Desperate for help, can the vets really get it wrong

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ducktails

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I have a feeling that this is going to sound so desperate that I could possibly sound crazy, but bear with me and please if you have anything to offer please do, because quite honestly I am at the end of my tether...

As brief as possible history, after 6 months of messing around with my own vets I sent my horse up to Animal Health Trust for a full lameness work up. Diagnosis was chronic suspensory damage to both hind legs, chronic damage to left fore suspensory and arthritic changes to sacro illiac joint. Sue Dyson told me my mare would never come back into any amount of athletic work and I applied for loss of use. At the grand old age of 7 I told my insurance company that I felt she would not be suitable as a pet and I didn't want to watch her deteriorate so elected for euthanasia....

Then.. I hear about Roger Meacock of natural healing solutions who I paid £300 (not normally that much but he came to me as I didn't want to put my girl through 6 hours of travelling). Roger came out and basically told me my horses teeth were awful despite being done and that her foot balance was poor and that this is what has caused the suspensory damage, he also came out put her pelvis back in and said thats what has caused the sacro illiac damage and that she will not only be able to be ridden, BUT be able to return to full athletic work that is within her capabilities including jumping, schooling etc. The future was to get her teeth done by bob livock (3 hours away) sort out the foot balance then bring her back into work.

cue me getting excited then only on coming down from the excitement has it left me feeling so confused that I can spend 6k at a vets to be told shoot her and 300 quid with this guy who said the problems are not permanent. Sooo I called back to Sue Dyson and put what Roger Meacock has said to me to her and she has basically called Roger a cowboy who is prying on gullible (I prefer desperate to give their horse every chance) owners. She has said that studies have been preformed on suspensory damage by vets and that even with damage detected to hind limbs within 6 weeks the return to work ratio is 14%.

I am so confused, this guy sounds so sure I know sugar cubes off this forum has also took his advice over Sue Dysons on her horse but I can't see how the vets you spend 6k on with all the machinery can be wrong over a guy and his theories.. I know who I want to believe and what he says make sense but I can't drag my self through this much longer. This mare is my baby, I need to make the right decision for her.

So please any advice, anyone out there had a horse recover from hind limb suspensory damage, insurance money is over surgery wasn't an option and I refuse to put her on box rest if the prognosis really is so poor. If doctor grass will do it she can have as much of the bloody green stuff as she wants but if this guy is talking **** and someone knows it out there please let me know.

If you have got to the bottom send me your address and I'll send you a medal

Terri

also in comp and vet
 
Oh god hun this sounds like a nightmare! I wish I could offer you some advice but I don't feel like I know enough about this sort of injury to advise you either way. The thing I will say though is that vets CAN be wrong. I don't want to go into it on a public forum but I had some nightmare issues with vets last year that led to my horse suffering a lot more than was necessary. I really hope you work out what is right for you and your horse :). Sorry I couldn't be more help.
 
With vets as with medicine, nothing is 100%, there is always the case that bucks the trend. I must admit that I don't have any experience with the conditions you have mentioned so I can't offer any advice on that. One thing that might be worth looking into is barefoot rehab. Rockly Farm is the place, worth a call at least perhaps to discuss where your horse is currently and if they think they can help at all? I know they have had written off horses come sound and into full work after time there. Def not cowboys either! Depends on if it is right for your horse though. http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/RockleyFarm/Home.html
Lots of luck with your horse, hugs for this hard time.
 
Ok where do I start. Well I am very sorry to hear about your horse but there are one or two things you can do.

Personally Sue Dyson hasn't built up a reputation as an excellent but straight talking vet for nothing! I know nothing about Mr Roger Meacock but he does sound very suspicious too me. Yes, vets can sometimes get it wrong as they are only human. But Sue Dyson is an excellent vet.

If you are able to claim loss of use for your horse then that's what you must do. At least that way you will have some financial recompense with maybe enough money to buy another horse. Secondly Dr Green does have great healing properties. Why don't you want to put your horse through box rest? She is young enough to be given a chance. Is your main aim to compete her?

I have known horses to come sound from being turned away for a year in a paddock ( well looked after of course) If she is sensible enough why couldn't you do that for her? However if you have run out of funds and patients and you can not see a future for this mare be it with you or anybody else then you should do the kindest thing and have her PTS.
 
I couldn't read that and not post. I haven't got any experience with those injuries either so can't offer any practical advice so here are some virtual hugs ((((())))) instead.

What if you go down the route of giving the mare a second chance on the basis of Roger Meacock's diagnosis and he is wrong - what would happen with regards to your claim on your insurance? Would they still pay out even if your vet has told you LOU/PTS? Money may not be your concern now (sounds like you care for your mare too much for it to be) but there is that aspect you need to think about, particularly if you wish to purchase another horse in the future.

If you are just going to turn her away and see what happens and not go down LOU/PTS then what harm can seeing what RM's suggestions do (providing the treatment won't harm the mare more of course).

