Mike007
Well-Known Member
Good thoughts but I would want a bit longer in case it is ligament damage.
desperate for any last ditch ideas- close to the end
- Thread starter clairefeekerry1
- Start date
Girlracer
Well-Known Member
What an utterly infuriating situation, must be very dis-heartning.
I have to say as soon as i read your post re him falling down a rabbit hole i immediately thought this is possibly something difficult to diagnose, i.e. within the shoulder as already suggested. That fall has to of triggered something if you started to notice problems shortly afterwards.
I don't know what to recommend, other than not to give up hope, from what you've said there is something under-lying as a result of that fall that is just very hard to trace.
I hope you come to a solution soon.
I have to say as soon as i read your post re him falling down a rabbit hole i immediately thought this is possibly something difficult to diagnose, i.e. within the shoulder as already suggested. That fall has to of triggered something if you started to notice problems shortly afterwards.
I don't know what to recommend, other than not to give up hope, from what you've said there is something under-lying as a result of that fall that is just very hard to trace.
I hope you come to a solution soon.
Bedlam
Well-Known Member
hope this works,pic of front feet
Not sure that I like this pic of his front feet tbh. The near fore looks very different to the off. What have the vets said about this? Have you consulted a remedial farrier?
Whereabouts are you and which equine hospital have you been using?
ElvisandTilly
Well-Known Member
So sorry you are going through all this with your boy but your story is quite similar to mine I had with my boy.
I'll try to cut a very long story short! It started with him moving crooked and not looking quite right and trot was a hop, shuffle and he couldn't keep a regular beat. Dropping his left hip and not stepping under. Got referred to vet hosp as suspected ocd in stifle. They arthroscoped and found nothing but soft tissue inflammation, treated with IRAP and vet bills of £6000 later he was still the same
The vets said nothing they could do other than more investigation. Insurance run out so I decided to have a look at things myself. Had a reading with Margrit Coates. She picked up on pain in areas my qualified physio said he wasn't hurting in.
I looked at his foot balance and they were out of balance medially/laterally. In Jan last year changed farrier and his feet were balanced and instantly he started walking much straighter! Still not right in his trot though and I had also gone treeless which helped but wasn't the solution. He needed his body rebalancing as he was used to his feet being out of balance that his body now couldn't cope with his feet being correct.
I was willing to try anything so when someone on yard was having their headshacker looked at by a cranio sacral treatment I decided to let her look at my horse. She treated him and picked up on all the areas Margrit had mentioned interestingly!!
Within 48 hours I took him into the school and he was a different horse!! He glided into his trot and it was free moving and regular! We haven't looked back! Well till I broke my leg..... but thats another story!! lol!!
I have a treatment every 6 months and it costs the same as my equine physio used to cost!
I use Julie Houghton of www.equinetherapyservices.co.uk
Sorry if I have rattled on here!! If you have any questions or need further info then just ask or PM me. Wishing you all the luck in getting to the bottom of what is going on as I can certainly understand how you will be feeling right now.
I'll try to cut a very long story short! It started with him moving crooked and not looking quite right and trot was a hop, shuffle and he couldn't keep a regular beat. Dropping his left hip and not stepping under. Got referred to vet hosp as suspected ocd in stifle. They arthroscoped and found nothing but soft tissue inflammation, treated with IRAP and vet bills of £6000 later he was still the same
The vets said nothing they could do other than more investigation. Insurance run out so I decided to have a look at things myself. Had a reading with Margrit Coates. She picked up on pain in areas my qualified physio said he wasn't hurting in.
I looked at his foot balance and they were out of balance medially/laterally. In Jan last year changed farrier and his feet were balanced and instantly he started walking much straighter! Still not right in his trot though and I had also gone treeless which helped but wasn't the solution. He needed his body rebalancing as he was used to his feet being out of balance that his body now couldn't cope with his feet being correct.
I was willing to try anything so when someone on yard was having their headshacker looked at by a cranio sacral treatment I decided to let her look at my horse. She treated him and picked up on all the areas Margrit had mentioned interestingly!!
Within 48 hours I took him into the school and he was a different horse!! He glided into his trot and it was free moving and regular! We haven't looked back! Well till I broke my leg..... but thats another story!! lol!!
I have a treatment every 6 months and it costs the same as my equine physio used to cost!
