Death from Illness Claim through PetPlan - Advice Please

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PercyMum

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Mt little mare was put down at the end of June due to a cut and dry case of Wobblers Syndrome.

I dutifully (and tearfully) filled in my insurance claim but I am getting a few problems with it. Firstly they (quite rightly) wanted proof of ownership so I posted off her passport. I had it filled in but hadn't had it endorsed by Wetherbys. So stupid I know but I genuinely didnt realise that that was what I had to do. I had actually spent the last few years thinking passports were silly as nobody endorsed them. Errr... stupid woman - you have to send them off. Lesson learnt :rolleyes:

Anyway, I now have to send them a receipt for my girl as I had owned her for only 3 months. The seller isnt being very cooperative about re-sending me a receipt, and I need to prove owership and I am not sure how. And my girl hasn't got him in her passport either as he was a dealer and bought her at an auction, so I am not sure a receipt will even make a difference.

A salutary tale of being careful with horsey paperwork I know and I have learnt my lesson but I still need to prove ownership to progress my claim. Any ideas how I do this? Am starting to panic as I have paid the £3K bills she incurred but kinda need the pennies back. Also (and this sounds awful) but I have lost a fair bit of money on her and it would be most helpful to get a little of it back.
 
No - basically I bought a horse off him who turned out to be totally unhinged and unsuitable. I took him back and he talked me into taking this mare on trial. I had her for 3 weeks and she was absolutely fab. Then after about 6 weeks it became clear that all was not well and she ended up going to horsey heaven. I do not blame the dealer in any way - he could nit have known and was brilliant about taking the nut-job back. He just is hard to get hold of and not very good with admin. I don't have any other proof but I would have thought that the amount of money I spent on her was proof enough of ownership but apprently not :(
 
Does the dealer advertise his stock ? Could your find an advert for the mare ? Or asking him to put in writing what you explained above. He is not assisting you to make a claim and is with-holding details :confused:

Might be worth a call to bhs legal team.

You did take a copy of the receipt you sent to your insurance claim ? If not I would ask them to scan and email ASAP before they lose the original !!!
 
How did you pay for the horse
? cheque, bank transfer?
A passport isn't proof of ownership however the receipt is.
My horse was a wobbler and had to be pts. Insurance wise it isn't the easiest of routes. you need to evidence everything that you can. Good luck
 
Will your insurance pay up anyway because you only had her for 3 months? I know when I insured mine that any illness, death etc that were to happen within the first 3 months or ownership/insurance, they would not pay out for it.
Such a shame about your horse, I hope you get this sorted out x
 
laura7981 said:
Will your insurance pay up anyway because you only had her for 3 months? I know when I insured mine that any illness, death etc that were to happen within the first 3 months or ownership/insurance, they would not pay out for it.
Such a shame about your horse, I hope you get this sorted out x
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Oh my giddy aunt, I hope so!!! There wasn't anything in the small print - just said no sickness within 14 days. I don't have a proof of sale (cheque or bank transfer) because I PX'd her with the nut-job. I don't have the original receipt - I am usually a paper hoarder but cannot find it atm for the life of me. Reading my posts again I sound like a right idiot.

I thought she was my once-in-a-lifetime forever horse. Having to go through this having lost her is just horrid. If I could just clear the vets bills it wouldnt be so bad and I would just abosrb the monetary loss of her.

Perhaps I should try the dealer agian and be a bit more robust?
 
The dealer should be able to at least give a written statement to advise you bought the horse off of them.

If not, try and get statements from vets, livery yard etc to state that to the best of their knowledge you are the legal owner. Don't worry, I worked in equine insurance and you wouldn't believe the number of times people hadn't changed the passport to their name and they'd owned the horse for years! Or they didn't have a receipt. Do you have a vaccination record with your name? That may help if you can provide that.

Regarding the question whether it would be payable after only 3 months ownership, did you have a vetting? Has the vet ever been out to your horse in the 3 months you owned her? It would not be payable if your horse fell ill within the first 14 days of cover. In your case, petplan would have to have some kind of solid evidence it was a pre-existing condition to not pay out.

