Danilon or Bute

Barton Bounty said:
he is not lame this morning which is good news
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Thought I would reiterate what I had already said YESTERDAY MORNING for any posters that hadn’t read it correctly.
HE IS STILL NOT LAME THIS MORNING

Any horse with flat feet used to having a shoe on would be sore on it.
WHY DO FOLK FEEL THE NEED TO CAUSE DRAMA WHENEVER THEY POST. Just dont bother .
 
Barton Bounty said:
Thought I would reiterate what I had already said YESTERDAY MORNING for any posters that hadn’t read it correctly.
HE IS STILL NOT LAME THIS MORNING
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You wrote this less than an hour ago.

He is hobbling like an old man and that is wrapped up with a scoot boot on too?
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Barton Bounty said:
Any horse with flat feet used to having a shoe on would be sore on it.
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And some horses with flat feet who have trodden on a stone badly enough to crack the sole where he has will also have cracked the more fragile thinner edge of the pedal bone.


You aren't the only person reading this thread. If you don't want the advice, ignore it. For anyone else, if you do have a horse which is lame enough to need bute a week after treading on a stone and cracking the sole, an x ray wouldn't go amiss.
 
Lexi 123 said:
It must be a uk thing because there is no way a vet would give you Bute for an abscess where I live. Especially over 20 which is crazy. Bute isn’t like a human pain killer it affects the liver kidney and gut. So people giving it to horse without a vet approval .The equine world is getting like this which is terrible because Bute is like morphine it’s very strong and shouldn’t be given out like smarties . If you release the pressure of the abscess it will cure the pain nobody I now give Bute for an abscess it doesn’t take long for a abscess to heal.
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Each to their own but I will never deliberately leave my horses in pain. If that is a UK thing then I'm quite happy that I live in a country with forward thinking vets who are not stuck in the dark ages.
No one is suggesting that bute be given like smarties btw. Only that it is given appropriately to relieve pain, which an abscess can cause a great deal of.
 
Lexi 123 said:
.The equine world is getting like this which is terrible because Bute is like morphine it’s very strong and shouldn’t be given out like smarties . If you release the pressure of the abscess it will cure the pain nobody I now give Bute for an abscess it doesn’t take long for a abscess to heal.
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Bute is not like morphine, its nothing like. When Lari did his DDFT and SDFT he was on 4 a day and he only weighed around 650kg.
A sachet of bute iss the equivalent of 2 ibrupofen according to my vet.

My vet has always given me a sachet of bute for when my horse has had an abscess. So it might slow down the rate an abscess drains (and there is no scientific proof it does which is why to give bute or not is so contraversial) but if you are more concerned with draining an abscess quickly because you want to ride rather than give bute so your beloved horse isn't in pain then I know which one I'd chose.
 
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Gallop_Away said:
Each to their own but I will never deliberately leave my horses in pain. If that is a UK thing then I'm quite happy that I live in a country with forward thinking vets who are not stuck in the dark ages.
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Rude. What leads you to think UK vets are not necessarily any more "forward thinking" than those in other countries.
 
Cortez said:
Rude. What leads you to think UK vets are not necessarily any more "forward thinking" than those in other countries.
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Any vet that would withhold pain relief and allow a horse to suffer extreme discomfort based on an idea which is now considered by most to be thoroughly outdated, is not a particularly forward thinking vet imo. You can think that's rude if you like 🤷‍♀️.
 
Cortez said:
The reason why bute is a prescription drug, and why vets don't (or shouldn't) hand it out like smarties, and why they like to check up on horses on long-term use, is that it can cause significant damage to other organs. It's not the aspirin of the horse world. Danilon is considerably less damaging to kidneys and gut.
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I will hold my hands up if I am wrong Cortez but I thought the difference between bute and danilon was that danilon was 'slightly' easier on the gut and also that it was certainly more palatable.
 
For those who use Danilon - is it possible to dissolve this in liquid and syringe it in? I do this with Bute because my small pony won't eat it mixed in anything. Nor will he eat food with Danilon in it. But if Danilon is kinder on the gut then I'd rather have that, if it can be syringed.
 
suestowford said:
For those who use Danilon - is it possible to dissolve this in liquid and syringe it in? I do this with Bute because my small pony won't eat it mixed in anything. Nor will he eat food with Danilon in it. But if Danilon is kinder on the gut then I'd rather have that, if it can be syringed.
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I wouldnt dissolve, however If I was having trouble and needed to syringe it, i would put it in the large syringe, and add enough water to squirt it in, might take a couple of syringes full to get it all in
 
suestowford said:
For those who use Danilon - is it possible to dissolve this in liquid and syringe it in? I do this with Bute because my small pony won't eat it mixed in anything. Nor will he eat food with Danilon in it. But if Danilon is kinder on the gut then I'd rather have that, if it can be syringed.
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It’s technically possible but is a much greater volume than bute, so in practice doesn’t work well.
 
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Birker2020 said:
I will hold my hands up if I am wrong Cortez but I thought the difference between bute and danilon was that danilon was 'slightly' easier on the gut and also that it was certainly more palatable.
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The people I was talking to (research folks) said "considerably", but that may depend on how you interpret the research, which I'm not party to.
 
Gallop_Away said:
Any vet that would withhold pain relief and allow a horse to suffer extreme discomfort based on an idea which is now considered by most to be thoroughly outdated, is not a particularly forward thinking vet imo. You can think that's rude if you like 🤷‍♀️.
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I do, and "most" of the vets I know will tell you that bute is not the jolly little go-to analgesic that a lot of owners think it is, to be thrown around like snuff at a wake.
 
eggs said:
A significant number of vet practices have been bought out by large companies although you often have to dig deep on their website to find out who actually owns them.

