Dealing with a horse that plants and won't go forward

[Michen]

So my lovely new mare really is lovely, but I did uncover a bit of history about her from the owner before her last one (which I really wish I had never found out quite frankly!) and saw some of the mentioned behaviour for the first time a bit today/yesterday.

The lady I bought her off had her six months and is a professional rider. It probably all sounds a little sinister but the girl she bought her off (who had her for 6 years from the age of one) had quite a few issues behaviourly which included rearing occasionally when she really didn't want to do something (usually spooking one end of the school or something similar and silly) and generally planting herself when she felt the need. I do not believe she has displayed this behaviour in last home, but like I say, they were professionals. I have been told she was fine with them so wouldn't surprise me if she was testing them. I completely trust the people I bought her from. I am no professional rider, but I like this mare and am determined to learn to ride her. To be fair to her she hasn't been an ounce out of line in the last two weeks until yesterday.

I took her for an hours hack and then asked her to walk down to the school. She planted. When I asked her to move forward she hopped slightly in the air. Now knowing what I know, I bottled it a bit and didn't want to push the issue an escalate it. To be fair, I wish I'd never asked her to go down to the school as it was poor judgment on my part given it was hot, she was bothered with flies and she had been foot perfect on our first proper hack alone- should have left it at that. So I got off, she still planted. Literally would not move forward where I wanted her to go- only back to her stable. Got a lunge line and every time she stepped back I put her on a small circle in trot. Didn't work. Eventually managed to get her to move by moving her from side to side, walked down to the school- hopped on for a few minutes and went back. All fine.

Today on a fun ride, first outing she was surprisingly excellent. She exceeded all expectations, not getting fizzy in the slightest even when 15 horses galloped straight past her with kids screaming and shouting on board. Rather impressive for a spooky/sharp mare and I was really chuffed with how genuine she was about it all.

However she did stop and plant a few times, once at something she was spooking at (we got a lead from our friend and her horse) and another time when I asked her to leave the horse she was with whilst they took the route for the line of jumps. This mare quite literally goes dead to the leg and whip when this happens. I didn't push it on this occasion but just followed our friend instead. However I'm obviously aware that this behaviour needs dealing with. My intention for the end of today was just to survive and have a nice time to be honest!

Her owner before last says there is zero point smacking her, kicking her etc she is completely dead to it and it will cause her to go up.

So what to do with this behaviour if I can't send her forward, bearing in mind I am reluctant to risk her going up because quite frankly it'll scare the living day lights out of me.

I'm making her sound like a horror- she's really not- I could not have been more pleased with how she reacted to all the tests in the book today with horses galloping off in front/along side etc and she kept herself together at all times. I am really chuffed with her in general. If I hadn't know that she has gone up in the past Id probably be feeling a lot more confident about the situation- but hey ho I know what I know!

Any thoughts? We have a lesson on weds so will obviously be discussing with my instructor but I'm sure some of you have dealt with similar before and may have some good ideas.

 

[PorkChop]

My first thought is to ask the professional who owned her before you how she/he dealt with it.

It is a horrible feeling when they are completely dead to the leg/whip aid, but I think you dealt with it in a sensible way.

There is no such thing as a perfect horse and I suspect you might by worrying about what she might do, this is the hard bit, the unknown if you like.

I would set her up to succeed until you get to know her better, don't put her in a situation that might push the boundaries just yet.

She sounds lovely btw

 

[Michen]

Sorry where i said testing them- i meant testing me!

 

[Michen]

Thanks LJR, edited the above post to say they did not experience this behaviour. It wouldn't surprise me if she is pushing because she senses I am weaker than the people who have been riding her the last six months.

She is lovely, I am very pleased with her after today. I literally froze in fear when those horses were coming past, even my friends schoolmaster was going a bit nuts but she just stood and watched. What a babe!

My first thought is to ask the professional who owned her before you how she/he dealt with it.

It is a horrible feeling when they are completely dead to the leg/whip aid, but I think you dealt with it in a sensible way.

There is no such thing as a perfect horse and I suspect you might by worrying about what she might do, this is the hard bit, the unknown if you like.

I would set her up to succeed until you get to know her better, don't put her in a situation that might push the boundaries just yet.

