Dentist (Horse) question

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Silverspring

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Ok had the dentist out to my horse, he's fully qualified but now lives in France (I'm not sure if he's still registered etc) anyway I couldn't get to the yard. First time in the 20 odd years I've had horses that I had to miss the dentist.

I called the YO to find out if she had behaved herself as, being an Arab, she can be a bit 'lively' about these things. Depends on the mood, sometimes she's quite quiet other times it's all tantrums and tiara's.

Apparently she has impacted food in her teeth (she's 23 going on 24) so no surprise, she had it last time. But the dentist desided it needed drilled. She was not sedated and he drilled her teeth. Now I'm not happy about this at all but there's nothing I can do about it now, it's done, she's been traumatised and probably won't settle for the dentist ever again but what I am wondering is, is this common practise?

She was very stressed this evening, didn't want to eat, didn't want brushed, just generally very fidgety which isn't like her in the evening. Not sure if the teeth are sore (there was quite a bit of blood from what the YO said) or she's upset after having the drill in her mouth. This is a horse that the YO know's will not allow her face to be clipped
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anyway rant over.

Cookie for getting this far.!
 
I am surprised that she would stand still enough for him to be able to drill in her mouth....??

My mare, who is about as laid back as they come, had to be sedated to have her teeth drilled......
 
ok, was she "drilled" to widen the gap between the teeth that are impacting feed? if so this is a category 3 veterinary procedure and not only should it not be done on an unsedated horse, it is also should ONLY be dont by a vet.

There are several pulp cavities in the teeth and although looks like a simple procedure, it really isnt and can be dangerous to the structure of the teeth.

Put it this way, if i see teeth that need widening........i send them to Henry Tremaine a vet/dental specialist at Bristol vet school where the horse is x rayed, heavily sedated, possibly nerve blocked before the widening procedure!
 
i am of the opinion that doing any sort of remedial work on horses un sedated is rather like trying to change the oil in a moving car,it can be done but easily messed up and can become very messy and a high danger of fxxxing it right up.
that said the word drilling is not really any sort of procedure so maybe best to find out exactly what he did and why..........he might just have really blended in the buccal and lingual edges of the teeth to help feed pass over rather than stick in ect hard to judge when dont have an accurate description of what has been done.........
 
I'd be furious if that was done without my permission, and I'd also question whether what he did was actually legal let alone ethical.

From what you say it sounds like he perhaps did diastema burring to widen the gaps between her teeth to stop food getting stuck there, which is of highly questionable legality when done by a non-vet.

Fair play to your girl if she put up with it. I wouldn't be suprised if she is a bit sore, and if it continues then I'd get the vet out to give her the once over and perhaps a bit of bute.
 
If you want to call the vet there is probably not much they can do, if any damage has been done there is no fix im afraid. The most important thing now is to make sure if she has lots of soft tissue damage, she may well be v sore and will need bute etc.

If she is eating by the morn, try not to worry too much :-)
 
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If you want to call the vet there is probably not much they can do, if any damage has been done there is no fix im afraid. The most important thing now is to make sure if she has lots of soft tissue damage, she may well be v sore and will need bute etc.

If she is eating by the morn, try not to worry too much :-)

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Agree that the vet won't do anything but he/she is unlikely to hand out bute without a bit of a look.
 
Agree with Victoria and Chris.

Victoria, I was under the impression that the BEVA/BAEDT guidelines actually say that power tools should only be used under sedation. I was told that recently by a BAEDT registered EDT. I only use hand tools (not power tools) for routine work and have picked up a lot of clients recently because of this.
 
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Victoria, I was under the impression that the BEVA/BAEDT guidelines actually say that power tools should only be used under sedation.

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This is what I thought to. He definitely did use the drill but I don't believe it was to widen the gap he was trying to smooth her teeth out. I was told they have started to move, which is expected of an old horse (mu sister old mare is having the same problem) and to try to stop impaction he was 'straightening' them up a bit.

She was eating last night when I went to see her, maybe abit tentative with the apple I gave her but it didn't get finished. I will hopefully see the YO this evening and establish what work was carried out, I hope to good he wasn't widening the gaps as I would want to have been consulted before making such a decision.

thanks for all the responses, I though I was maybe being a bit soft when I first posted. She's an old lady and I really hate to think of her getting stressed out with people shoving power tools in her mouth
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we wont get into the "power tool" debate here because it does of course depend on whether you are going to wield carbide chip power float or a diamond coated disc.

However, diastema widening is a completley different story and shouldnt be done by an EDT full stop regardless of whether the horse is sedated or not.
 
Carbide will slice and dice soft tissue and diamond is soft tissue friendly (unless you trap it in a cylindrical burr), discs you can run on your skin for a few seconds and does no damage at all.

Re guidlines, perhaps give Gill Spinney a call at BAEDT
 
Bit odd, so as a member of the BAEDT you can't/won't say what the guidelines are. I'm not after a debate/arguement but getting back to the thread, I would have thought it was in the general horse owners interest to know what is recommended that's all.

This isn't personal Victoria, it was something that came up in a passing conversation with a BAEDT member and I thought u would be able to quickly answer as ur an active member of the organisation...
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Bit odd, so as a member of the BAEDT you can't/won't say what the guidelines are. I'm not after a debate/arguement but getting back to the thread, I would have thought it was in the general horse owners interest to know what is recommended that's all.