PM me if you like
 
In your situation I think I would go and call at the dealers and just put a piece of paper in front of him to sign, stating that on date you bought from him X horse for £x. Just make it easy for him.
 
Whilst for vets fees u should be ok. A death/pts claim for Wobblers as I said before is tricky as there is ALOT of grey area where the condition is concerned with regards to severity. You need your paperwork in order, proof of severity/grade e.g xrays and your vet onside. It's a tough road as not all Wobbler horses meet BEVA guidelines so u need compellingly evidence and support from your vet.
I'm not trying to scare just preparing u as have been in that position.
 
Really they should have paid out for the vets fees already, as you don't have to be the owner to insure for these, just the person responsible for paying the bill. Plus you don't have to be the owner to insure for death either, simply the person paying the premium! I would be contacting BHS legal team if I were you, as I think they are being difficult for the sake of it, which they do have a habit of being in my experience.
 
zaminda said:
I would be contacting BHS legal team if I were you, as I think they are being difficult for the sake of it, which they do have a habit of being in my experience.
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Not really...

The policy terms and claim form state you need to provide proof of ownership when submitting a mortality claim. Yes, anyone with insurable interest can take the policy out but the policy holder needs to prove they should be the one receiving the value in terms of a death claim.
 
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Elbie said:
The dealer should be able to at least give a written statement to advise you bought the horse off of them.

If not, try and get statements from vets, livery yard etc to state that to the best of their knowledge you are the legal owner. Don't worry, I worked in equine insurance and you wouldn't believe the number of times people hadn't changed the passport to their name and they'd owned the horse for years! Or they didn't have a receipt. Do you have a vaccination record with your name? That may help if you can provide that.

Regarding the question whether it would be payable after only 3 months ownership, did you have a vetting? Has the vet ever been out to your horse in the 3 months you owned her? It would not be payable if your horse fell ill within the first 14 days of cover. In your case, petplan would have to have some kind of solid evidence it was a pre-existing condition to not pay out.

PM me if you like
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Thanks - thats really helpful and glad to know that I am not alone in being a bit of a doofus :o!!

I had the vet out to her when she very first arrived as she had managed to cut her hock in a really awkward place. I made a claiom as it tooka while to heal and PetPlan paid out no questions asked as it was injury, not illness. I didnt have her vetted purely because I had her on trial at my yard where my vet is. She had a quick look and agreed that there were no issues. I would hasten to add this is the first horse I have not had vetted but I think I am experienced enough to spot lameness etc and I flexion tested her on all 4 legs. My vet does not belive that the Wobblers would have shown up in a vetting as they do not test for it anyway. The speed she went downhill is also a factor. I just need to prove ownership and the dealer isnow not responding. I don't know why because I stressed to him that I hold him in no way responsible and that I just need him to sign to say he sold her to me!!!
 
Did you submit one claim form that was claiming both death and vet fees on the same form? If that is the case they may have entered it as one claim. You can ask them to process separately and so the vet fee side may get sorted quicker if you're having trouble gathering information for the death claim.

I would try and gather some statements from yard, vet etc to state you are known as the legal owner.
 
I would type out what you want the receipt to say - name of dealer, that you part exchanged the horse for other horse, dates and that you took ownership of the horse. Take it to the dealer in person and ask him to sign and date it. Maybe put on there that it is for the purposes of insurance so he doesn't think you are trying to trick him into something.

Just go round and wait till he signs it. Make it impossible for him not to sign it.

Sorry about your mare.
 
I have the same thing with Petplan and death through disease for my mare, I have had to get my vet to state that they believe that I owned my horse and also my farrier - who happens to be mny husband. I never sent my passport off to the IHB as I didn't want it lost and as I told them legally a passport does not mean ownership anyway.

I found it quite upsetting since my WB who was insured for 4x the amount of my mare was paid out with LOU by NFU with no question of anything to do with ownership. I pointed this out to Petplan. I suppose you get what you pay for NFU seem to be the ultimate insurers but are top end on cost.
 
YasandCrystal said:
I have the same thing with Petplan and death through disease for my mare, I have had to get my vet to state that they believe that I owned my horse and also my farrier - who happens to be mny husband. I never sent my passport off to the IHB as I didn't want it lost and as I told them legally a passport does not mean ownership anyway.