I use Julie Houghton of www.equinetherapyservices.co.uk
Sorry if I have rattled on here!! If you have any questions or need further info then just ask or PM me. Wishing you all the luck in getting to the bottom of what is going on as I can certainly understand how you will be feeling right now.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
I've only quickly scanned through this but
a) I honestly think you need a lot better farrier than the one you have, possibly a decent remedial one. Those feet look very unbalanced to me and could make all the difference to him.
b) The rabbit hole thing would worry me, I'm amazed at your vets' attitude to that
c) Have you tried this it's meant to be an excellent diagnostic aid, sorry if I've missed if you have? http://www.equiscan.co.uk/
d) Don't poo-poo the communicator out of hand. If they're as good as the one who did mine and a friend's horses just from a photo. She 'knew' several things that nobody else but each of us knew about our own mares that could not possibly just have been lucky stabs in the dark which could have applied to other horses as well; it was really quite freaky - but explained a lot at that time!
e) If nothing can be found once those - and any others- have been tried, I would be very inclined to give him at least the rest of the year off at grass while keeping his feet regularly looked after at the same time; it's amazing what Dr Green can do for 'unknown' and unseen injuries especially when given their own time without any pressure to recover. As someone else said, the old vets only had their eyes and horse sense, some diagnostic tools have taken away - or not taught- younger vets that.
Don't write him off just yet, please, give nature a chance to help.
a) I honestly think you need a lot better farrier than the one you have, possibly a decent remedial one. Those feet look very unbalanced to me and could make all the difference to him.
b) The rabbit hole thing would worry me, I'm amazed at your vets' attitude to that
c) Have you tried this it's meant to be an excellent diagnostic aid, sorry if I've missed if you have? http://www.equiscan.co.uk/
d) Don't poo-poo the communicator out of hand. If they're as good as the one who did mine and a friend's horses just from a photo. She 'knew' several things that nobody else but each of us knew about our own mares that could not possibly just have been lucky stabs in the dark which could have applied to other horses as well; it was really quite freaky - but explained a lot at that time!
e) If nothing can be found once those - and any others- have been tried, I would be very inclined to give him at least the rest of the year off at grass while keeping his feet regularly looked after at the same time; it's amazing what Dr Green can do for 'unknown' and unseen injuries especially when given their own time without any pressure to recover. As someone else said, the old vets only had their eyes and horse sense, some diagnostic tools have taken away - or not taught- younger vets that.
Don't write him off just yet, please, give nature a chance to help.
clairefeekerry1
Well-Known Member
Thank you every one. I too do not like his feet and I have changed farrier and have a highly reccomend remedial farrier coming out next week. He has deem to 3 equine practices in 12 months including a two week stay at the rvc and was seen by a top international vet there. The rabbit hole thing has been hammered home but there is no evidence to back this up that it caused a problem. I am now over my 5000 vets fee limit and having to cover everything myself so funds are limited. Did get thermal imageing done which showed nothing. The lady said he was one of the best images she'd seen! I have a body work person coming out next week. I have contacted two communicators one of which has been mentioned on here earlier but next date available is sept. He already has had 6 months out at grass with zero improvement. In fact he was prob worse afterwards!
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Are those his FRONT feet? Because if so, he is desperately seriously toe-out in conformation isn't he???? Or is it just the angle of the photo? It actually looks bad enough to me that if you were working him seriously and jumping him a normal amount for a young sports horse that it could easily aggravate a shoulder ligament injury, too deep to show up on a scan, caused by falling down a rabbit hole. If it's as bad as it looks, I would think it could even cause a shoulder problem in a hard-working horse.
I've no idea what to suggest to put it right, sorry. The only other deep shoulder issue that I have ever known about is currently swanning away life in a field near me at a neighbour's house because he never came right
I've no idea what to suggest to put it right, sorry. The only other deep shoulder issue that I have ever known about is currently swanning away life in a field near me at a neighbour's house because he never came right
clairefeekerry1
Well-Known Member
Yep those are his front feet. The angle isn't great but yes they do turn quite alot. They actually turn in more than out. Black one is worse. They never used to look that bad hence why i'm getting a specialist farrier out. They dont sit flush with the floor if you seen what I mean. You could slide a ruler underneath them.
debsflo
Well-Known Member
i agree front feet look very different,near fore especially. sorry if youve mentioned but which leg went down the rabbit holes.. i too think vets cant diagnose everything and esp the deep areas of muscle,soft tissue are hard to access but that accident must have had some impact..
debsflo
Well-Known Member
will be interesting to see what new farrier advises.
clairefeekerry1
Well-Known Member
Was actually both front legs that went down the hole. Kinda tripped him over. It was by no means a terrible accident. Just a bit of a trip then picked himself up and we carried on.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
I am with this suggestion. Personally I would get an iridologist in - for the £40 it will cost you you can't lose imo. The iridology report I had done on my horse showed an inherent kidney problem and misaligned pelvis - it is fascinating and accurate. Good luck!