She sounds lovely btw

 

[milliepops]

I have had one similar, and it's now no longer a problem. It was very very tedious, and the horse sounds pretty similar, in that no amount of 'bullying' (in the nicest way) would get the horse to budge. It wasn't ever going to work, and it would cause the same effect, i.e. go up. I'm pretty used to horses that just need showing the right way, ones where if you have a quick enough reaction you can either nip a nap in the bud or avoid it in the first place, but this time it was totally different. If the horse's adrenalin went up for any reason, that was it, and nothing would get through.

I actually ended up getting some help from someone else because I was at my wits end. The person I got out was completely different to what I'm used to, almost OTT in her level of patience. She would take the horse out for me because I didn't have time to do it properly. Her approach was to not let the adrenalin get up in the first place, and then to wait it out. I was getting too emotional and panicking that I'd never sort the problem out.
She used the phrase 'look for an open door' because the horse would shut down, once planted, so you had to search for the direction that would get us moving again. That might not be the place I had originally intended, but we just had to get un-stuck.

I will PM you in a bit if it will help, but there is a way through that kind of thing, and there are some horses that you can't get through to by 'insisting' that they go forward. I feel that the horse I had is cured now, but it required a lot of patience and keeping the faith

 

[Tern]

The important thing with a planting horse is to make sure its feet keep moving in any direction except backwards. if this means bending her head one side and making her move sideways until she gives up then so be it. If she won't go sideways then i'd get a professional to school her out of this.

 

[Michen]

Thanks milliepops that would be fab. I really do like this mare, there's something genuine about her despite this behaviour. She is completely NOT what I should have bought given my confidence is rock bottom at the moment (no particularly reason for it- bit bizarre) but I think she will be fab for me if I learn to ride her properly. Had two instructors out and both have really, really liked her so hopefully I'll manage to work out the kinks!

I have had one similar, and it's now no longer a problem. It was very very tedious, and the horse sounds pretty similar, in that no amount of 'bullying' (in the nicest way) would get the horse to budge. It wasn't ever going to work, and it would cause the same effect, i.e. go up. I'm pretty used to horses that just need showing the right way, ones where if you have a quick enough reaction you can either nip a nap in the bud or avoid it in the first place, but this time it was totally different. If the horse's adrenalin went up for any reason, that was it, and nothing would get through.

I actually ended up getting some help from someone else because I was at my wits end. The person I got out was completely different to what I'm used to, almost OTT in her level of patience. She would take the horse out for me because I didn't have time to do it properly. Her approach was to not let the adrenalin get up in the first place, and then to wait it out. I was getting too emotional and panicking that I'd never sort the problem out.
She used the phrase 'look for an open door' because the horse would shut down, once planted, so you had to search for the direction that would get us moving again. That might not be the place I had originally intended, but we just had to get un-stuck.

I will PM you in a bit if it will help, but there is a way through that kind of thing, and there are some horses that you can't get through to by 'insisting' that they go forward. I feel that the horse I had is cured now, but it required a lot of patience and keeping the faith

 

[Michen]

The important thing with a planting horse is to make sure its feet keep moving in any direction except backwards. if this means bending her head one side and making her move sideways until she gives up then so be it. If she won't go sideways then i'd get a professional to school her out of this.

We can do sideways- sort of! Trouble is she has only done it once at home and then on this fun ride (and to be fair I didn't try very hard to work her through it on the fun ride- I just didn't want the arguement and wanted to have an enjoyable relaxed time for us both. Hard to have a professional put her in those sorts of situations, though if she starts doing it frequently at home obviously that will be a good route to take. I'm hoping it won't come to that- but I do know this behaviour has been apparent in a past life so I'm keen to nip it in the bud with me or learn to work through it.

 

[Tern]

We can do sideways- sort of! Trouble is she has only done it once at home and then on this fun ride (and to be fair I didn't try very hard to work her through it on the fun ride- I just didn't want the arguement and wanted to have an enjoyable relaxed time for us both. Hard to have a professional put her in those sorts of situations, though if she starts doing it frequently at home obviously that will be a good route to take. I'm hoping it won't come to that- but I do know this behaviour has been apparent in a past life so I'm keen to nip it in the bud with me or learn to work through it.

