Dangerous dog law ?

[Amymay Again]

There's a lot of 'if's' .....but he DID hold onto it. None of us knows how injured this chap is. He may even have had the dog put down. Or he might only have a slight bite. We don't know. Surely the injured party has to do the reporting? It'd be an awful world if every dog who had a bark at someone was ordered to be killed because someone saw it. Everyone is paparazzi judge and jury these days.

Are we reading the same thread

 

[JenJ]

If the owner had to be treated in hospital, wouldn't the hospital be obliged to report something?

 

[Sleighfarer]

Hospitals do collect information about patients admitted as a result of dog bites and that ultimately ends up in the ONS statistics. I'm not sure they would have to report it to the police, though.

 

[Boulty]

If you’ve got a dog warden in your area I’d report to them. That the dog made you feel afraid (nvm what it did to owner) is enough to technically be in breach of current law as written. Not saying it’s always enforced but they’re more likely to have time to investigate if police won’t

 

[CrazyMare]

If the owner had to be treated in hospital, wouldn't the hospital be obliged to report something?

No. We have statutory reporting for stab wounds and gun shot wounds but not dog bites

 

[misst]

Children with dog bites from family pets are always referred to SS as a safeguarding issue where I worked. Even if it was a "nip". That was a deprived area with a lot of dodgy dogs and adults.

 

[skinnydipper]

@bonny. Did you manage to speak to someone yesterday to report the attack?

 

[bonny]

@bonny. Did you manage to speak to someone yesterday to report the attack?

Not yet, I have tried 101 several times but it doesn’t feel like I would ever get to talk to anyone, pretty rubbish service really. I will look to see how to report it online tonight if all else fails.

 

[CarlungM]

Report on line then . Seriously, the dog could have floored you or attacked your dog. Next time someone might not be so lucky.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How are you doing, Bonny? And how is your dog?

It will have been such a shocking thing to witness.

 

[bonny]

How are you doing, Bonny? And how is your dog?

It will have been such a shocking thing to witness.

I’m surprised at how shaken up I am, trying not to view other dogs warily today as they approach and have to remind myself that most are absolutely fine. My dog is worried about big dogs anyway, there are too many that act aggressively, on the lead or not. Makes me want to move to somewhere quieter in an ideal world.

 

[fiwen30]

If you’re able to, I’d strongly suggest playing Tetris for a while.

It sounds left field, but studies have shown that playing Tetris as soon as possible after a traumatic event can help the brain. And this definitely counts as traumatic.

It may impact you more than you think I the coming days and weeks, so please don’t brush it off, and maybe be open to the idea of speaking to a professional about it.

 

[Time for Tea]

I don’t understand why some people are so blasé about aggression in dogs. This dog brought a grown man to the ground in a public place and injured him sufficiently to put him in hospital. Of course the police should be involved.

I feel terribly sorry for the dog, which has perhaps had a bad start in life or been badly bred. But I would not like to meet such an animal when I am out walking my own GSD. You just can’t have such animals able to get free and attack other people or other dogs. I know the dog did not actually do so. Nevertheless a narrow escape. Really shattering to witness.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Looking at it another way, a dog unhappy enough to think attacking its owner is an option is very unhappy indeed, they aren't born wanting to do that and pts is probably a blessed relief, better than taking off its owner and removing to another home or kennels seeing as upheaval is inherently a stressful thing for any animal, let alone one that's not mentally balanced or set up to cope well. It is sad in a way because it is people letting a dog down, which is always sad and frustrating, but euthanasia itself isn't a bad outcome for teh animal.
Like we say with horses the behaviour is communicating something and a dog which attacks someone is screaming very loudly.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Looking at it another way, a dog unhappy enough to think attacking its owner is an option is very unhappy indeed, they aren't born wanting to do that

It is sad in a way because it is people letting a dog down,

Like we say with horses the behaviour is communicating something and a dog which attacks someone is screaming very loudly

Not necessarily. It's not actually uncommon for high drive dogs to redirect when in a state of high arousal and yes, I'm afraid most of the time, they are born like that.
The dog isn't thinking 'I'm going to attack my owner now', it's been (thankfully) restricted from expressing itself/doing what it wants to do (go over to Bonny's dog) and it has vented on the nearest thing, which is usually the person holding it. Add some thrashing around and high pitched noises, then the person becomes prey and the behaviour becomes more and more self fulfilling.
A police dog was shot after turning on its handler last year. People get bitten all the time trying to separate fighting dogs. At a low level, you'll see a lot of agility dogs absolutely milling a toy after a run or while waiting for one. It's all redirection.

I'm glad the OP is physically OK and that the guy managed to hang onto his dog. I'm not condoning what happened, but you can't apply human logic to a dog's way of thinking.
I would hope that if the dog has done enough damage to make the owner an inpatient in hospital, he's probably going to do the deed anyway.

 

[Time for Tea]

Not necessarily. It's not actually uncommon for high drive dogs to redirect when in a state of high arousal and yes, I'm afraid most of the time, they are born like that.
The dog isn't thinking 'I'm going to attack my owner now', it's been (thankfully) restricted from expressing itself/doing what it wants to do (go over to Bonny's dog) and it has vented on the nearest thing, which is usually the person holding it. Add some thrashing around and high pitched noises, then the person becomes prey and the behaviour becomes more and more self fulfilling.
A police dog was shot after turning on its handler last year. People get bitten all the time trying to separate fighting dogs. At a low level, you'll see a lot of agility dogs absolutely milling a toy after a run or while waiting for one. It's all redirection.

