DEFRA Statement

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Bad news and nice try. I have just spoke to Defra Animal Health Import Team and as long as the horses have passports they are covered by the Tripartite agreement as they are not coming to the UK for slaughter. It makes no odds that they were due for slaughter in France whatsoever!!
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Ive only read up until your post so if someone else has replied...forgive me for repeating you.

what you have stated is NOT true regarding eastern block or Argentinian horses (Spanish horses, I dont know). When ANY equine is destined for the slaughter houses (here in Italy) they do NOT need to be accompanied by a negative Coggins test certificate. This is due to the fact that they are headed to the closed circuit of being killed and butchered meaning, they cannot possibly pass on infections of any kind to the horse herds of any other country including those found in Italy. The problem begins when the 'better' individuals are pulled out of the meat line and are sold on as saddle horses. There is the risk that said horse is then sold on to private owners (you and me) and brings with him various infectious diseases which is then let loose on the local herds. The eastern block countries are 'EIA' positive, Spain has its problems too and France has just had an outbreak. Central and southern Italy is positive to EIA and this is due to the importing of equines who have slipped the 'system' and have ended up in the private sector.
The latest I heard , via my local health vet, is that the Argentinians have gotten wise to be ripped off (buy x horses for meat which cost very little then sell them on as riding horses for more than double) and have devised a cunning plan-they cut their tendons. After all, a horse packed into a ships hold doesnt need to move around, its only 6 weeks at sea after all. When he arrives, he will be unloaded and trucked off to the slaughter house so WTF! There are no winners
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Personally even if the current defra guidelines state only a basic vetting I still would like to have the full one done if poss... Surely anyone with half a brain would????

I thought the discussion of french rescue was banned on this site due to legal implications? At least that is what HHO admin told me.
 
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TBH, I wouldn't ban that in their shoes, they can beautifully play that to their advantage, just highlight this part of the DEFRA statement:

2. There is nothing wrong with the buying and transport of rescue horses provided all the applicable legislation is complied with (including legislation in place to protect welfare) and there is no misrepresentation involved in the advertising and sale.

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Personally, it worries me when you talk about 'playing to their advantage' and suggest ignoring the majority of the advice DEFRA offers - I mean, why would you want to ignore legislation designed to protect both the so-called 'rescue' horses imported for resale, and the UK equine herd?
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I think it would be far better if anyone importing, under any name, including 'rescue' would comply with the horse welfare and transport legislation, don't you?
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Personally even if the current defra guidelines state only a basic vetting I still would like to have the full one done if poss... Surely anyone with half a brain would????

I thought the discussion of french rescue was banned on this site due to legal implications? At least that is what HHO admin told me.

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I agree - anyone importing a horse (or buying in the UK) should have a full vetting done.
And as for discussing DEFRA statements - perhaps you ought to PM Admin, threatening legal action, and that would prevent people discussing it further?
I doubt if that would be effective with DEFRA though.
S
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Personally even if the current defra guidelines state only a basic vetting I still would like to have the full one done if poss... Surely anyone with half a brain would????

I thought the discussion of french rescue was banned on this site due to legal

implications? At least that is what HHO admin told me.

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maybe at a personal level but this is now a DEFRA question so it appertains to the general public. None of the antis wanted to damn the individual, the whole 'anti' feeling was an honest desire to block the importation of the ill, deformed or weak anilmal and was/is not a personal vendetta against the honest horse lover. M.
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TBH, I wouldn't ban that in their shoes, they can beautifully play that to their advantage, just highlight this part of the DEFRA statement:

2. There is nothing wrong with the buying and transport of rescue horses provided all the applicable legislation is complied with (including legislation in place to protect welfare) and there is no misrepresentation involved in the advertising and sale.

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Personally, it worries me when you talk about 'playing to their advantage' and suggest ignoring the majority of the advice DEFRA offers - I mean, why would you want to ignore legislation designed to protect both the so-called 'rescue' horses imported for resale, and the UK equine herd?
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I think it would be far better if anyone importing, under any name, including 'rescue' would comply with the horse welfare and transport legislation, don't you?
S
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Just stating the obvious, Shills.
The reality is that people read things and interpret them how they want.
For me (and quite probably you) the Defra guidelines say that we need to be careful etc, for some (no names called) that statement means that they are not doing anything wrong.
We always see want we want to see...
 
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Just stating the obvious, Shills.
The reality is that people read things and interpret them how they want.
For me (and quite probably you) the Defra guidelines say that we need to be careful etc, for some (no names called) that statement means that they are not doing anything wrong.
We always see want we want to see...