Hebe
Well-Known Member
The hiking gait, makes me think string halt maybe? I dunno, I do hope that you get to the bottom of everything
Tr0uble
Well-Known Member
In an earlier post you said he had been blood tested and "something about muscle enzymes"
What exactly was this? Were the enzymes raised? Could he be suffering from EPSM or some other cause of tying up, your boy sounds horribly familiar to kind, who was finally diagnosed with EXertional rhabdomyolysis syndrome last year.
What exactly was this? Were the enzymes raised? Could he be suffering from EPSM or some other cause of tying up, your boy sounds horribly familiar to kind, who was finally diagnosed with EXertional rhabdomyolysis syndrome last year.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Not good! But you know that and hopefully new farrier will rule out foot issues.
Still not sure if you have actually had a urea levels test done for kidney function and a liver function test. I don't think either of them are included in an ordinary blood test, but I'm not sure.
ps OH will be fine. Planned op, big but successful
I hope your horse turns out as well.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
Just seen feet pics which dont look good - going to ask hubby who does lots of remedial farriery work to take a look.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
It's very hard to tell from that photo but if YOU'RE concerned about his feet, that's as important as anything. Definitely seems to have been an under-investigated area.
Can I ask where you are?
Can I ask where you are?
clairefeekerry1
Well-Known Member
I'm in oxfordshire. I'm really interested to hear any ideas on his feet. Have got some more pic that i'll put up later. Might put them up under a new thread as this is getting long.
clairefeekerry1
Well-Known Member
All the blood tests done came back normal. But they were just standard tests. Why haven't the vets suggested things like emps or another form of tying up?
abb123
Well-Known Member
Hi - it does look as if the feet may be an issue. I just wanted to say though that if this isn't the issue it may be worth having a think about other problems than just feet/legs etc.
My mare started to be difficult to ride/handle and her gait would become a bit odd. We couldn't find any problems with her and I was at a dead end when she had a bout of serious colic. It appears that she had a type of colic where part of her gut pops in and out of an adjacent cavity in her abdomen. The vets think that it had been popping in and out for a while - hence the ridden issues we were having. A year on, she is back to her normal self now.
I'm not suggesting that this is what your horse has, but to maybe think of other issues that could cause pain when being ridden rather than just concentrating on mechanical issues.
My mare started to be difficult to ride/handle and her gait would become a bit odd. We couldn't find any problems with her and I was at a dead end when she had a bout of serious colic. It appears that she had a type of colic where part of her gut pops in and out of an adjacent cavity in her abdomen. The vets think that it had been popping in and out for a while - hence the ridden issues we were having. A year on, she is back to her normal self now.
I'm not suggesting that this is what your horse has, but to maybe think of other issues that could cause pain when being ridden rather than just concentrating on mechanical issues.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Sorry OP if you've already mentioned this - but have they done an MRI to check the DDFT??
Tr0uble
Well-Known Member
I had to fight and push with my vets to get them to consider ERS, and I was right, they were wrong.
I had to go through with a muscle biopsy for my boy, and even then it had to be run for stains by two different labs to get the diagnosis.
I had to go through with a muscle biopsy for my boy, and even then it had to be run for stains by two different labs to get the diagnosis.
Puddles
Member
Hi,
I feel for you. Your story sounds similar to mine only some what worse (sorry!). I would take a serious look at his feet - after all everything else has been looked at and come back with nothing significant.
I have had my horse for 14 years - he is now 18 and I have had 14 years have on going issues which had aways been put down to behaviour by various vets and other professionals. Over the last two years he had started over the winter with a peculiar gait in trot - a refusal to go forward resulting in a hopping type action - can't describe it but very very strange and always in trot. Appears sound in the field, bute trial no significant difference. Last year vet started to look at it but came up with nothing much and it 'went away' spent the rest of the year not quite right but could never get to the bottom of it so he had a 'holiday' and has spent the rest of the time as a gentle hack. This winter again 'hopping' came back - vet again not sure and getting no where although issues in comparison to yours very slight.
My horse has always had poor feet, farrier felt that he was doing all he could and vet happy with farrier. Vet felt issues were just 'his type' (welsh Sect D) and that they were not causing any problems or nothing that would explain the issues....
