Dear HHO, the importation of EIA

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QR: I would just like to clarify the following.

The anti Franch rescue people were not against the import of Franch rescue horses for the sake of it.

One of the many reasons for opposition to this trade, is because there is a loophole in the law, these horses are able to be imported without stringent veterinary checks, which means that crippled, diseased, and infectious horses can get into this country. The very real threat of EIA entering the UK was always high on the agenda.
Those on HHO who think iNAGS is simply about the Franch rescue cause, are invited to read the info and blogs, rather than just passing this off as yet another anti Franch argument.

I am saddened by those who are belittling this problem.

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Not many mosquitos round here at the moment, so I'll put off panicking for a while...

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That has to be one of the most ignorant comments I have read on here.
I hope to god that the owners of the two dead horses don't come on HHO...

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But the horses did not come from France???? I really fail to see the relevance.

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Booboos, Rumanian horses destined for the meat market do not have to have a current coggins test, they travel through France on the way to Italy, some of them end up in bin end dealers in France and it is a fact that at least one or two of them have been bought up by UK 'rescuers' and imported into this country under the Tripartate Agreement, ie with NO HEALTH CHECK WHATSOEVER now can you see the relevance?

Oh and one of the horses concerned was from Belgium, smack bang next to France, now unless they have passport control for biting insects (NOT just mosquitos) I fail to see how they can stop the disease transferring that way either.

Incidentally, be worried, one of my horses actually got bitten by a midge yesterday.
 
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I'm slightly confused...

I do not support the 'rescue' of meat horses, it's stupid for many reasons, but what does this have to do with this case?

France doesn't have EIA, these horses came from Romania via Belgium according to the article and the tripartite agreement covers UK, Ireland and France. What have I missed???

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Are you sure France doesn't have EIA? I thought they did, but I could be wrong.
 
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And the fact that a large number of INAG members blocked me on facebook following my support of that ban is... completely irrelevant?

But, back to Mairi's post. Seems that DEFRA are acting within their limits, but I can't read their recommended plan of action as it's a PDF file.

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Personal issues are completely irrelevant to this discussion, yes.

From what I can see (and perhaps I've missed something, at least I hope I have) they are subjecting other horses on the yard (which is still trading, by the way) to testing "in the coming weeks".
 
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Well, how about we all stop bitching and moaning about each other, and force DEFRA to BAN all horse imports.

Presumably EIA is a notifiable disease?

Well, screw the racing industry - full horse movement bans should be in place.

If HHO members went to their yards, stopped all horse movements, told their friends, their families - we could FORCE a ban on movements! If we all write to defra now, we could FORCE the official ban.
with H&H, HORSE and other IPC magazines behind us, we'd have to act.

But, alas, HHO will decend into a bitchfest and the thread will be deleted. Shame, that.

But - my tuppence - INAG need to have a serious think about their plan of attack if their members keep being banned from HHO. I suspect it's not so much the attitude towards french rescues as the attitude to her fellow human beings that was the problem!

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TBH DEFRA will never 'screw the racing industry' there is just far too much money involved sadly, I do understand your thinking though, INAG have actually been trying to get the Tripartate Agreement amended so that it only applied to Racing, Breeding and Competition horses. This would go a long way safeguard the UK herd as it would mean that any other equine would HAVE to have a full health check BEFORE import into the UK, the two horses concerned would never even have reached our shores if this had been in place.

I do feel I have to correct you on your INAG comment, our members most certainly do not keep getting banned.
 
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I'm slightly confused...

I do not support the 'rescue' of meat horses, it's stupid for many reasons, but what does this have to do with this case?

France doesn't have EIA, these horses came from Romania via Belgium according to the article and the tripartite agreement covers UK, Ireland and France. What have I missed???

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Are you sure France doesn't have EIA? I thought they did, but I could be wrong.

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They have had fairly recent outbreaks of EIA, but it's not endemic in France.
 
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And the fact that a large number of INAG members blocked me on facebook following my support of that ban is... completely irrelevant?

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Yep totally irrelevant. LOL have just remembered who you are (or rather were on HHO) and I think you'll find that whoever it was that blocked you did so in support of a friend and was absolutely NOTHING to do with INAGs.


