Dangerous horses - where do you draw the line?

I had a share horse, 16.2 maxi cob. Unfit when I got him allegedly due to owners pregnacy. Spent a few weeks fittening him up in walk then trot. First time I went for a canter he took off, couldn't circle at al,l no response at all. As we went around a corner at a full gallop he fell and I was lucky to fall clear but still had a bad break to my wrist.
Started riding him again but just in the arena as I had no strength. One day he just took off again, we were in a small indoor and I truely thought we were going through the wall. Untacking I was talking to the girl in the next stable. She she asked why on earth I was risking my life on someone elses horse. Couldn't give a reasonable response to decided to give him up! Interestingly the owner has had baby, 18 months ago and still doesnt ride him.
I used to get on any horse, nothing scared me. Now I am much more careful, doesn't scare me but why get hurt when you need to be.
 
We bred two by a French stallion and both were incredibly difficult as youngsters.
We persevered with both but felt neither were ready for sale until aged 7.
One is no longer with us due to an accident but the other has turned into the most amazing horse who jumps as well as he dressages; he will never be a beginner's ride but will happily help the average rider once worked in by a more experienced one. He is still testing his boundaries even at 8, but we no longer get the rodeo horse type explosions which made us debate whether it was worth carrying on with him.
We get lots of young horses in to train, often it's a case of quiet but firm handling, ie if something flatly refuses to tie up you don't move onto anything else until that issue is fixed. The majority of horses who are impossible are usually the result of bad handling/riding or pain in their bodies. The saddle fit is so important, yet often that isn't taken seriously enough.
I do think there are some horses who need to have professional type riders, because they are sufficiently clever to always push their luck, and if allowed an inch take a mile which soon becomes a huge problem unless nipped in the bud right away.
 
Fiagai said:
No real comment on what is depicted in this link to a horse attack incident in India - except it shows a horse in attack mode

Despite the headline not sure they guy was actually bitten "to death"!

LINK
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I dread to even think what had been done to that poor horse to make it turn into an aggressor like that, unless it was rabid. Poor poor animal. He has my sympathy far more than the man does... :( :( :(
As for anyone stupid enough to try to kick away a horse while they're on the ground... jeeez.
 
kerilli said:
Jeeez. Bullet. no question. That is downright nasty, and what on earth is the point of a nasty useless horse?
And as for it being at a college... words fail me.
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It was nearly twenty years ago and it was a comp yard aswell. This horse was there as one of the instructors' 'own' horses. I think the two old ladies must have been paying well but not quite well enough as he was sent back eventually. The last I heard of him was that they were using him to cover!! :eek: Never heard of since.
 
Jenni_ said:
When I worked at Gleneagles, the head instructor had a horse who was Satan with 4 legs ( sorry if you see this!) he ragdolled staff SEVERLEY, and he was just evil up to the eyeballs. Lived in a muzzle out the stable, only some of the staff would work with him. You had to put a carrot In the muzzle and carefully position it over his face... Once the muzzle was on he was generally ok, he knew he couldnt get you.

Once he was being ridden though he was completely different! Amazing horse, she did dressage with him. And seemingly at competitions he was so placid and her young daughter could handle him, he even never looked at anyone the wrong way when he was out.

I hacked him out once, and I was terrified! But he was perfect in every way and he felt AMAZING.

I was lucky he never caught me, but the girl he rag dolleds injuries were horrendous - he literally threw her about the field. Plenty other people got bitten whilst I was there too.

I dont know if she still has him! This was 2008/2009 time.
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See, he had some redeeming features, the one I knew had none at all!
 
Wouldnt put up with too much , e.g. flippers are a big no no.
At the end of the day theres millions of horses out there but only one of me. This is my career and I cannot afford to get seriously injured for the sake of one horse.
 
