidently Alleycat and Anet have

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Well excuse me, why would a top breeding expert such as yourself (Ken)

feel a need to be frequenting all the forums if they were busy?? The fact that you are so desperate to continually come onto public forums shouts at me that it is you (Ken) who is obsessed.

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Can you count? There are more positive posts about Dallas than negative. The negative posts are mostly from Anet and Alleycat

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And can you count.....I only posted once about Dallas ("negative posts" means more than once) and everyone is entitled to their opinion (I mean we have heard plenty of what you have to say). I hardly see you defending the stallion anyway regarding what I said, so to a certain extent you must agree with my synopsis.

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when you look back through recent weeks have serious personal issues (and a more than mild obsession) with Ken

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Am sorry have only posted a handful of times regarding anything to do with Ken, and that was after his personal attacks! "Mild Obsession & serious personal issues " PMSL

i like your humour.

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who neither of you have ever met

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Tut tut, now that is where you are wrong!

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Now people who actually look like they breed (it doesn't look like either of you actually breed anything BTW) and compete horses

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And how would you know?

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Remember you're attacking a stallion and owner who cannot defend themselves.

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Pot and Kettle spring to mind on this one! Also when people ask questions about Weltmeyer, do you see Celle coming onto the public forums. Or perhaps Paul Schockemoele replies to those who speak about one of his stallions.

Get a grip, anyone with good business sense does not go onto public forums regarding their business!

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Good old fashioned jealousy

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What has Alleycat got to be jealous about, Ken is a good salesman (see something positive

, got to keep it balanced) but in my view no great breeding expert, although he can talk the talk (which he has to be able to do if he is to sell his product).

If I am wrong (and I have no problem with that, as none of us are perfect) then perhaps you could post his resume about all his breeding experience, and by this I mean "his" (or your

) breeding experiences, not just repeating what the "real" knowledgeable breeders have to say.

Also perhaps a list of what his homebred youngstock have done, any achievements to date etc.?

Now as you say, lets get back to the REAL topic of discussion, which is the stallion in question.

I stick by my points above, and if I am proved wrong then I dont have a problem with that.

At the end of the day people will either like/dislike any stallion, that is their opinion to have, and that is why there is a huge amount of stallions to choose from across the world. If they were all the same then the world would be a dull place.

 

[cruiseline]

I have gone over and over this thread, because I didn't understand why it had firstly gone on so long and secondly deteriorated into a person to person slanging match.

From my observations, right from the start that is what is was intended to be a personal attack on KenRehill and this is how I came to my conclusion!!!!!!

Initial post :-
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Can anyone tell me anything about this stallion?

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Second post:-
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Why- what's up with him?

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Third post :-
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Thanks very much, everyone. Very useful to have so much feedback and it has confirmed a lot of what I was thinking.

I saw this horse on Ken's website and didn't know what to make of him. I wondered if there was anything I was missing that made him special and which I wasn't seeing.

He's basically just a young hopeful, isn't he; a horse being campaigned on the hope that he is going to live up to his breeding and be as good as his famous relatives, standing at a knockdown price to attract the sort of mares he desperately needs to show he can make it as a stallion.

What threw me is that Ken has so many times on here stated that he is only interested in proven world class horses & that it is pointless breeding from anything else; the outlay is just a waste of money- and has gone on to treat other people's hopes & young hopefuls with such withering contempt, that it comes as a surprise to see him promoting such a horse himself. There again, if Ken was going to promote a youngster- let alone buy one- (assuming it is his own?)- I would have expected him to have invested in a more obvious (& marketable) athlete; so I wondered what I wasn't seeing. Whatever it is, plenty of others aren't seeing it either, so I'm still mystified but relieved that my eye isn't so far out.

The suggestion that this horse would suit TB mares caused me a bit of disbelief as well, especially after all that has recently been said on the subject. Whilst a TB would leaven the lump, so to speak, it wouldn't shape up the jump, would it? Wouldn't this horse actually suit a quality warmblood, if anything?

It'll be interesting to see whether he does shape up as he matures, or what he gets if mare owners do decide the low price is worth the risk.

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Alleycat............You obviously didn't like the stallion before the thread even started (or was it the owner).

I wish people would take their personal grievances elsewhere and not try to hoodwink the rest of the forum into backing them up.

Its just so petty, although I have now seen a possible stallion to use for the future.

 

[jeanette10]

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I wish people would take their personal grievances elsewhere and not try to hoodwink the rest of the forum into backing them up.