I found it quite upsetting since my WB who was insured for 4x the amount of my mare was paid out with LOU by NFU with no question of anything to do with ownership. I pointed this out to Petplan. I suppose you get what you pay for NFU seem to be the ultimate insurers but are top end on cost.
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Im very sorry for your loss - poor you.

Did you get a successful outcome with the statement from the vets? I will type out a receipt and take it to the dealers but if they won't accept the passport without my name in it, I dodnt see how having a receipt from him will make a difference when his name isnt in the passport either? I just want the whole thing to go away as its quite upsetting having to keep explaining myself to PetPlan.
 
I had a letter from pet plan for my shettie who is on loan......it clearly states that if they pay out for death it is to the person who insures her (loaner)..............NOT the owner...so I don't see why this actually is making any difference to them to see that you owned her.
 
EmmasMummy said:
I had a letter from pet plan for my shettie who is on loan......it clearly states that if they pay out for death it is to the person who insures her (loaner)..............NOT the owner...so I don't see why this actually is making any difference to them to see that you owned her.
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Thats very interesting - now a few HHO hae said this. Does that mean I have to speak to PetPlan and point this out to them?

Elbie - if you are there what are your thoughts having had experience of the Horse Insurance business?
 
PercyMum said:
Elbie - if you are there what are your thoughts having had experience of the Horse Insurance business?
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Yeah, Petplan decided to write into the terms etc a few years ago that payment does go to the named insured. So basically if you have a horse on loan and insure it and it dies, you get the money. Doesn't seem right to me but apparently it was to take into consideration the financial loss the loanee would have had for paying for the upkeep of the horse.

Although they pay the insured, if a loaner was trying to claim for death benefits, they would still have to provide the loan agreement to prove that they are the loaner. They're just making it clear that the payment cheque will be made out to the name on the insurance.

Basically, although payment will be made to the insured, they need to ensure that the insured has an insurable interest in the horse (wow, that was a lot of insure words!) so who pays the vets fees gets reimbursed, who bought the horse gets reimbursed etc. It helps prevent fraud - anyone can take out a policy on a horse, but to get paid you have to prove that you had ownership of it. Otherwise you could insure the horse down the road and try and claim for it!
 
Elbie said:
Yeah, Petplan decided to write into the terms etc a few years ago that payment does go to the named insured. So basically if you have a horse on loan and insure it and it dies, you get the money. Doesn't seem right to me but apparently it was to take into consideration the financial loss the loanee would have had for paying for the upkeep of the horse.

Although they pay the insured, if a loaner was trying to claim for death benefits, they would still have to provide the loan agreement to prove that they are the loaner. They're just making it clear that the payment cheque will be made out to the name on the insurance.

Basically, although payment will be made to the insured, they need to ensure that the insured has an insurable interest in the horse (wow, that was a lot of insure words!) so who pays the vets fees gets reimbursed, who bought the horse gets reimbursed etc. It helps prevent fraud - anyone can take out a policy on a horse, but to get paid you have to prove that you had ownership of it. Otherwise you could insure the horse down the road and try and claim for it!
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Great - thank you very much for that. So it looks like a trip to Warminster for me then to get a receipt signed!!
 
Yes I would write a letter/statement about what you got from the dealer etc and go and see him to get it signed. Although I would try ringing him to make an appointment with him, to make sure that he is around when you go.

It may also be worth writing him a letter and signing it saying you have no intention of trying to make a claim from him about the horse having wobblers etc. It may help your cause with him.
 
Just tried calling again, and have sent a text. Thought about sending a receipt through the post for him to sign with a SAE so he can just sign and return! I don't know if he is avoiding me - I hope not. At no stage have I ever said I am anything less than happy with the service he gave me. I didnt even tell him she had died - he actually called me to ask me how she was getting on and was gutted when I told him what had happened and was really apologetic! I made sure he knew I didnt blame him, and I would use him again if I wanted to get another horse.

Oh gosh - I've just had a thought - I hope he doesnt think I'm a rubbish crappy owner and let her down in some way???!!
 