To cut a long story short there have been other issues but finally and after a lot of trial and error EPSM is a possibility - jury is still out but diet change is showing improvement and I decided to tackle the feet thinking there must be somthing I can do and I am running out of time - horse is aging by the day and I have nothing left to lose. It has made an amazing difference to my horse and he just might be getting back to normal. It is early days but the change for the better that I have seen in just a short space of time is incredible. He has stopped this 'hoppiing' trot and will happily trot - HUGE Improvement!!
Your horses issues may not be entirely due to his feet but it is one thing that you can see is not right. I use a Barefoot Trimmer - for trimming AND the advice! My farrier is also involved.
It might be not be the answer but it is another line of enquiry and another possibility to eliminate!!
All the best and I really do hope you get to the bottom of it.
P
I feel for you. Your story sounds similar to mine only some what worse (sorry!). I would take a serious look at his feet - after all everything else has been looked at and come back with nothing significant.
I have had my horse for 14 years - he is now 18 and I have had 14 years have on going issues which had aways been put down to behaviour by various vets and other professionals. Over the last two years he had started over the winter with a peculiar gait in trot - a refusal to go forward resulting in a hopping type action - can't describe it but very very strange and always in trot. Appears sound in the field, bute trial no significant difference. Last year vet started to look at it but came up with nothing much and it 'went away' spent the rest of the year not quite right but could never get to the bottom of it so he had a 'holiday' and has spent the rest of the time as a gentle hack. This winter again 'hopping' came back - vet again not sure and getting no where although issues in comparison to yours very slight.
My horse has always had poor feet, farrier felt that he was doing all he could and vet happy with farrier. Vet felt issues were just 'his type' (welsh Sect D) and that they were not causing any problems or nothing that would explain the issues....
To cut a long story short there have been other issues but finally and after a lot of trial and error EPSM is a possibility - jury is still out but diet change is showing improvement and I decided to tackle the feet thinking there must be somthing I can do and I am running out of time - horse is aging by the day and I have nothing left to lose. It has made an amazing difference to my horse and he just might be getting back to normal. It is early days but the change for the better that I have seen in just a short space of time is incredible. He has stopped this 'hoppiing' trot and will happily trot - HUGE Improvement!!
Your horses issues may not be entirely due to his feet but it is one thing that you can see is not right. I use a Barefoot Trimmer - for trimming AND the advice! My farrier is also involved.
It might be not be the answer but it is another line of enquiry and another possibility to eliminate!!
All the best and I really do hope you get to the bottom of it.
P
POLLDARK
Well-Known Member
I know this is a long shot, but if a dog was showing intermittent hop/skip in trot gait you would be looking at either a slipping stifle joint or hip dysplasia. The slipping stifle is a too shallow groove in the joint so that the ligament jumps out of the groove now & then resulting in a hiking motion. Hip dysplasia is too shallow a hip joint (ball & socket) so that slippage occurs & again a hiking up hip motion. I know this is dogs but just trying to help in anyway.
Bojangles
Well-Known Member
Have you had your back check too?? My horse is very senstive when it's out it really affect him badly and make's him move odd. Do let us know re animal commcation who are you having too??
clairefeekerry1
Well-Known Member
Sorry am on my iphone so cant reply to all the threads. His back has been checked to death as has teeth. So should I ask for a biopsy to be done. Sounds like i'll have to push for this.
amandap
Well-Known Member
I was going to suggest feet at the beginning of your thread, but I am a bit obsessed with them and ignorant about lameness issues in general. Have you looked at his diet and management? Might be worth contacting an experienced trimmer for a consultation or ideas as well as a Farrier. Nic Barker at Rockley Farm springs to mind. Just a thought...
Also, have you considered thermography as a possible way to point to where any muscular problems may indicate other problems?
Also, have you considered thermography as a possible way to point to where any muscular problems may indicate other problems?
clairefeekerry1
Well-Known Member
Thermography was done recently showing nothing. Thermograper said he is one of the better looking horses she's seen in a long time. Spoken to the remedial saddler who says his feet really really need looking at. Going to start a new post tonight with pictures of his feet. Thank you so much for all your response. X
foxy1
Well-Known Member
It's the feet that are really jumping out at me too, I would go down this road next
Good luck!
Good luck!
soloequestrian
Well-Known Member
Another suggestion.... you could get in touch with Balance International. Their saddling system is a 'formal' and more technical version of your using a thick pad. Carol is very good with posture and improving the horses ability to use its own body, so if you could get her to have a look it might be very helpful. They can also put you in touch with Gavin Schofield, who does sort of 'healing' stuff. I'm not at all sure about what he does, but if I was in a 'last ditch' situation, I would get him in because it can't do any harm and you just never know....