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Even if Alleycat does not like the stallion, the thread has included both positive and negative comments. So cannot see how their OP would have worked to their advantage, because they would have known that with it being a public forum people could have said anything, be it good or bad.

He caused a lot of ill feeling on this forum, and that is a fact. This has been through personal attacks. And you only have to look at all the posts that Britbreeder has been involved in to know that they are him/or very close to him.

Now whether they have an obsession for public forums that is fuelled by their passion for breeding, or trying their hardest to slate every other person for their own breeding programme, then that is something we have yet to see for sure!

Cruiseline, you may not feel aggrieved but its obvious for anyone to see he caused great animosity for others. I also find it a bit sad that core users such as yourself were not there to say the same to Ken when he was throwing about his personal attacks at others, but am sure you were watching what was being said. So its a bit of double standards here I think.

I will agree with other users in the fact that he did post some good threads which would make you stand back and think, and I am sure that was what he was hoping would be the case. Its just a shame his altered ego would get the better of him

. He had some very valid points and could be quite amusing, and yes the forum "was" (I say this beause I am still not convinced

) quiet without him.

Had he kept it on a professional basis then he would still be here today under his own user name.

 

[cruiseline]

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Cruiseline, you may not feel aggrieved but its obvious for anyone to see he caused great animosity for others. I also find it a bit sad that core users such as yourself were not there to say the same to Ken when he was throwing about his personal attacks at others, but am sure you were watching what was being said. So its a bit of double standards here I think.


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I would hope that I do not post 'double standards' as you have suggested, as an adult I chose to ignore the bickering!!!!!! If I have something I feel is valid, I will post, I have been wrong on several occasions, for which I have corrected myself on and learnt from.

KenRehill has been outspoken in the past and I, on more than one occasion, have pointed this out to him. However this thread was IMO started as an obvious dig at a member of the forum.

Plain and simple.

 

[britbreeder]

It's just so funny when singular get turned into plural in order to prove a point.

Anet, you'll have heard this phrase before......."you only speak for yourself and no one else" You are not the forum police, and you are not the great protector of other people, so when you say "he caused a lot of ill feeling" he generally caused that ill feeling with people who are just on this forum to give themselves a sad existence, because they have nothing better to do. The were evidently a group of people who no little or nothing about performance horse breeding. You always conveniently forget the flip side, which is that a lot of people genuinely enjoyed what Ken had to say. Anyway, what's your beef? You not even a breeder.

Alleycat, the same applies to you, but hilariously your attempted slur on Dallas van Overis has probably only resulted in sales for him in 2009, which probably infuriates you. Loser.

To the pair of you complete juveniles, what you have done here (which failed in it's primary objective) is make personal attacks against both a horse and an owner. And yet you specifically state that this was Ken's standard MO. Pathetic. What's this "he did it first miss" stance?. Grow up the pair of you, you've made yourselves look like a couple of four year olds, who should be skulking away licking their wounds, feeling more than a little stupid.

Where are the positive posts that you have made on this forum? Do you have anything to add? do you know anything about breeding that you can share with us? Not by the look of your previous posts. So what the hell are you doing here? Just giving your empty lives a reason to continue, because in having an argument with someone it means you exist. Get a life the pair of you.

 

[southsidestud]

im telling myself not to get involved but i do agree with Cruiseline on this the thread was made on the strength of getting into a argument the "HELLO Ken" Again is getting boring if you have personal issues with ken please take it off them board for the people that Ken may have affended on threads i cant see any of them joining in in this debate id say because there not worried...prob water off a ducks back

 

[springfallstud]

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Cruiseline, I also find it a bit sad that core users such as yourself were not there to say the same to Ken when he was throwing about his personal attacks at others, but am sure you were watching what was being said. So its a bit of double standards here I think.



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The weekend "Ken" was banned on this forum me and Cruiseline were at the BEF Elite Champs, I was told by people there things were kicking of on here but the thread/s were deleted by Admin by the time i got to log in on the Monday morning and if i remember correctly Cruiseline dosnt come on much when she is in the UK

 

[britbreeder]

There you go cruiseline, you disagree with these obsessives and you get the same kind of crap. It's nothing personal by the look of things, they just have nothing better to do.

 

[cruiseline]

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Cruiseline, I also find it a bit sad that core users such as yourself were not there to say the same to Ken when he was throwing about his personal attacks at others, but am sure you were watching what was being said. So its a bit of double standards here I think.