I'm glad the OP is physically OK and that the guy managed to hang onto his dog. I'm not condoning what happened, but you can't apply human logic to a dog's way of thinking.
I would hope that if the dog has done enough damage to make the owner an inpatient in hospital, he's probably going to do the deed anyway.

You’ve reminded me about my sister’s obedience dogs. They used to get so keyed up working, when they finished they used to leap up level with her face and snap at her nose. Either redirection or letting off steam. They used to go crazy with toys as well.

 

[stormox]

Looking at it another way, a dog unhappy enough to think attacking its owner is an option is very unhappy indeed, they aren't born wanting to do that and pts is probably a blessed relief, better than taking off its owner and removing to another home or kennels seeing as upheaval is inherently a stressful thing for any animal, let alone one that's not mentally balanced or set up to cope well. It is sad in a way because it is people letting a dog down, which is always sad and frustrating, but euthanasia itself isn't a bad outcome for teh animal.
Like we say with horses the behaviour is communicating something and a dog which attacks someone is screaming very loudly.

That actually isn't true. Some dogs are born with a very strong prey drive and will try to get their quarry no matter what gets in their way. Even if it's their owner.
It's considered normal to have a dog "come back at you" when in a high state of drive, and in some dog sports it's actively encouraged.
"Unhappiness" doesn't come into it.

 

[CorvusCorax]

In what setting would it be actively encouraged for a dog to vent on the handler by biting them?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

In what setting would it be actively encouraged for a dog to vent on the handler by biting them?

Ok, I am not a dog person but surely none? Shouldn't snapping/biting be discouraged at all costs?

 

[stormox]

In what setting would it be actively encouraged for a dog to vent on the handler by biting them?

You are reading things into my post that are not there. I did not say dogs should bite their handlers. I did not say dogs should " vent on" their handlers.
However, the moment before a bite is a moment of intense focus. This focus is what handlers try to achieve, especially in ring sport, even in sports like pure obedience. It is mostly (especially nowadays), obtained with R+ training. I have however seen handlers pinch the dog on their back or shoulder to get the focus on them, the next stage would be a bite but the "dogs revenge" is stopped from going that far by skilled handling.

 

[JenJ]

You are reading things into my post that are not there. I did not say dogs should bite their handlers. I did not say dogs should " vent on" their handlers.
However, the moment before a bite is a moment of intense focus. This focus is what handlers try to achieve, especially in ring sport, even in sports like pure obedience. It is mostly (especially nowadays), obtained with R+ training. I have however seen handlers pinch the dog on their back or shoulder to get the focus on them, the next stage would be a bite but the "dogs revenge" is stopped from going that far by skilled handling.

Maybe dogs shouldn't be 'sport'.

 

[stormox]

Maybe dogs shouldn't be 'sport'.

In that case, nor horses. Riders tap their horses on the shoulder to say "I'm here, focus, we're going jumping....."

 

[skinnydipper]

It's considered normal to have a dog "come back at you" when in a high state of drive, and in some dog sports it's actively encouraged.

Please could you explain what you mean by "have a dog come back at you" and in which sports is this actively encouraged?

 

[JenJ]

In that case, nor horses. Riders tap their horses on the shoulder to say "I'm here, focus, we're going jumping....."

Indeed, and this issue was brought to the fore this summer with the shenanigans around the Olympics, though talk seems to have faded away since.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Please could you explain what you mean by "have a dog come back at you" and in which sports is this actively encouraged?

Yes, this was my question. I know what a dog coming back at you is, but not in what sports it is actively encouraged.

 

[CorvusCorax]

You are reading things into my post that are not there. I did not say dogs should bite their handlers. I did not say dogs should " vent on" their handlers.
However, the moment before a bite is a moment of intense focus. This focus is what handlers try to achieve, especially in ring sport, even in sports like pure obedience. It is mostly (especially nowadays), obtained with R+ training. I have however seen handlers pinch the dog on their back or shoulder to get the focus on them, the next stage would be a bite but the "dogs revenge" is stopped from going that far by skilled handling.

The moment of focus before a bite and focused heeling are two completely different things IMO.

Pinching dogs is very old fashioned and pretty stupid and not the same as actively encouraging a dog to come back on the handler.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Maybe dogs shouldn't be 'sport'.

Then say goodbye to obedience, agility, scentwork, hoopers, etc etc etc, which give a lot of high drive dogs an outlet. You can say goodbye to police and army and search and rescue dogs because working and sports breeding go hand in hand.
I got into dog sports because I had a dog who was dog aggressive. It's easier to prevent different types of aggression and redirection when you understand why it all happens and how to turn it on and off, manage or channel it.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Indeed, and this issue was brought to the fore this summer with the shenanigans around the Olympics, though talk seems to have faded away since.

Wait, if youre anti horse and dog sport, why are have a membership to a forum called horse and hound?

(not tryig to start an argument - just nosy).

 

[JenJ]

Wait, if youre anti horse and dog sport, why are have a membership to a forum called horse and hound?

(not tryig to start an argument - just nosy).

I'm not

 

[Indy]

Wait, if youre anti horse and dog sport, why are have a membership to a forum called horse and hound?

(not tryig to start an argument - just nosy).

I don't agree with hunting which the first thing what springs to mind when you say horse and hound. I'm here for the wealth of knowledge on things horses and dogs and the life experiences of people from all walks of life.