Dare I say it... Parelli?

[AdorableAlice]

I don't understand the difference between good NH (and that doesn't include Parelli, as it is not) and good traditional training methods.
Some of the most inspirational horsemen and women come from traditional backgrounds but produce excellent horses because they understand the horse's point of view and how they react.

Cash and marketing is the difference.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Cash and marketing is the difference.

Very much so.
I remember reading that the NH market evolved when more first time owners had the leisure time and money to get into horses. The problems they encountered were quite a shock for novices and the market in ready packaged programmes and instructors with a brand name opened up.

 

[Kelly Marks]

RIDMagic - yes see you there and come and have a chat - it's sometimes easier at the end of the evening if you don't have to get off early.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Very much so.
I remember reading that the NH market evolved when more first time owners had the leisure time and money to get into horses. The problems they encountered were quite a shock for novices and the market in a ready packaged programmes and instructors with a brand name opened up.

I have had the luxury of spending most of the summer watching TV (illness not idleness) and have watched Horse and Country in the middle of the night when they air the american trainers. Some of their methods leave a lot to be desired.

It is worrying the way DVD or 'packaged' methods, aimed at novice owners, are pushed as being the way to train a horse. I have been around horses for years and having spent the endless hours watching various trainers on the TV I have picked out a few things that have been useful with my tricky 2 year old.

No, it did not include bouncing balls, carrot sticks or standing on platforms ! more refined body language and posture techniques have helped me understand my nervous youngsters behaviour better. Kelly Marks explains body language brilliantly. I think it is a case of using bits and pieces of knowledge accordingly, but if you are new owner or novice how do you decipher the good, bad, indifferent and downright dangerous methods that are being pushed and recommended as the 'right' way to do things.

 

[Dreamer515]

can i start out by saying i am not against this method, just curious. Clicker training. i have used this with dogs before and was wondering is it the same concept? ie. "click" = food? (eventually they come to realise that "click" means good without the food) i know there are other steps to clicker training dogs after this. But with my horse i dont think he would even notice the clicker if there was food around! Obviously by reading previous posts, i realise clicker training horses does work but im very curious how you get your horse to pay attention to the clicker if there is food/treats involved?

 

[Kelly Marks]

Oh thank you AA! If you're experienced (ie AA) you can pick up brilliant tips from watching each and every horseperson. The problem is if you're a complete novice this approach can backfire as people may just take things too literally. What people learn is a really interesting subject.

 

[Hippona]

Indeed.

However, my experience of Parelli is middle aged women who have decided that parerelli is the only way to go to make their (perfectly sane and rideable horses) rideable. Yet never get on board because they remain **** scared.

They'd be better off with a cat.

Or a bike.

 

[pip6]

Kelly,

Just like to thank you for having my then 2 year old to one of your demo days, & Mr Roberts worked with her in the afternoon. She is now 5, backed & can look forward to her ridden career with no hang ups (she had the damaged leg after an accident, when Mr Roberts saw her she hadn't let anyone near the leg for about 8 months). I know there will always be those who claim they could have achieved the same result, but bottom line is he actually did it. Many thanks for the chance you gave us to move on from the day of the accident.

 

[HBM1]

I have a very good bond with all my horses, I have never had to resort to expensive "tools" or training aids (orange coloured veggie named poles) to do so either. In fact, I would refuse to line another person's parelli pocket in this respect. You just need to spend time with your horse, talk to them, encourage them, be fair, be fun - don't always ask something of them, just enjoy being around them and also see what you can do for them. Even when just wiping the sleep out of my horses eyes, I can see their appreciation. Anyone can bond with their horse without spending a fortune. I do admit to having played football with my first two foals, we had a hoot - cheap, garage bought ball too - one kicked it, the other ran off with it.

 

[_GG_]

Oh thank you AA! If you're experienced (ie AA) you can pick up brilliant tips from watching each and every horseperson. The problem is if you're a complete novice this approach can backfire as people may just take things too literally. What people learn is a really interesting subject.