Please don't turn this into the 'Bundle' show, EIA is too important to get lost in your past/present hang-ups.
 
It is not entirely irrelevant. I question INAG's motives, and I'm not alone.

If INAG wants to be taken seriously as a pressure group, they really ought to put some of their more outspoken members on leeshes. It's not good for publicity.

Sirenia - I don't see why restrictions can be placed on livestock at the drop of a hat, but horses you have to fight for it. Whilst racing is a million dollar industry - what use is allowing meets when the horses lives could be in danger. It's always injuriated me.
Screw farmers, they just feed us, but don't dare offend the racing industry.

Does anyone know the movements of the horses once they hit UK soil? Did they go through markets etc?
 
Bundle, I agree but it is a sad fact that if we tried to levy to actually stop the TPA altogether, we would be banging our heads against a wall. What we DO need to do is close the loophole that allows these bin end dealers and rescuers to bring in diseased knackered horses, they are the real danger.

The horses in question ended up at a dealers yard, God only knows where they are now.

Yup there is unfairness going on here re farmers etc, but money talks and holds power, the racing industry is a multi million dollar one and one that our government would not want to upset, so, we have to be realistic.
 
As someone has already said horses have moved legitimatly back & to across the channel for competition & racing purposes for many years without any real problems.
EIA is present in France, but not endemic. The horses who have tested positive are nothing to do with Franch Recures - although they are a good example of why the UK should be far more careful about letting livestock come in to the UK from mainland europe. Again though as already said earlier in the thread insects & bats do make their way over the channel seemingly far more frequently than they used to - & the most likely cause for that is good old fashioned hitch hiking via vehicles using tunnels & ferries rather than it necessarily being livestock carriers.
My own stance is that given how the disease is transmitted (via blood sucking insects & not horse to horse contact), & that there is no vacine I'm not going to get worked up over it. As far as I can tell there is NOTHING I can do via husbandry or medication to reduce the risk of any of my horses becoming victim - although I dearly wish there was.
Don't forget the gnat that carries Blue Tongue also carries African Horse Sickness & that thankfully didn't materialise when the outbreak of Blue Tongue was present inspite of warnings from certain quarters that every equine in the UK was doomed !!
 
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Don't forget the gnat that carries Blue Tongue also carries African Horse Sickness & that thankfully didn't materialise when the outbreak of Blue Tongue was present inspite of warnings from certain quarters that every equine in the UK was doomed !!

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Yet!
 
Bundle, what on earth has your obvious dislike for JM07 got to do with this Thread?

Apparently JM07 speaks highly of you too.
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re "What you on about?? INAG members don't 'keep' getting banned from HHO. "


We certrainly don't there are lots of us here!

I too am aware of a few cases of eia in france last year, however the issue is not particularly horses coming from france but horses coming from eia infected countries via france so they can avoid having red tape that would be required if they came from their countrys or origin.

As said earlier inag aim is to work to drum support to lobby to prevent such loopholes, and to improve the general travelling conditions of such horses being imported. All horses where improvement is required not just rescue horses!
 
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And the fact that a large number of INAG members blocked me on facebook following my support of that ban is... completely irrelevant?


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Bundle, this thread isn't about you or anything that may or may not have gone on between you and other forum members in the past.

I think there needs to be some sort of coordinated effort by everyone involved in horse welfare. Could people may be start with writing to their MP, or to DEFRA, to insist the borders are closed for the time being? As someone else pointed out, when we had FMD, Europe closed their borders to us straight away... We need to stop being so fluffy and woolly and follow their example.
 
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It is not entirely irrelevant. I question INAG's motives, and I'm not alone.

If INAG wants to be taken seriously as a pressure group, they really ought to put some of their more outspoken members on leeshes. It's not good for publicity.



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I question your motives, and I'm not alone.
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Bundle, this is no time for individual grudges, and if this turns into a bitchfest, it will do so because people like you, and others, who are taking it off track, and making it about personalities and past grievances, rather than the real issue.

At least those people who you claim need leashes, are actually getting off their ar$es and fighting to make changes, instead of sitting back and sniping.
We should all be putting any differences to one side, and be pulling together on this.
This is not about ego's - it's about the horses.
 