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I disagree - 'rescuers' cannot choose how to interpret the law, any more than you and I could, or should.
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The welfare and transport legislation is written clearly, and just as ignorance would be no defence for non-compliance, nor would it be open to varying 'interpretations'.
For everyone's sake - not least the horses' - let's all comply properly and fully with the laws pertaining to horses.
S
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I disagree - 'rescuers' cannot choose how to interpret the law, any more than you and I could, or should.
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The welfare and transport legislation is written clearly, and just as ignorance would be no defence for non-compliance, nor would it be open to varying 'interpretations'.
For everyone's sake - not least the horses' - let's all comply properly and fully with the laws pertaining to horses.
S
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I think we are talking about completely different things, Shills.
It's a statement that can be approached from a few angles.
The 'franch rescuers' believe that you (a generic you) want to stop them importing horses full stop, stop them from saving lives and doing good. The part of the statement I have quoted vindicates them to a certain degree.
Surely, you won't argue that the sole act of importing those horses is illegal?
 
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I think we are talking about completely different things, Shills.
It's a statement that can be approached from a few angles.
The 'franch rescuers' believe that you (a generic you) want to stop them importing horses full stop, stop them from saving lives and doing good. The part of the statement I have quoted vindicates them to a certain degree.
Surely, you won't argue that the sole act of importing those horses is illegal?

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Again, I disagree - there are no 'angles' to horse welfare legislation, or transportation laws.
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There is only compliance, and non-compliance.
I have nothing against the abstract concept of importing horses from outside the UK, but the reality seems to be that legislation is not always either known or adhered to.
Your suggestion that importers could or should ignore the laws, 'interpret' the laws to suit themselves, or take 'angles' on them, fills me with sadness, as at the end of the day it is the horses that suffer.
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I cannot believe that any responsible person would advocate non-compliance with animal welfare laws, Martlin.
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S
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(Edited to reduce quotes as rather lengthy
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The part of the statement I have quoted vindicates them to a certain degree.

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It's not about vindication though, for anyone. It's about adhering to the guidelines. And in order to adhere - you need to be fully cognisant of the whole piece of legislation. We simply don't get to pick and choose whichever bit suits us best.......

Which is why this newly released statement is so beneficial to all parties.
 
I think at that point I will just give up...
It's a STATEMENT of DEFRA I was talking at interpreting, the different angles are simple to understand - if you are 'anti' you see it as good news, if you are 'pro' you see it as not such good news, but try to find some positives...
I don't condone breaking any laws, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying in my original post, obviously, you will choose to interpret it the way you want - and that's your prerogative.
 
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I think at that point I will just give up...
It's a STATEMENT of DEFRA I was talking at interpreting, the different angles are simple to understand - if you are 'anti' you see it as good news, if you are 'pro' you see it as not such good news, but try to find some positives...
I don't condone breaking any laws, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying in my original post, obviously, you will choose to interpret it the way you want - and that's your prerogative.

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You seem to be implying that the importers (including rescuers) should view DEFRA's guidance to complying with legislation as 'bad news', but I am not sure why?
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If the importers are already ethical and responsible, then this will change nothing for them, if not - well, time for some changes, I would say!
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S
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QR:

My personal view is that I would like to see the tripartite agreement reviewed so that horses imported into the UK from France have full health checks, including a Coggins test to ensure they are not carrying EIA. The advantages of these health checks would be two fold - one would be to reduce the risk of spreading diseases to the UK, and secondly to ensure the animals are fit enough to travel.

Once that is in place, I have no objections to people importing French horses who were originally bound for slaughter into the UK, as long as all transport regulations are strictly adhered to. However, I do feel that if people feel that they are reducing the numbers of horses who go for meat, they are sadly mistaken, as the demand for horsemeat will still be the same and another equine will be sent for slaughter even if an individual horse is 'saved'.
 
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If the importers are already ethical and responsible
S
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Ah, you see, that premise has not exactly much to do with the reality
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My original response was prompted by meateaters post saying that he/she (?) banned person trying to port the link on 'rescue sites' - I just suggested that instead of removing it/banning, he/she could highlight convenient phrases
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If the importers are already ethical and responsible
S
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Ah, you see, that premise has not exactly much to do with the reality
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My original response was prompted by meateaters post saying that he/she (?) banned person trying to port the link on 'rescue sites' - I just suggested that instead of removing it/banning, he/she could highlight convenient phrases
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I wouldn't like to comment on the reality of rescue in detail (Admin will beat us both
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).
I don't know which 'rescue sites' are banning the DEFRA statement, or link, but I cannot think of a single reason a reputable person would do that.
Ignoring it won't make it go away (I have tried that with the housework
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Ignoring it won't make it go away (I have tried that with the housework
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).
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I'm still in trial period with that one, will let you know how I get on... awaiting fairies (or maybe OH) to clean the house for me.
 
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Just stating the obvious, Shills.
The reality is that people read things and interpret them how they want.
For me (and quite probably you) the Defra guidelines say that we need to be careful etc, for some (no names called) that statement means that they are not doing anything wrong.
We always see want we want to see...