I really wouldnt bother sending an SAE - chances are it will get dumped in a pile somewhere and not dealth with. I would go in person.
 
PercyMum said:
Im very sorry for your loss - poor you.

Did you get a successful outcome with the statement from the vets? I will type out a receipt and take it to the dealers but if they won't accept the passport without my name in it, I dodnt see how having a receipt from him will make a difference when his name isnt in the passport either? I just want the whole thing to go away as its quite upsetting having to keep explaining myself to PetPlan.
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I am still waiting so hope this will now suffice. I got really cross - why would I pay the insurance for a horse I didn't have full responsibility for. It's mad and if NFU can pay out regardless why are Petplan so different. It's typical - they take my monthly insurance premium and don't question that.
 
What a nightmare situation. I am sure no one thinks you are an idiot or dufuss (great word). You just don't expect your horse to die or be put down until it happens. We lost one in Nov and fortunately got most expenses paid out it was still a huge, unpleasant learning curve. I haven't sent our new boys passport off, got him 3 months ago - good timely reminder to get it done.
 
Magicmillbrook said:
What a nightmare situation. I am sure no one thinks you are an idiot or dufuss (great word). You just don't expect your horse to die or be put down until it happens. We lost one in Nov and fortunately got most expenses paid out it was still a huge, unpleasant learning curve. I haven't sent our new boys passport off, got him 3 months ago - good timely reminder to get it done.
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Tell me about it! Hopefully anyone reading this will get their horse registered to them if they haven't already and be able to avoid this most unpleasant situation from happening to them. So quick! Get it sent off! ;)
 
I too have one out on loan and got a letter saying loanee who pays the premium would receive the payouts for death, not the owner! Seems a bit funny really! Also I'm shocked your vet didn't think wobblers would show in a vetting. Any vet worth their salt would spot something! And that's why they ask a horse to back up in a vetting. Having sadly had a wobbler a few years ago now, I would never purchase anything even a youngster with any sort of balance issues, even if they just feel a bit drunk under saddle.
 
natalia said:
I too have one out on loan and got a letter saying loanee who pays the premium would receive the payouts for death, not the owner! Seems a bit funny really! Also I'm shocked your vet didn't think wobblers would show in a vetting. Any vet worth their salt would spot something! And that's why they ask a horse to back up in a vetting. Having sadly had a wobbler a few years ago now, I would never purchase anything even a youngster with any sort of balance issues, even if they just feel a bit drunk under saddle.
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The vet did do the back-up test when she had a look at my mare when I bought her home. I did it too. Its actually the only Wobblers test that the mare didnt have an issue with, her problem was more with holding her back end steady and side-to side stability (hope that makes sense). It has made me even more nervous of buying a new horse now! I think I have just had really, really bad luck :(
 
natalia said:
I too have one out on loan and got a letter saying loanee who pays the premium would receive the payouts for death, not the owner! Seems a bit funny really! Also I'm shocked your vet didn't think wobblers would show in a vetting. Any vet worth their salt would spot something! And that's why they ask a horse to back up in a vetting. Having sadly had a wobbler a few years ago now, I would never purchase anything even a youngster with any sort of balance issues, even if they just feel a bit drunk under saddle.
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This is why if any of mine are out on loan that I pay the insurance and both the company and passport people know that the horse is still mine but out on loan. God forbid anything happens but I want to be the one who gets the payout; it's my horse after all.
I fail to see why a loanee should be able to cash in even if they do pay their own insurance TBH, after all they have only had the use of the horse, they haven't bought or bred it so what do they have to be compensated for; very wrong clause that IMO.

OP, make sure on your receipt you put down your full name and address and the full address and contact details of the dealer rather than just their name; just in case. I'm a huge fan of crossing the Ts and dotting the Is so there's no room for misunderstanding.

For anyone now thinking of sending their passports off to be updated, please make sure to copy each relevant page of the passport before sending it so at least then you have a full copy of (at the very least) the sketch, the title page (where name and details of horse are written) the ownership page and any vaccination/medical pages. It helps too if you pencil in on the passport before copying, the date and your initials on each page you copy; you can always rub it out after copying. Then send your precious parcel off by at the least, recorded delivery so the PO and society have a record of it.
 
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