Will DEFRA listen? Mmmm, I shall plead the fifth amendment methinks!
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As we all know, achieving change is always a slow and laborious process, and we have to address the cause of the problem (namely the tripartite agreement) rather than the syptoms.

The tripartite agreement was orginally intended to aid the travel of horses across Europe for competition/breeding purposes, and in theory was a good idea.
However, glaring loopholes mean that all horses also have the right to this legislation, and are being travelled when they really shouldn't be.
All horse lovers need to be lobbying their MP's and anybody who will listen. If enough people shout long and hard enough, they are going to have to take notice.

I have finally managed to send you an invite to the iNAG's FB group btw!
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FB was playing up for me last night.
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It is not entirely irrelevant. I question INAG's motives, and I'm not alone.

If INAG wants to be taken seriously as a pressure group, they really ought to put some of their more outspoken members on leeshes. It's not good for publicity.



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I question your motives, and I'm not alone.
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At least those people who you claim need leashes, are actually getting off their ar$es and fighting to make changes, instead of sitting back and sniping.
We should all be putting any differences to one side, and be pulling together on this.
This is not about ego's - it's about the horses.

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Thank you Dubs!

As a member of INAG I take issue with somebody with a past grievance with a (former?) member here tarring all our members with the same brush and in that process attempting to put everything that we are bl**dy hard for in such a poor light.

As Dubs says Bundle - love us or loath us, but we ARE all working together for the good of YOUR horse!
 
WHW statement

World Horse Welfare comment: Equine Infectious Anaemia

19/01/2010
Equine Infectious Anaemia, a notifiable disease, has been detected in two horses in Wiltshire. World Horse Welfare has today (19th January) issued the following statement:

"It is incredibly encouraging that post import checks appear to have worked in this instance. However this incident raises serious questions. We are gravely concerned that these horses were ever able to leave Romania and to travel across Europe so easily. There is a legal requirement for health certification before export from Romania, which includes blood testing for EIA.

"Romania, where EIA is endemic, is one of the largest exporters of horses for slaughter in Europe. World Horse Welfare has raised concerns with the authorities in the UK, Brussels, Romania and other Member States many times over the last 6 to 7 years. If this disease spreads across the UK it could have catastrophic effects on our horse population. Disease does not discriminate, whether it's a child's pony or Cheltenham Gold Cup winner.

"We were lucky with this case but we must heed the very real warning it signifies. Action must be taken to safe guard horses in Britain and the rest of Europe from this very real threat."



Background

- World Horse Welfare has worked in Romania since 2004 and has expertise about the key horse welfare issues within the country

- World Horse Welfare is campaigning to end long distance transport of horses to slaughter in Europe (Romania is the second largest exporter of horses for slaughter in Europe)

- Disease was one of the key issues highlighted to the European Commission when World Horse Welfare Dossier of Evidence on transport to slaughter was presented in 2008 (specifically EIA and Romania).






So, I wonder if the horses from Rumania were actually intended for slaughter in Italy and this would be why the health checks did not take place?

Was it a dealers yard these animals were at - do we know?
 
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As someone has already said horses have moved legitimatly back & to across the channel for competition & racing purposes for many years without any real problems.
EIA is present in France, but not endemic. The horses who have tested positive are nothing to do with Franch Recures - although they are a good example of why the UK should be far more careful about letting livestock come in to the UK from mainland europe. Again though as already said earlier in the thread insects & bats do make their way over the channel seemingly far more frequently than they used to - & the most likely cause for that is good old fashioned hitch hiking via vehicles using tunnels & ferries rather than it necessarily being livestock carriers.
My own stance is that given how the disease is transmitted (via blood sucking insects & not horse to horse contact), & that there is no vacine I'm not going to get worked up over it. As far as I can tell there is NOTHING I can do via husbandry or medication to reduce the risk of any of my horses becoming victim - although I dearly wish there was.
Don't forget the gnat that carries Blue Tongue also carries African Horse Sickness & that thankfully didn't materialise when the outbreak of Blue Tongue was present inspite of warnings from certain quarters that every equine in the UK was doomed !!

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I wholeheartedly agree.

We are VERY lucky that this has been picked up now, in the winter. Let me also remind everyone that maybe, just maybe the Romanian horse DID have the Coggins test and was clear - the horse may have been bitten on route to the UK. Coggins tests are all well and good, but post import checks MUST become a law, and imported horses really should stay in quarantine until they are given a clean bill of health.