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I disagree - 'rescuers' cannot choose how to interpret the law, any more than you and I could, or should.
mad.gif

The welfare and transport legislation is written clearly, and just as ignorance would be no defence for non-compliance, nor would it be open to varying 'interpretations'.
For everyone's sake - not least the horses' - let's all comply properly and fully with the laws pertaining to horses.
S
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But none of this is a new thing is it? This agreement has been there for a while now and while some people will follow it to the letter, others won't. It isnt just about the whole french rescue issue, it is across the board, from people buying the meat horses from websites to the person who is moving to England and bringing over there horse.

NO ONE is above the law obviously, however there are many that will interpret the law to there own advantage, in every walk of life.
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Oh and I can't remember who it was who said to pm admin, however, I dont need to. This defra thing doesnt bother nor affect me in the slightest, I have never ever stated that I am against the neddies being fully vetted.
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I think what martlin is trying to say is that there can be a different emphasis on the following statement depending if you are anti or pro:
""There is nothing wrong with the buying and transport of rescue horses provided all the applicable legislation is complied with (including legislation in place to protect welfare) and there is no misrepresentation involved in the advertising and sale. ""

Anti's would see ""provided all the applicable legislation is complied with (including legislation in place to protect welfare) and there is no misrepresentation involved in the advertising and sale. "" as the most important part of the statement.
Where as pros would see the emphasis on ""There is nothing wrong with the buying and transport of rescue horses""

Am glad to see this important issue is finally being bought to the attention of the "higher powers" and hopefully this can be seen as the first step forward in more legislation and increased welfare consideration on the import and sale of the 'rescue' horses
 
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But none of this is a new thing is it?

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It is a new directive, relating specifically to the import of French 'Rescue' equines.

The foot of the page is dated the 15th June 2009.
 
To me the point is what SHOULD be enforced by legislation and at the moment isn't because of the TPA - to me the bare minimum would be a vetting to determine fitness to travel and freedom from parasites and contagious diseases, and should definitely include a current Coggins test to show EIA isn't carried. In my mind, to do anything less is irresponsible, even though it isn't a present a legal requirement.

Any further veterinary checks to determine fitness for purpose are obviously sensible for the purchaser to make.
 
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As you know MC we do offer members the opportunity to have a more thorough vetting done!
Guess this lot just dont understand what is or isn't allowed
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To be fair Meateater, you have only just brought vetting into the process, due in the main to the 'antis'.

I am very glad that you will be sticking to Defra regulations, this is really good news. I, like many others, don't have a problem with french rescue as long as the horse's welfare is the priority.
 
Yes Janet you are correct. The biggest horse abattoir in France imports horses each week from Spain. These horses are available for 'rescue' I got that from an Intl Horse Transporter who know the venue very well.

Horses in France continue to be sold without passports or incorrect passports again from Transporter travelling to France each week.

I wrote and told DEFRA this and was told there was NO INCIDENCE of Swamp Fever in the Iberian Peninsula...two weeks later it was reported in France.

It has been Eu Law for some time that horses should be accompanied by a passport when they travel.

The late Bruce Wafford presented at a conference on Equine Welfare organised by ILPH at the Dick Vet, in Edinburgh (2005). An Intl Transporter with years of experience he said in Europe 'NO ONE CHECKS the passport.' I can confirm this is the case.
 
I should add to this that I do not have an opinion on whether or not horses should be rescued from slaughter.

Horses are free to move, around a Europe which has no border controls, as are lice and midges. If you buy a horse in Europe you don't know where it has been!!

Britain should be concerned about all horses being imported not just 'rescues'.
 
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Britain should be concerned about all horses being imported not just 'rescues'.

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Which is why the TPA has outlived its usefulness, and needs to be replaced by a much more robust policy.
 
I personally am not against rescue horses from any origin if the advice from defra is fully complied with .

Although I must confess to be very worried about the potential spread of eia to this country from any horse crossing the border particularly if it has freely mixed from horses of unknown origins, so would welcome even tighter regulations where that is concerned.

I do think though that deffra must be suitably concerned about french rescues and as historically sometimes has been the import of not fully fit horses for them to spend the time in producing and publishing this statement.

It is an excellance source of guidance for the sites that help to arrange to rescue horses and ponies abroad and for that reason I cannot see why those concerned in rescues are not welcoming the statement with open arms.
If they are currently doing what they say they are doing they are already conforming and such would find posting it on their own websites could act only as a positive tool to encourage someone to commit to rescue.

After all if someone is assured that the deffra guidance will be followed, it could persuade them to actually commit to a rescue the resulting effect could be that the relevent organisations could find more prepared to rehome one of these horses destined for slaughter.
 
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