Deposit paid on horse that's not fit- long! Sorry

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Rlm

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Hi there. I'd appreciate any advice. :(

I paid a substantial deposit on a horse with a view to paying the last few hundred this month. The week before we had him, a horse kicked him and he had a small cut on his leg. The owner called a vet who apparently said it was a small cut and would heal fine. She assured us it was superficial and would heal fine. As we had got to know the owner quite well, we trusted her and she said she would make the vets records available but horse was very healthy in every other way.

we rested him without any riding for 2 weeks while he settled in and noticed the wound area, scabbed over and healed ok but still looked slightly swollen so we kept putting cool packs on it and gently walking him. We noticed that his leg was not getting better and although he wasn't in pain, he started tripping on his leg and as He needed his shoes done we thought that was the reason so got them changed this week. It didn't get any better so we called a vet.

She said the injury is much more serious and the kick had affected his bones in his knee, where the wound was. She said he shouldn't have been sold and needs thousands of pounds of treatment which may not work and could not be ridden safely or do anything that we bought him from, I rang the owner and she basically said 'tough' and that we knew the horse was injured so it's not her problem and she wants the balance. We're stuck with a horse that I feel was misold. There's a big difference between a small cut that will heal and a horse that the vet said she would have 'failed'. She says any vet who would have checked the horse but have advised not to sell and she probably wanted to get rid of him.

Were very gutted as we are attached to him.

What do you think. I know we should have got an independent check but I never thought this would have happened.
 
I am a bit confused. Normal practice is to pay a small deposit to hold the horse whilst vetting is arranged and then pay the purchase price when the horse is loaded onto your transport.

You seem to have paid most of the purchase price, leaving the horse with the vendor who has allowed a sold horse to get injured. How bizarre.
 
Yes I know. We arranged with the owner to pay for the horse in 2 stages, and he got injured in between us paying the deposit and collecting him while we arranged the stabling. She agreed to give us 4 weeks to pay the balance. I do believe that she probably didn't realise the injury was as damaging as it was but it turned out to have damaged the bones in his knee.
 
I don't think you were missold as unless the owner had reason to ask the vet to xray the leg, which it seems she was not advised to by her vet, she would have had no idea how serious a minor cut could prove be, you should not really have taken the horse home until it had recovered and was sound, which in this case it appears it may not, you would then have been in a position to get the deposit refunded.
I think this is a very grey area, you should have insured the horse once you had paid the bulk of the money, then any treatment would be covered, you should have had the horse vetted or at least refused to collect until it was fit, the time between an offer being accepted, deposit paid, balance paid and collection is an extremely stressful time as if something goes wrong at that time it can be difficult to know what to do, most honorable sellers would retain ownership and responsibility hand back the deposit and treat the injury but if the vet had given it the all clear, genuinely, then the owner will feel they have done nothing wrong.

I think I would look into what treatment is required, your post is not very clear on the damage, diagnosis or treatment which will costs thousands? also find out why it may never be ridden safely as that seems rather drastic following what was just a small kick, it may well be that there was an underlying condition that has been aggravated in which case you may have a stronger case to return the horse.

You really need legal advice but it is likely that in the circumstances you will find it will cost more to try and return the horse, unless the seller is a dealer, than to treat him, although I certainly would not be paying the balance.
 
I do know what you mean. We paid the deposit and was due to collect him a few days later, which is when the kick happened. We let the horse rest a week as that's what her vet advised, but apparently he assured her the horse would be fine. I do believe she didn't know but either way she has sold us a horse that is not fit.

The vet today says that the bones in his knee have been damaged which means he cannot bend his leg fully back which is why he is slipping. She said that she doubts the vet actually told her that as she did a simple test which he should have done and he should have replicated the problem. She showed us where the bones are touching each other when they are not meant to. He said we could get an X-ray but in his opinion the horse was never fit for sale and even if surgery was done, it's still touch and go if they can repair it.

She is still demanding the balance and I've told her no way and asked for at least some of the money back as some of it is my own stupidity.
 
This is the scenario I dread when selling any animal. I am so sorry you are having to go through it. I hate deposits and always sell on the understanding that ownership (and responsibility) passes with the money.

I am not a lawyer, but I'd suggest this situation needs to be looked at in two parts. First, there is a legal contract for sale. A price has been agreed, there has been consideration (money has changed hands) and the horse has been sold.

The second part of the bargain is that the seller agreed to look after the horse for you until you could collect. The fact that the purchase price was to be paid in two instalments is not relevant. If they had said they'd send the invoice on for the whole sum, the deal would be the same. The only point that varies is how and when the purchase price is to be paid. That does not affect the bones of the contract in my opinion.

But the seller has a duty of care to look after your horse "as a prudent owner would do". I think it is for you to show that she did not take reasonable care of the horse and was negligent by (a) allowing it to get kicked, and (b) not engaging a suitably qualified vet who failed to diagnose the true extent of the injury. Both a and b are going to be tricky. Under (b), would it have made any difference to the outcome if he had?

If you are not already a BHS Gold Member, the standard advice is to immediately become one so you can take advantage of their free legal help from a specialist equine vet. Sorry not to bring better news. It's a tough one.
 
I think you need some decent legal advice you bought the horse and you knew it had the defect .
I think they may well be able to claim because of this you assumed the risk.
Really rotten luck and poor poor horse .
 
Thanks everyone. I appreciate it. It's difficult and we are more sorry for the horse. I think I will try and find a horse sanctuary that will take him as he can hopefully still enjoy his life taking things easy. So sad x
 
I also think you need legal advice but I suspect they may say that you entered a contract to buy the horse when you paid the first instalment and it was up to you to arrange insurance. If the horse was considered sold to you at the time of the injury it doesn't really matter whether it was a small injury or a serious one, or whether the first vet got it right or not, he was still your horse at the time. Very unfortunate but sadly these things do happen with horses, they can have serious accidents at any time.