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The weekend "Ken" was banned on this forum me and Cruiseline were at the BEF Elite Champs, I was told by people there things were kicking of on here but the thread/s were deleted by Admin by the time i got to log in on the Monday morning and if i remember correctly Cruiseline dosnt come on much when she is in the UK

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Ohhhhhh thanks for filling me in Springfallstud, I missed all that, no I don't get to log on when I'm way, can never remember my password

 

[jeanette10]

Nothing like hitting a nerve.

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The were evidently a group of people who no little or nothing about performance horse breeding.

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and where are the hard facts to substantiate that you do?



Which leads me onto the question I posed above, which you have conveniently ignored:

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perhaps you could post his resume about all his breeding experience, and by this I mean "his" (or your ) breeding experiences, not just repeating what the "real" knowledgeable breeders have to say. Also perhaps a list of what his homebred youngstock have done, any achievements to date etc.?

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Answers on a postcard please.



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personal attacks against both a horse

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I have not, I have given my opinion on a horse. So basically what you are saying is that if you like the horse its an "opinion", but if you dislike the horse its a "personal attack"?? Let me ponder on that for a moment.


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people who are just on this forum to give themselves a sad existence, because they have nothing better to do

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A bit like yourself then, since you are on here most the time.

 

[jeanette10]

Ooops, almost forgot:

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So what the hell are you doing here? Just giving your empty lives a reason to continue, because in having an argument with someone it means you exist.

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Right back at you kid! Its almost like you are speaking about yourself on this thread.

 

[gregforrest]

I met Ken for the very first time the night he bought Dallas. I thought he was mad and had had too much champagne, he probably thought I was barking mad (and he was right).
A few years down the line Dallas still has super breeding (like class it never disappears).
He is only a young horse starting off in the sport - and as far as I can see very commendable results so give him a chance.
Would I use him? No because he does not suit our mares and he is not our taste as our own stallions are much more blood type but that is a personal preference. What I can say is that his terms are very good for somebody with the right type of mare. Full stop. Make your own minds up and leave the childish insults off the forum (however entertaining they may be to a casual reader).

 

[alleycat]

Hi again everyone. I see I owe you an explanation. I'm afraid its going to be long.

This post was first and foremost supposed to be about Dallas van Overis; but Ken being who he is, and the feedback being what it was, it was impossible for me to separate the horse from its owner. Ken is the more colourful character, so I'll start with him.

When Ken first began posting, although I frequently (always?) disagreed, I had a quite a lot of respect for him. He was singleminded and put his cards on the table, fearlessly laying his views open to criticism. He repeatedly stated his belief that to use anything but a World Class animal - defining World Class as being in the top 100 by competition results- was pointless, and gave the impression that he regarded anyone who used one as a rank amateur. Well made and high- performing horses in this country, produced by small studs with limited resources, were dismissed with a sneer because they were not in the top league tables of results; similarly whole breeds (TB, ID) dear to British breeding but which generally appear in sportshorse listings as crossbreds were written off by Ken in various arguments, many of which must still exist on earlier postings, if anyone can be bothered to go & look for them. British gradings were dismissed as useless; ungraded horses of any description, were "a pile of cr@p"; a young, small forward thinking breed society was treated with contempt because they could not field the number of winners that the big, established societies could manage. The future was the Selle Francais and Zangersheide. I acted as an apologist for Ken in some of these discussions, feeling that whilst I couldn't agree, his brave singlemindedness was in some way an excuse for his bullying attitude and that there was a sort of bluff honesty about his blinkered and uncompromising approach. Besides, his combative posts and uncompromising views were always entertaining, even when (especially when?) he lost control and started on the personal invective. I'm afraid I quite enjoyed these posts to start with ( as in "pass the popcorn") but began to sicken of them; either I became more sensitive to the damage that they could do or Ken became even more bullish in his attitude & with it more extreme.

Around the time when In Style was doing so well at the Olympics a most peculiar post appeared from Ken, noting his resemblance and relationship to Dallas van Overis. I thought "Who on earth is DvO?" The post was clearly a "puff" of some kind. I expected animated discussion, but it fell flat.

Then a whole saga opened up in which Foxfolly requested advice re. her young stallion and found herself in the middle of World War III. She handled it with considerable good sense & good humour, even though at least one thread was deleted by Admin following a tirade of personal abuse from Ken which some of you will remember. Someone else (keoffee?) posted regarding the way this forum had degenerated into uncivilised argument; (sorry keofee- don't hate me too much for this thread!) and THAT one ended with Ken accusing Anastasia of fraudulently misrepresenting her stallion on her website by claiming that it was a halfbrother to another horse by the same sire (genetically true, but of course "half brother" is reserved for foals out of the same dam) No one else actually saw this alleged misrepresentation- Ken claimed she had sneakily deleted it, and then went on to so insult other forum members to the extent that one long time member has now withdrawn from the forum. THAT string got so heated that it was deleted and Ken banned.