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Being a member of an organisation doesn't mean you are necessarily 'qualified' to publicly interpret rules and guidance given by that organisation - particularly as there are some very grey areas at present. I'm very unsure about what point the deregulation of SOME acts of equine dentistry is currently at (I'm not an EDT but take a considerable interest) and the current state of play with legislation is not clearly spelled out on the BAEDT web site. See http://www.baedt.com/legislation.php

But from the OP's description of what was done - even though it's understandably slightly vague - I would say I'd be VERY unhappy if my qualified EDT did that to a horse of mine. Sounds like sedation AND pain relief were called for - both the province of a vet, even IF the actual work was 'legal' for an EDT qualified or not) to carry out!
 
the truth is at present until the exemption order is passed all level 2 procedures including the use of motorised machines is illegal,this was stated to me this week by chris pearce who i gather is the baedt and beva authority on dentistry.so thats that for that bit.in regardfs to the original post as i said earlier it may be best to get in touch with said dentist and confirm what he actually did or did not do before we go about presuming as that can be a dangerous thing and he isnt on hear to explain his actions therefore it should be left alone untill the facts are present rather than acting as a lynch mob.... just my humble opinion
 
it is a very grey area at the moment and the legalities of it are v confusing.
Current regulations cut and pasted from BAEDT website (note the bit about use of motorised dental equipment):
"A further group of procedures have recently been designated as advanced dental procedures. These procedures are at present deemed to be acts of veterinary surgery but are currently being deregulated by The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons who are amending the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 to legally allow these defined procedures to be performed by qualified EDTs who have passed the British Equine Veterinary Association (BEVA)/British Veterinary Dental Association (BVDA) examination. These advanced equine dental procedures are termed:
Category 2 Equine Dental Procedures and include:

* Extraction of loose teeth, including both cheek teeth and incisors, including deciduous cheek teeth or teeth suffering from advanced periodontal disease. However teeth which have been loosened by trauma must have further investigation by a veterinary surgeon - i.e x-rays if necessary - before being extracted
* Extraction of normal, fully erupted and non-displaced wolf teeth
* Removal of large dental overgrowths (over 5mm tall and involving over 50% of the occlusal surface of the tooth) and overgrowths over 5mm tall of whole teeth.
* Techniques requiring the use of dental shears, inertia hammers and motorized dental instruments including power rasps.
* Treatment of fractured and diseased teeth.
* Extraction of dental fragments and palliative rasping of fractured and adjacent teeth."

The RCVS have stated that they do not wish to persue any legal prosecution to any BEVA (and i think WWAED) qualified EDTs carrying out the above procedures but will most definately persue it if unqualified EDTs are caught and is provable.
 
Lorraine, its not that i dont want to answer and yes i am an active member and have attended the AGMs, signed the exemption order etc etc but i dont want to say something that is not factually correct. So your best bet is to find out from BAEDT itself
 
Ah I see. Victoria as I said it was nothing personal, I just thought u would know as you have good knowledge of BAEDT stuff and Chris knows the WWAED stuff. As you say it is very 'grey' at the moment so I didn't want to make any statements either - LOL!
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TROUBLE WITH THE WHOLE BLOODY INDUSTRY IS THE EXEMPTION ORDER IS ONLY PROPOSED,ITS BEEN DEBATED OVER FOR NEARLY 20 YEARS NOW AND THE CHANCE OF IT GETTING SORTED SOON IS VERY VERY SLIM AS EVERY DENTAL ORGANISATION I.E THE BAEDT AND WWAED AND SHORTLY THE IAED ALL HAVE TO AGREE TO THE CONDITIONS AND AS THE MAIN PEOPLE DONT SEE EYE TO EYE THIS JUST WONT HAPPEN,ALSO THE SAME LEGISLATION INCLUDES AT LEAST 4 BAREFOOT TRIMERS ORGANISATIONS WHO AGAIN ALL HAVE TO AGREE.....SO IM SORRY TO SAY THAT ALL DENTISTS WEATHER QUALIFIED OR NOT ARE STILL IN A AWKWARD SITUATION UNTILL IT IS ALL SORTED OUT,THE MAIN BAEDT SITE AS VICTORIA PASTED ON STATES THAT IT HAS NOT BEEN PASSED AS YET SO THERE ARE ONLY LEGAL WHEN IT IS,,,,
 
Ok updated. I only briefly spoke to YO and basically got the same story, her teeth have started to move one of them had gone up the way. He used the power tool to smooth the tooth down to stop food getting caught and impacting again.

I'm going to get the guys full name and check out the qualifications, I'll be sure to be there next time he visits but if he's not qualified he won't be touching my horse again!

She seems a lot happier this evening, chilled out and nibbling away on her haylage. My sister was advised to move her horse into hay as it was less likely to get impacted, is there any truth in that?

Thanks for all the replies
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thats really good to hear miss sparkle..its something many do as really dous help.generally under sedation and shouldnt draw blood though,,,,,but hey we wernt there so cant really comment as i think neither should any of us in the profesion slag off others without seeing the work
 
Just IMO i wouldnt draw blood but it is difficult to see exactly what he did.

Glad she is doing well though, if you are concerned look him up and see if he is registered. If he his go ahead and convey your concerns to the BAEDT :-)
 
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