If you can turn a small circle then do so.

I remember a friend asking for advice about a bolshy horse and a number of people said turn the horse in 10 small tight circles and then carry on. If it does "x" again turn it in 10 small tight circles the other way. I have heard it working for impatient fidgety horses too.

Maybe this would give her the time to relax again and it wouldn't let her rear because the likelyhood is that her head will be touching your leg.

 

[Michen]

Thanks for this will give that a go next time. She's a very spooky mare to hack to working very hard to make sure she never gets behind my leg and doing lots of lateral work on the (quiet) roads to keep her brain occupied which helps greatly. Frustrating that as soon as she really doesn't want to do something all the leg in the world won't shift her!

If you can turn a small circle then do so.

I remember a friend asking for advice about a bolshy horse and a number of people said turn the horse in 10 small tight circles and then carry on. If it does "x" again turn it in 10 small tight circles the other way. I have heard it working for impatient fidgety horses too.

Maybe this would give her the time to relax again and it wouldn't let her rear because the likelyhood is that her head will be touching your leg.

 

[Tobiano]

Hi well done with the pleasure ride, that sounds great despite the little issues. Some good advice here - not something I have ever succeeded in dealing with - but just to say if you are also struggling a bit with confidence, take all steps you can to keep yourself as safe as possible so that you can have that bit more confidence which will transmit to your mare. I'd suggest a body protector, and an RS-Tor (emergency handle that you hold a the front of the saddle), mark your tack and your own clothing with an emergency number to ring if anyone finds you or the horse without the other (we do this on our local pleasure rides) and take a mobile phone. then you will be ready for anything!!

 

[Kezzabell2]

My horse was doing this last yr. He was rock solid. U couldn't even turn hus head. I sat on him for 20 mins waiting and nothing worked

I got a new instructor,natural horsemanship style guy. he told me to ask once with my leg if no reaction within one second to use my whip, he reared, so I was to hold on to the neck strap and keep using the whip until he went forward. I sat out a few rears, Bucks and kicks. But within 20 mins I was trotting around without constantly kicking the hell out of him

Yes they will fight to begin with, but it's because they know no better

In your ponies eyes she has reacted in that way in the past and has been allowed to get away with it, so in her eyes she is doing the right think

To her she is being rewarded when you stop using the whip

If you don't have the courage to ride her through it, there are plenty of pros that will help, I've had 2 people who were happy to ride.

But also, make sure it's not a reaction to pain

Good luck

 

[tallyho!]

I constantly battle this! Some days good. some days bad.

I've taken on a members motto and I "don't LET her do that"!!! It's working the best for me so far.... thanks Pearlasinger! (I think!)

 

[Liane]

I used to ride a horse that did this, although he wouldn't tend to go up but would reverse at speed if you kicked/smacked him, and would run into things. I took him out one day knowing I was going past something that would make him plant and refuse to go forwards, when he stopped I squeezed with my legs, not enough to make him go backwards but enough to be annoying/slightly uncomfortable for him and then I sat there, he wasn't allowed to go anywhere but forwards and I was prepared to wait all day. The minute his weight felt like he was going to go forwards (even if he didn't move his leg) I took my legs off, patted and praised him, then started again, it did take a while, probably an hour or so, but everything was very calm and he learnt. After this whenever he stopped I would give him a constant squeeze with my legs and he would carry on forward.

 

[junglefairy]

I can empathise, I recently bought a mare that displays similar behaviour - planting and rearing if pushed. As with yours, my mare doesn't respond to leg or whip (except with a rear). In this horse's case she's very green and I think it's lack of confidence/napping.

The turning is a good suggestion if they'll do it, mine won't, she really does plant and won't move (except up). If I had all day then maybe I'd just wait it out, but I don't have all day. So instead I do 2 things:

1. Push her forward from the start, e.g. Forward going trot for first few minutes and then be very wary of her backing off the leg and if she does then immediately push her forward;

2. When she still plants despite the efforts at 1 then I give her c.20 secs and if no movement then jump off and lead. Sometimes this requires some turning etc. to get her moving forward, but I think having someone on the ground seems to give her a bit of confidence. I'll get her really going forward then jump back on and continue the ride as normal.