In all this time I behaved much as you, and others, have done, Cruiseline, in THIS post; I made allowances and tried to be fair. However, though I still admired Ken’s determination & single-mindedness, I was beginning to feel that Ken's contributions were actually rather poisonous, rather than stimulating & thought-provoking, as they had seemed at first.

Then I stumbled again upon Dallas van Overis. He was on Ken’s website & promoted by Ken- so he HAD to be World Class; nothing else would accord with Ken’s strongly held views. Ken had mentioned this horse, out of all the others which he promotes, in connection with an Olympic champion; and singled out the dams of these two horses as sisters! (Of COURSE this would be true; Ken, from his persecution of Anastasia, clearly understood the importance of precision and truthfulness in these matters ). When I watched the horse on video I was disappointed. He looked- ordinary. Clumsy. I felt he trailed his legs and seemed almost underpowered for such a big horse, though it seemed to me that he was well & sensitively ridden.

My first thought was to doubt my own judgement. I am only just learning my way around sports horses; maybe this one had hidden depths that I was not seeing; or maybe there was something specific that was holding him back & which again I was not seeing. (This may even be true; several people have felt that he will improve as he matures). When I looked closer, he was incredibly cheap; though as Ken has pointed out a cheap stud fee is likely to be a false economy. He was also well bred- though not quite in the way that Ken had suggested in that the dams of Dallas & In Style were not full siblings.

I was uncomfortable with Ken’s error; it looked so much like deceit.

I wondered whether to post about this horse, but decided to wait until Ken’s return. I also heard a rumour that Ken owned the horse; but why would he bother? He of all people had access to all those World Class stallions that he constantly urged us all to use, and was always very quick to deride the stallion-keeping ambitions of others. Clearly this HAD to be something special, yet I couldn’t see it. I looked at its grading; AES; a BRITISH society? After all he had said about the worth of British breeding organisations?

Then Ken returned in the guise of Britbreeder, launching immediately into a sneering & derogatory tirade against Irish Draughts, with particular reference to their size, weight and (supposed) poor action. I looked again at Dallas. A good Irish Draught would easily deal with those jumps, I thought, & with a lot more verve & style than this young horse. Ken had another go- TB eventers this time; not a discussion nor an invitation to discuss; just a snide comment.

That was enough, I’m afraid. I posted.

However, I was in two minds when I first posted. I still wanted to be persuaded by some knowledgeable breeders that this young horse DID have something special. On the other hand, if I was a bit dismissive, I felt Ken might launch in in its defence & offer some explanation for standing this unproven, British graded, heavy, rather “clunky” young horse in defiance of all that he has previously preached. I was beginning to feel that the only real explanation was that Ken has one rule for himself and another for other people, but had he come up with something convincing I would still have been happy to believe it.

The replies were really interesting. Contrary to Ken’s assessment, they came out about 50/50 for & against, with a strong sense of waiting to see by a large third group. Age was put forward as a likely excuse for that sense of clumsiness; we shall see next year. Several people liked the chunkiness but one poster cited a well proven Irish horse as a preferable option; several people picked up on the lack of spring and lightness and the poor jumping style. I’m afraid (with some disappointment) that I have to concur with Anet’s blunt but honest judgement and thank her for her courage in sticking up for good sense in the face of the inevitable personal attack from Ken.

I’m sorry if anyone feels “used” by this post; it wasn’t my intention; I really DID want to know if other people saw this horse as I did, or if there was something I wasn’t seeing.

Whether or not the horse succeeds or fails doesn't matter to me; or whether more people use it as a result of this thread. I'll be interested to see the foals though.

However, I will admit I was angry with Ken when I posted; with his sheer needless nastiness to others and his refusal to leave the personal out of it; his poisonous undermining of others' success and delight. However, my anger, along with my trust in his judgement and my sense of his integrity- has quite evaporated.

 

[Foxfolly]

I thought Cruiseline had hit the nail on the head with her thoughts on this post.. but after your explanation maybe it was a more genuine post than I thought! Sorry for doubting you!

You have been very open and honest and fair play to you for going into so much detail, you didn't have to!!

I must admit I am pretty sure BB isn't Ken although is obviously a close firend and yes...was harsh to JG (But I think that might be the hunting connection!!) has actually posted some good posts with very valid aguements and in a lot less aggressive manner than Ken used to!!