Same reason I don't agree with the Cesar Milan programmes. It is fine for an experienced person to carry out certain techniques, but many novices just don't understand horses well enough yet to know when to back off. There is a set programme to follow and they will follow it and this allows no flexibility for the fact that all horses are different. It can be dangerous to forge ahead when things aren't right and an inexperienced person may not be able to recognise when things aren't right.

Personally I don't see the need for waving sticks and many of the tools and techniques, but my problem Is not with them. My problem is with people telling anyone and everyone that they can achieve something when not everyone actually can.

Who suffers? The horse ultimately and that is why I do not agree with the Parelli's. Money, fame and status should not come before horses.

 

[Shantara]

Oh thank you AA! If you're experienced (ie AA) you can pick up brilliant tips from watching each and every horseperson. The problem is if you're a complete novice this approach can backfire as people may just take things too literally. What people learn is a really interesting subject.

SO true!
I came to yours and Monty's demo last year and you helped someone with a horse they couldn't get on without a LOT of help. I had the same problem with my boy. He would let me on if someone held him, but I often rode by myself. I used most of the stuff you and Monty said to help me! I can now get him to stand by a mounting block with no reins or leadrope and I can just hop on! No more 2hr long battles and unbelievable stress for us
However, there are some thing that you both teach (while I respect it) it's just not applicable to Ned, so I don't use it.
There's also some "traditional" methods that work extremely well for him, so I use them.
Like you say, Kelly - you have to watch and learn from all sorts.

 

[ImmyS]

I'm a firm believer in 'the best technique, is no technique'

Every horse is such an individual, I believe it is difficult to find one such definite method to 100% suit and work for a horse. I fail to see how anyone could claim that there is a fixed way to do anything with horses. My horse is so different just from left to right that I have to completely change my body language and techniques depending what side of my horse I'm working with.

I look to various trainers e.g Ray Hunt, John Moore, Parelli, Monty Roberts and take ideas that I believe would suit the individual horse I am working with.

I have learnt to love such 'natural' or 'intelligent' horsemanship methods for various reasons. My exracer loves the groundwork we do, it has improved our relationship, her confidence and her balance tenfold. When I work with her on the ground, I expect 100% attention on me and that's what I ask for - does that make her zombie like and robotic? I don't think so - she still has spunk and attitude and I encourage that in a focused way. I don't see it any different to working dogs for instance - when you see a sheepdog at work they have total focus on their commander and what they are being asked, does that make them robotic? When my horses are with me they are working - when they are in the field they are not interfered with and are left to be horses as much as possible.

For the people who have met parelli trained horses that are dangerous - I would expect that those horses have been trained by someone who has tried to blindly make parelli techniques work, following a set programme because that's what it says to do - trying to mould the horse to the method rather than mould the method to the horse which I believe is the key.

Horses are individuals and so be treated accordingly.

 

[ImmyS]

I have had the luxury of spending most of the summer watching TV (illness not idleness) and have watched Horse and Country in the middle of the night when they air the american trainers. Some of their methods leave a lot to be desired.

It is worrying the way DVD or 'packaged' methods, aimed at novice owners, are pushed as being the way to train a horse. I have been around horses for years and having spent the endless hours watching various trainers on the TV I have picked out a few things that have been useful with my tricky 2 year old.

No, it did not include bouncing balls, carrot sticks or standing on platforms ! more refined body language and posture techniques have helped me understand my nervous youngsters behaviour better. Kelly Marks explains body language brilliantly. I think it is a case of using bits and pieces of knowledge accordingly, but if you are new owner or novice how do you decipher the good, bad, indifferent and downright dangerous methods that are being pushed and recommended as the 'right' way to do things.

Agree completely with the last paragraph - explained much better than the way I put it!

 

[Stephani]

As many other posts have said, you can achieve what you want without going through the 'Parelli machine' - there are lots of good trainers, english and western, who can teach you the basics of handling a horse and becoming a good leader, without a carrot stick in sight!
In the states, trainers like Monty Roberts/Parelli/etc etc are ten a penny, without the hype and fancy programmes that cost a fortune and are all about running a business and making a lot of money.

 

[CaitlinCal]

I'm not a fan of Parelli, but Monty Roberts has some great dressage with horsemanship videos you might find helpful.