Some people may say you shouldn't get off but my thinking is that I don't want her getting into a habit of stopping and thinking that way, so if I jump off and get her going forward again quickly then I'm encouraging forward thinking.

Anyway this seems to be working and she has improved massively, but I think with a new horse there's also just the element of them learning to trust and respect you which may take a bit longer with an opinionated mare!

 

[Michen]

Frustrating, how are you dealing with it?

I can empathise, I recently bought a mare that displays similar behaviour - planting and rearing if pushed. As with yours, my mare doesn't respond to leg or whip (except with a rear).

 

[junglefairy]

Just to add once she's going forward I give lots of praise.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Set her up to do it and have her on long lines (or get someone really good at long lining to do this for you). She needs sent forward really strongly and you must win.

I don't agree any movement is fine, it's not. It has to be the way you said originally.

The chances are she did try it with the pro and the pro nipped it in the bud so fast she doesn't even remember it.

There is a technique to riding a napper and don't tell yourself it's a settling in thing it's not and it needs crushed immediately!

 

[Michen]

Just not sure how to do this when whipping and leg doesn't work, without getting a rear? Edited to say I dont thinks it is settling in at all- one of the ones on the fun ride was fear. One was I don't want to leave my friend and one was I do NOT want to school when I've just been for a hack.

Set her up to do it and have her on long lines (or get someone really good at long lining to do this for you). She needs sent forward really strongly and you must win.

I don't agree any movement is fine, it's not. It has to be the way you said originally.

The chances are she did try it with the pro and the pro nipped it in the bud so fast she doesn't even remember it.

There is a technique to riding a napper and don't tell yourself it's a settling in thing it's not and it needs crushed immediately!

 

[FfionWinnie]

That's why you start the process with her on the long reins. She can rear and leap about as much as she likes but she will have to go forward.

Winning a big battle on long reins means she won't put up such a big one under saddle.

Because you're behind her you can send her forward whatever she tries.

With my new horse (who I bought from a dealer yard and when I viewed her she stood up and nearly went over then proceeded to buck and nap the entire time she was ridden!) I set up a safe area with scary stuff I knew she wouldn't want to pass. Ie set her up to do it, when she did, I won, it wasn't easy (hat and gloves a must and plenty of time). I did that a few times before I ever sat on her.

She has never ever gone up with me. All she does now is stop occasionally, she gets a boot and she goes. She's only about 6 weeks in to her retraining, ultimately she will not nap at all, that's how confident I am about sorting her.

A whip whop rope is also good for forcing them forward under saddle. Don't start something you aren't prepared to win tho, if you've any doubts get a pro in.

 

[laura_nash]

My cob planted like this in the school and when hacking alone when I first got him, in his case it was definitely a case of "I don't want to" not nerves. Kicking or whipping, any violence even mild like a wip whop, made him more determined not to move. He never went up with me, but did when my (former) instructress tried to push him through it. The solution in his case was noise, if I made a loud noise (e.g. swishing a whip or rattling something) he would shoot forwards and that would get him moving again.

edited because wip whop was ***'d out(!)

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Not ideal and probably better suggestions on here and also depends on her size/ your ability to get on from the floor but when I got H he wouldn't hack alone as he had been in a riding school so was used to mooching along in the middle of a ride. I just would go a little bit further each time and if he did plant and to be fair to him it only happened a couple of times, I'd get off and lead him for about 100 m just to get him moving along again a d he was Ok again. Again don't Reccomend it if she's not good to lead or stays planted. Now he's still spooky alone and will stop if he sees something spooky but will go if I push him on. If he's taking the p a bit eg stopping at something he's seen multiple times before or goes to spin he does receive a smack on the bottom so he doesn't start taking advantage. I'd also do quite a bit of trotting when I first started going alone as he had a bit more momentum so I had more time to "catch" him before he fully stopped eg when he fell into walk he got asked to trot or walk briskly.

 

[Michen]

Thats a great idea! Actually mighty a go at a plastic bag wrapped round a whip or something and see if that sends her forward, if and when she does it again.