The horses that infected my yard in Spain with AHS with catastrophic results were infected in Madrid, because of zebras being held in the same holding area. One mosquito bites one equine, then one more and then that horse is transported and then BANG, you have 100 dead horses on one yard
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But we also had circa 50 horses who lived through it. The mossies bite one but not the next, they are indescriminate.

So, do I have a solution? Nope, not a foolproof one because that it impossible, but the UK should absolutely insist on clean pre and post testing on all horses before they are allowed out of a quarantine area. The added expense to owners would also stop ridiculous and pointless movement of various horses to and from the continent.
 
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So, do I have a solution? Nope, not a foolproof one because that it impossible, but the UK should absolutely insist on clean pre and post testing on all horses before they are allowed out of a quarantine area. The added expense to owners would also stop ridiculous and pointless movement of various horses to and from the continent.

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Could not agree more
 
As far as I'm aware rountine testing post import is not the norm or it wasn't when mine came from Turkey, which is outside the EU. I had a visit from a DEFRA representative to check all my paperwork and pre import test certificates. We chose to isolate for 3 weeks post import and had 3 months pre import at an isolaton yard.

All vets, yards, and labs have to be approved for use.
 
Forgive me for being thick, but do we only compete our British horses in regions/countries where EIA (and other such awful nasties with no vaccination available by way of prevention) are non-existant? And if the infection chain is so haphazard and evolving, why are we going there at all?


I hope any certificate-signing vet's adhere very stringently to accuracy regarding results, dates and ID's. Makes a 'back-dated-by-a-week' 'flu' certificate look like small potatoes.

I am gravely disturbed by the news possibly more worried by the fact DEFRA are in charge.
 
As I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong. The horses travelled from a Country that is rife with EIA without any coggins or other test because they were destined for slaughter in France, (therefore tests or health papers not required) Once in France they came off the slaughter procedure & was sold on to in this case a British dealer. Anyone can import a horse from French borders without health papers. Voila. Just like a lot of competition horses will travel to France (Calais) & then onto other European destinations. Lets say for sake of argument Holland. Now, I am sure for me & many others my easiest route would be from Hull (North England) direct to Rotterdam Holland. Alternatively we could sail into Belgium. The point I am making is by travelling into/ out of France you do not have to provide Health certificates at a cost of approx £40 per journey per horse. Travelling to / from Holland & Belgium you do. So from a Competitors POV travelling 4 to 6 horses with a health certificate per horse on both journeys it will rack up a huge expense. Whilst to a dodgy dealer it is a legitimate loophole to carry diseased horses back into GB & at no extra cost. Crazy how this Country always protects the a ******e that causes legitimate people added problems.
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They can be destined for slaughter anywhere, not just France. The Coggins test is only relevant when the destination involves the horse remaining alive. These dealers frequently buy from the abattoirs, transport the horses via France, the ports don't give a monkeys anyway, they don't have the manpower to police them sufficiently, and in they come in their droves.

I agree that comp horses need to have health papers to travel and compete abroad outside the TPA, but are these not checked on arrival at the show??
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As I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong. The horses travelled from a Country that is rife with EIA without any coggins or other test because they were destined for slaughter in France, (therefore tests or health papers not required) Once in France they came off the slaughter procedure & was sold on to in this case a British dealer. Anyone can import a horse from French borders without health papers. Voila. Just like a lot of competition horses will travel to France (Calais) & then onto other European destinations. Lets say for sake of argument Holland. Now, I am sure for me & many others my easiest route would be from Hull (North England) direct to Rotterdam Holland. Alternatively we could sail into Belgium. The point I am making is by travelling into/ out of France you do not have to provide Health certificates at a cost of approx £40 per journey per horse. Travelling to / from Holland & Belgium you do. So from a Competitors POV travelling 4 to 6 horses with a health certificate per horse on both journeys it will rack up a huge expense. Whilst to a dodgy dealer it is a legitimate loophole to carry diseased horses back into GB & at no extra cost. Crazy how this Country always protects the a ******e that causes legitimate people added problems.
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Brilliantly and eloquently put, FRESHMAN. You have hit the nail on the head with fantastic precision.
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