If a horse had no fear for it's own safety I wouldn't keep it if you paid me. I had a TB like that, he was very skinny when I got him and very quiet, as soon as he put on weight and condition he changed. He would do whatever it took to get you off his back, I've never known a horse have so many different styles of bucking! He'd even buck going down hills that he slid down just walking. I called it a day when he decided rearing wasn't enough he was going to start going over backwards too. Funnily enough you could stick a complete beginner on him and he was an angel it was just experienced riders he didn't like. :confused:
 
kirstyhen said:
Personally I wouldn't tolerate an awful lot regardless of breeding, potential, etc. but that is because I have zero confidence and if I had something that was constantly threatening to deck me/attack me, it would never reach that potential as I would never do anything with it for fear of getting hurt!

But I know plenty of people that put up with lots, have worked through issues and have lovely (ish!) horses now, it's just not my cup of tea! :D
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This!

I can't believe some of the nutters I used to ride as a teen, I wouldn't touch such horses with a bargepole now.

I've had a serious head injury (double barreled in the face) and still have constant pain, limited mobility, and a whole load of health issues. However, the horse in question is the sweetest horse is the world, it was a completely freak occurance that she caught me in the face and I was quite upset when people suggested giving her a double barreling back with a shotgun :( BUT a horse than did intend such an injury or set out to hurt people - well, I wouldn't give it anything close to a second chance I'm afraid.
 
Interesting thread. I am trying to make the deicision now - have an 8 yo 17h geling that has in the past month started rearing and is dangerously close to going over backwards. Only in the school, is so far OK out hacking (but I've lost all trust in him and am ready to jump off at the slightest hint of trouble!). Is increasinly getting grumpy to handle and if asked to do something he doesn't want (like move over when tied up) will threaten to go up. I don't know if this is boredom, excess fitness (food has been cut but he was fully fit when all this started and I am not working him anything like as much now) or a progression of whatever the problem is.

His saddle and back have been checked, vet check reveals nothing.

I can't afford to get hur, and get up at 5.30 to ride before work - it's not woth the time and effort when I dread doing it.

His current options are a change of career (huntsman is strangly very interested) or PTS. I hate to think I'm giving up on him, but digging into his past suggests that this has been a pattern - works fab for a few months then starts standing up, and has gone over numerous times.
 
Clare, have you had a check for ulcers? There have been some complete changes for the good, with horses that were found to have ulcers. There was one on another DG in a horse living out, so the vet just laughed at the owner and said it was a waste of money, but that was the diagnosis and the horse went from being dangerous to even bring in from the field, rearing, etc. and on the point of PTS, to a completely "normal" horse.
 
I read this thread with interest. I have to be honest, the older I get, the less tolerant I get, and I know that when my current horse either retires or worse, I will be on the look out for nothing less than a saint, and am fully prepared to pay the high price for it.

However, when I bought my horse, over 7 years ago we did find out he was a bolter. I bought him as a first horse from a riding school. He is well schooled and for the most part reasonably well mannered, but I think mentally he was totally shot away. Before the riding school had him, he had had a chequered history and I think the hard work of the riding school knocked a few edges off of him. However, when he became mine, we had all manner of issues to work through. The worst of them was the bolting.

He bolted with my instructor on a number of occasions, and a few times with me. It was always a whip around and a run for home, it was never away from home. I ended up not riding alone for a long while. Strangely a move to a new yard and lots and lots of love and fuss and some very hard work on the ground, plus some very good instruction, not just in the saddle, seemed to cure it, but I dont think its totally gone. He still will whip around fairly fast, even at nearly 19, if he is feeling insecure, but I have learned to read him and to anticipate him, and it remains just a quick whip around, not a whip around and bolt. Does this make him a dangerous horse? Apart from this trait, which I suspect is down to his own insecurity, he is a good boy to box, shoe, vet, hack alone and in company, clip, catch and is actually a very nice person. He has never reared and only bucks if its high spirits and he is feeling pretty good and with absolutely no malic, and he has never bitten or kicked me either. I could ride down the M5 on him and he wouldnt bat an eyelid.