My small vets were bought out a few years ago and things have definitely changed with regards to business practices, etc and a lot of the original vets are not happy about it or have left. I declined the tiny bottle of Metacam at £42 they wanted to send one of my dogs home with as I have a large bottle already which cost me £18!

My horse vet is still independent but when I asked about price matching on Z's Prascend they said they couldn't do it as it costs them more to the buy the drug but they are happy to write me a 6 month prescription which costs me £30.
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Agreed - our small animal practice was bought out by XL vets and has changed out of all recognition in its attitude and fees.
 
Cortez said:
I do, and "most" of the vets I know will tell you that bute is not the jolly little go-to analgesic that a lot of owners think it is, to be thrown around like snuff at a wake.
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I'm not sure at what point I suggested that it was, only that it isn't ethical in my opinion to withhold pain relief when a horse is suffering, especially when the reasoning behind withholding that pain relief is now vastly considered outdated. Fortunately my own vet agrees with me.
 
Gallop_Away said:
I'm not sure at what point I suggested that it was, only that it isn't ethical in my opinion to withhold pain relief when a horse is suffering, especially when the reasoning behind withholding that pain relief is now vastly considered outdated. Fortunately my own vet agrees with me.
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I am on a large 45 horse yard with four vet practices covering. I have seen more than enough abscesses in my time and I have never known any vet not give them to a client. Nor have I ever heard of any of my friends vets not prescribing them either. I would have thought that the number on thing would be to prevent pain and lets face it, an abscess in the foot can be agonising.
 
Gallop_Away said:
I'm not sure at what point I suggested that it was, only that it isn't ethical in my opinion to withhold pain relief when a horse is suffering, especially when the reasoning behind withholding that pain relief is now vastly considered outdated. Fortunately my own vet agrees with me.
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So we've gone from "mostly" to "vastly" now? OK. I think the point is not about withholding something deliberately (I have seen bute prescribed for an abcess, BTW), but more about not giving it out willy-nilly, and understanding that there is a reason why it's prescription only, and why vets should see horses that are on it regularly.

The cost of it is another thing altogether.
 
Cortez said:
So we've gone from "mostly" to "vastly" now? OK. I think the point is not about withholding something deliberately (I have seen bute prescribed for an abcess, BTW), but more about not giving it out willy-nilly, and understanding that there is a reason why it's prescription only, and why vets should see horses that are on it regularly.

The cost of it is another thing altogether.
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OK.... do they not mean the same thing 🤔

Again I have not once implied bute should be given out willy nilly as you call it. Only that it should be given when needed.

If you would like to take offence or think my view that a vet withholding pain relief for such a painful and crippling issue as an abscess is outdated and cruel, then please feel free to do so. I am grateful that my own vet does not hold such views.

Now was there anything else or can I get on with my day?
 
Birker2020 said:
I will hold my hands up if I am wrong Cortez but I thought the difference between bute and danilon was that danilon was 'slightly' easier on the gut and also that it was certainly more palatable.
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Danilon is easier on the stomach but once inside the body it is turned into bute by the liver and has exactly the same toxic effects as feeding bute direct.
.
 
I've had horses on bute for years without issues so I'm afraid I'm pretty sceptical about the current climate of "we need to examine the horse annually" given it seems to come with a bill of £100 each time - for the exam not the bute. It's not like the arthritis is getting better.

And the cost per sachet is eye watering now.
 
I thought the requirements to see a horse every 6 months to prescribe was a legal thing, not something that comes from the vets themselves, they just have to comply.

Mine was pretty good though with my old horse who was on long term Bute. He would have a quick look and give me a prescription when he was on the yard for something else or when doing vaccinations with no exam fee.

Re owners having some Bute on standby, vets do assume you might have some to hand. I've had vets suggesting Bute with a colic case when not able to attend immediately and this was the on call vets not ones I knew.
 
SEL said:
I've had horses on bute for years without issues so I'm afraid I'm pretty sceptical about the current climate of "we need to examine the horse annually" given it seems to come with a bill of £100 each time - for the exam not the bute. It's not like the arthritis is getting better.

And the cost per sachet is eye watering now.
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Likewise. I had a "discussion" with reception saying what's the point in me letting a vet see the horse, to say he has slight arthritis which we already know and for me to pay for the privilege. Finally manged to speak to my vet direct who just agreed and left me out a box of 100 bute. However as previously mentioned he knows I will get the vet out when needed.
 
The two here are on long-term Bute, but as one has other issues that require close monitoring, he gets a visit a couple of times a year at least, so we have never fallen foul of the 'he needs to be seen' rule.
I have often wondered if that rule was brought in to stop people getting drugs for a horse they no longer have, to use on another horse that's not been examined, or to sell on.
 
suestowford said:
The two here are on long-term Bute, but as one has other issues that require close monitoring, he gets a visit a couple of times a year at least, so we have never fallen foul of the 'he needs to be seen' rule.
I have often wondered if that rule was brought in to stop people getting drugs for a horse they no longer have, to use on another horse that's not been examined, or to sell on.
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And while I completely agree with you!
He was prescribed the Danilon… but I refused to pay £55 for 20 sachets

A hoof is a farriers domain until the vet is required 😁
 
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