As for the sanctuary I hope you find something but my understanding is that they only take welfare cases and that they are full to the rafters anyway. The second vet's diagnosis sounds a bit quick. What are you doing to treat the horse? Does he have an infection? Are you trying antibiotics? If you leave an infection untreated I doubt he will be able to be retired.
 
Hi. They are saying it's not infected, but skeletal damage due to the kick therefore medication won't help unfortunately. Obviously he's not being ridden or anything. I will try the sanctuaries as I really don't think he's needs to be euthanised. Seems cruel for him. Never again!
 
Sorry but it still sounds weird. How can they know there is skeletal damage without an x-ray? What does skeletal damage even mean? Does he have a bone chip? That usually needs to be removed, sometimes even for retirement purposes.
 
What has the seller said about this new diagnosis? When are you due to pay the rest of the money?

I agree that I don't think you were mis-sold and these things do happen unfortunately, which is why I never take a deposit for any animal. I consider them my responsibility until they leave my property.

What a shame you had not taken out insurance when you paid the deposit.

I would take legal advice but I don't think you have any comeback I'm afraid.
 
I do not think you were mis-sold either but it's rotten luck. I hope you can resolve the dispute over the purchase price amicably with some goodwill on both sides.
Poor horse, -best wishes to him for recovery and a secure future.
 
how can they confirm skeletal damages without an xray? surely they can't predict anything with xraying?
 
The vet did some tests on him and the bones are touching each other when his leg was bent and they shouldn't be. He was kicked in the knee join area by another large horse. She offered X-rays but says she would be surprised if she was wrong. Insurance wouldn't have covered it as it was a ongoing injury apparently. They can do surgery but it would cost a few thousand. The balance of the horse is due the end of this month, which I won't be paying.
 
A vet who guesses is no use to you or anyone else. There are machines that will give a correct diagnosis rather than a guess. Any joint is a complex structure and needs investigating properly.

Your legal case, in my simplistic mind, is down to when/has title of ownership passed and who has duty of care to the horse. My own thoughts would be title of ownership does not pass until all monies have changed hands, or in the case of an auctioned horse when the hammer drops. Whose responsibility is the horse, the vendor who has not been paid in full or the purchaser who has only partially paid for the horse. Who has responsibility for the welfare of the horse. All very confusing in my mind
 
That's what I'm thinking too. She has retained the passport until he is paid for. And the full price hasn't been paid. I understand that she may not have known however the fact remains that the injury happened before we collected the horse.
 
We are now trying it give the horse away as a companion horse so that he can avoid being euthanised as the vendor won't take him back.
 
You need a full diagnosis before you can palm him off, or you will be doing exactly what his old owner has done....
 
Rlm said:
We are now trying it give the horse away as a companion horse so that he can avoid being euthanised as the vendor won't take him back.
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I dont want to be unkind to you but if you dont want to take on the vet bills why would anyone else?
 
Re people who mentioned insurance, most companies don't cover you for the first fourteen days after insurance taken out anyway.
 
Rlm said:
We are now trying it give the horse away as a companion horse so that he can avoid being euthanised as the vendor won't take him back.
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You need to be careful with this route. It may seem like the "kindest" option, as you think you are avoiding having the horse pts. However a physically unsound horse such as this could end up being sold on and used for riding at some point in the future. Is this really fair? A difficult decision either way.
 
Do the right thing if you are not going to get a vet to xray and see the true damage or pay for possible surgery do not leave a crippled horse to become arthritic and suffer all his life, so pts, do not pass him on to others to watch him go down hill.

I dont know how experienced you are with horses but it really is the kindest way to treat a big animal who relies on humans to make their life easy
 
He doesn't require any treatment, he just can't be ridden much that's all. I really don't want him to be pts, he's only 5 years old. I will have to think about it. Thanks for your advice everyone
 
Rlm said:
He doesn't require any treatment, he just can't be ridden much that's all. I really don't want him to be pts, he's only 5 years old. I will have to think about it. Thanks for your advice everyone
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Such a difficult position to be in :-(
 
luckyoldme said:
Such a difficult position to be in :-(
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It's my worst nightmare to be honest. All we wanted was a horse for my daughter to ride. It's her first horse and she's heartbroken. Plus because we have paid out so much for the horse she won't be getting another on due to finances. Shame but we've learnt the hard way.
 
Welcome to the darker side of horses!

Can I ask did you have a contract/sale agreement when you paid deposit on the horse? If not lesson learnt, if so phone the BHS or CAB for their advice. You need to establish who owns the horse before you can proceed.

Please do get a proper diagnosis on this horse from a reputable equine vet - no decision can be made without concrete evidence that the horse can/can not make a full recovery.

If the horse is 'broke' then please consider pts. There is a horse welfare crisis in this country if you haven't already heard - all the charities are full to bursting and horses are being abandoned up and down the country. It is very unlikely you will find a home for a permanently lame 5yr and you run the risk of him falling into the wrong hands, and possible being sold on to another unsuspecting owner. Please do the right thing, regardless of any monies involved, as the horses welfare HAS to be the priority over lost finances and pride.
 
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I really think that you are being hasty. You have two options IMO, the first is to get proper legal advice to see if you can force the seller to take him back and to refund you. The second option (if 1 isn't possible) is to get the X-ray done to see if the Vet is correct or not. I couldn't write off a five year old without investigating the injury properly.
 
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