I would add that he is my first horse, but does this make him dangerous?
 
kerilli said:
I dread to even think what had been done to that poor horse to make it turn into an aggressor like that, unless it was rabid. Poor poor animal. He has my sympathy far more than the man does... :( :( :(
As for anyone stupid enough to try to kick away a horse while they're on the ground... jeeez.
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If you read the comments, people who can understand the news report have said that the horse was bitten by a dog with rabies, so yes, was rabid. The man was just cycling past on his way home from work :(

Not nice for anyone involved

Trina x
 
I didnt think horses could get/carry rabies... hence why they can be flown all over the world without the need for quarentine?
 
Not sure on why no quarantine but they can definitely get and transmit rabies: http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/ho...et-topics-how-horses-can-transmit-rabies.aspx

"Although horses are not a common source of infection, infected horses can transmit the disease to humans if a person examines the mouth of the sick animal and gets saliva on his or her hands. If there is a break in the skin, the virus can gain entrance. Anyone who handles the sick horse is at risk.

Horses can become infected from bites by one of several wild animals. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the United States report that the most common sources of infection now are raccoons, skunks, bats, and foxes."
 
trina1982 said:
If you read the comments, people who can understand the news report have said that the horse was bitten by a dog with rabies, so yes, was rabid. The man was just cycling past on his way home from work :(

Not nice for anyone involved

Trina x
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Ah right, thanks. I tend not to read the comments on youtube vids as they make my blood pressure rise! ;) ;)
Glad my guess was correct. Poor poor horse and poor guy.
Afaik any mammal can carry rabies, no?

TheoryX, re: bolting - if it is a true bolt, I'd call that dangerous. If it's 'whipping round and legging it for home and going rather deaf to your instructions for a bit' that's one thing (and bad enough, don't get me wrong) but I've been tanked off with by various horses over the years (including one, very embarrassingly, at trot) and they were NOTHING like the one time I had one bolt - a bolter is ABSOLUTELY impervious to anything you do up there, totally oblivious, and would go through anything in its way... far more dangerous imho.
 
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Not sure how effective quarantine is for rabies anyway - according to good ol' wiki incubation is usually 2-12 weeks but can be upto 2 years! Lets just be thankful that rabies isn't a common worry in horses in the UK... although Scots beware as apparently there have been cases in bats in Scotland recently...
 
I would draw the line at temperament issues, no matter how well bred the horse.

A horse that bolts, rears, bucks etc from pain or as a result of previous pain/bad management is one thing.

A horse that does the same for no reason whatsoever apart from badness is a totally different kettle of fish - get a horse like that on one of it's bad days and it's capable of killing you.

I do have an example of what I call 'badness' - this is from a few years ago. Horse was purchased as a youngster by a very very experienced owner, horse was bought to do dressage or jumping, had the breeding and the ability for either, owner was waiting and giving the horse a chance to see if it showed a preference.

She worked with the horse on the ground, it was an angel. She started it very sympathetically - long reined, roller on, side reins (no bit at this point) all was going swimmingly - one day while long reining horse goes up and then throws itself backwards, when owner had let go of reins horse gets up shakes itself off and attacks owner - teeth and feet. Vet out to check, nothing showing up, poked and proded, bloods taken, nothing showing.

She sends horse away to be professionally broken - thinking it might be her who has upset the horse. All is going well for the first week, then horse flips, manages to get the professional on the floor then attacks them, teeth and feet.

She brings horse back, turns away for 6 months and then tries again - horse goes up and over first time she is on it, luckily she jumped clear but as soon as the horse was up it went for her. Vets out again, everything checked, scans done - all clear. Horse was then shot because owner would not risk selling it on no matter how well bred it was.

That to me is 'badness' as in temperament. Pretty much like people really, some just aren't wired up properly.
 
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