My cob planted like this in the school and when hacking alone when I first got him, in his case it was definitely a case of "I don't want to" not nerves. Kicking or whipping, any violence even mild like a wip whop, made him more determined not to move. He never went up with me, but did when my (former) instructress tried to push him through it. The solution in his case was noise, if I made a loud noise (e.g. swishing a whip or rattling something) he would shoot forwards and that would get him moving again.

edited because wip whop was ***'d out(!)

 

[MotherOfChickens]

agreed, long reining is a good way of sorting out ridden issues-especially napping/planting if you're able to -if she does it under saddle, she'll do it on the long reins.

 

[Getoutmypockets]

Haha this sounds like my mare, months we tried in the school and on solo hacks to get through this! She's now fine in school but if she hasn't been out on her own for a while will just stop sometimes. Usually leaving the yard, and a few scary spots on the way. However it's much easier to get moving these days!

Patience is key, as is being prepared! Yes, a rear might happen when you challenge her but hey, it's soon forgotten when going forward! Mine had an 'off' button I swear, I'd exhaust myself with my stick, legs, plastic bag tied in a knot with socks in (make shift whip whop style!) and I'd end up sat there and all of a sudden I got 'I'm bored mum, I'm walking now'

It's frustrating but repetition and patience paid off, along with an instructor on the ground and I find the patient approach pays off quicker now. We still have the odd day but she will go on quickly now!

I'd suggest long reining too, they do get over this annoying habit eventually but it has to be persevered at and maintained!

Congrats though it sounds like you have achieved lots of fun things together already

 

[Barnacle]

Have had to deal with a few like this...

One was (and is) very sensitive in the school and you barely think forward and he's off cantering... But when he'd plant while hacking, that was it for forward. No amount of leg or whip would budge him and he would start backing up, threatening to rear and frequently attempting to buck. I got him through that by turning him in a complete circle once, then asking again. Over and over until he went the way I asked. Took hours the first few times. But he gradually gave in and now he's one of the braver horses. Starting him off positive and forward helped.

I see some people have mentioned something to this effect and a couple have said they tried this and failed. I had someone else try this on said horse and they couldn't get him to turn at all (he'd turn his head only and bite their foot!) so keep in mind this is probably more to do with how you're asking (you need to use your seat and legs, not just your reins!).

As for long-reining, great if you have space. Absolutely do not do this if your horse is likely to start napping in a narrow space. She may backup, spin and quite literally could kill you. Even worse if she decides to rear as she backs and topples over. This kind of thing is much more safely tackled from on the horse or in front of it.

 

[Abby-Lou]

I had success with a small plastic bottle with a few stones in as soon as plants small rattle to push on. Just be careful when you introduce it ie try in a school first to gauge reaction.

 

[Gloi]

Another vote for work in long reins. You can then send her forward without being worried about her reactions. In my experience once the issue is sorted from the floor it will be better under saddle. I disagree totally with Barnacle about you being safer on top of a rearer, just be sure you are far enough away to keep out of trouble, though why you would be in a narrow space training a problem horse I don't know.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Another vote for work in long reins. You can then send her forward without being worried about her reactions. In my experience once the issue is sorted from the floor it will be better under saddle. I disagree totally with Barnacle about you being safer on top of a rearer, just be sure you are far enough away to keep out of trouble, though why you would be in a narrow space training a problem horse I don't know.

quite-you also never stand directly behind a greenie when you are long reining-stand to the inside so you are better placed to get them onto a circle if needs be.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

If you can turn a small circle then do so.

I remember a friend asking for advice about a bolshy horse and a number of people said turn the horse in 10 small tight circles and then carry on. If it does "x" again turn it in 10 small tight circles the other way. I have heard it working for impatient fidgety horses too.

Maybe this would give her the time to relax again and it wouldn't let her rear because the likelyhood is that her head will be touching your leg.

I have known that work with a nappy horse but your circles have to be really tight, the horse's nose needs to be practically touching your boot. In fact the mare I had did bite the rider's boot occasionally - just cheeky!

The horse needs to get its confidence from you, which isn't easy when you don't feel super-confident but you have to make the horse believe that you are.

As someone else said -set the horse up to succeed, at least until you know each other better.