Good luck, don't envy you in this situation at all. It's very difficult when you don't 100% "trust" the experts.
 
If x rays show boney changes (arthritic) in her sacroiliac how can "manipulating" her pelvis have cured it?

I have just had a mare all but written off with a sacroiliac problem. The only way to keep her in ridden work is expensive, specialist injections into the area 3 ish times a year.... forever to keep her in work. I have been told that it not an area that "corrects" itself (like a hock bone spavin).

I would be very wary of this guy... What do you think of your horses foot balance? Do you think he had a point?
 
If the alternative is euthenasia, I definitely try something else - although my suggestion would be to go barefoot rather than try remedial farriery to sort out her feet. The ability of horses to grow the foot they need under them when they are given the chance astonishes me. The thing that puts me off a bit about Mr Meacock (who I have no knowledge of) is his prediction of a return to full work - makes me smell a bit of a rat, all of the really good horsey professionals/therapists I know tend to be quite cautious in their prognosis. 7 is ever such a young age to be writing her off completely and she may recover to an extent, but a return to full soundness & athletic work sounds rather optimistic :o
 
Oh a bloody hard one.

I took my four and a half year old mare to Sue Dyson at the AHT two years ago this month. Chronic damage to both hind suspensory ligaments.

Tigs had had very little work, due to being young and being on/off lame since the January. She had had regular McTimmony treatment. We used a very reputable and widely acknowldeged as excellent farrier. Our vet is an equine specialist.

Broke my heart.

I researched everything. Everywhere. I spent hours on the internet. I talked to back people, farriers, other vets, chiropractors, McTimmony. I tracked down every specialist who possibly could help. I bombarded Sue and my own vet with thoughts and ideas. I pulled strings in the horse world that I wouldn't never of dreamt of trying if I hadn't been so desperate.

Tigs went downhil fast. A couple of weeks after the AHT she couldn't turn properly; everything slowed down; then she couldn't stale properly, unable to balance her off-hind especially.

I took Dragonatum's Lady ("Tiggy") back to the AHT to have her put to sleep and for them to further their research into suspensory ligament damage.

I am so sorry hun. I desperately hope that there is something that can be done, and I will never forgive myself for missing a treatment that would have saved Tiggy.
 
Hi my heart goes out to you.
I'm in similar situation because last week my wonderful showjumper was diagnosed with suspensory problems in both front legs. He is going to be off for 6 months but luckily he can be gently and gradually exercised and the prognosis is very positive.
I would be very wary of anyone making such huge promises. be very careful . I would do anything to get my horse back in action but Sue Dyson is a world class vet. She is the expert. Do the same research I did and you will see that the science and facts are there. It's horrible and there will be tears cos I did exactly the same, hoping that my vet was wrong.Or got prognosis wrong. Any hope at all really. I've lump in my throat already for you and your poor young horse.
 
Hi, really sorry to hear this sounds like an absolute horrible situation.

However Sue Dyson is probably regarded as the country's best diagnostician, she can see things that other vets pass over or completely ignore, I know she can come across very clinical but do believe that she has the best interest of the horse at heart.

Having said this I do know of people who for varying reasons have not followed her advice re PTS their horses, which I can understand as it is a horrendous decision to make, and gone down other routes, with very long drawn out processes and end results still not seen and with the possibility they might never be seen, which will result in the horse still having to be PTS.

It is a very difficult place that you are in and couldn't really say what I would do if I were you, big hugs, but I think in my head I would follow the advise of a very very respected vet.

Thoughts are with you.
 
Hi
I'm so sorry that you are having such a bad time at the moment and unfortunately I don't have any experience with the injuries but have had experience of RM

I have owned my little mare for almost 4 years now and after the first year she started becoming nappy, lame behind occasionally and bunny hopping in canter. in the next 2 + years she has had 3 different vet practices look at her and they have diagnosed a number of different thing including hormones, muscle probles, stiffness and general attitude. She also saw a vet physio, did rehab work, had time off etc. Over £2000 later I still had a mare that was very unhappy.

However last March I had RM come and look at her, he found that there was a problem in her near stifle and hock, he treated her and has seen her twice since and from the first treatment I have a mare that will hack out, has competed at dressage and rc ode and (touch wood) is sound :)
It is also important to remember that RM is actually a qualified vet too

However, just because his treatment worked for mine doesn't mean that it will for others and I'm sure there will be negative and positive views about both vets. And yes I believe vets can get it wrong. Good luck sending lots of positive thoughts.
 
I am so sorry to hear of what a difficult and upsetting predicament you are faced with. I have zero experience or knowledge of this condition so cannot advise, but reading the other replies it seems like there is some wonderful advice here.
All the best with it
 
Because of the work industry i am in i have come across hundreds of horses with suspensory damage, main treatment is lots and lots of cold therapy, bute and trimed in the beginning (1 month) plus bubble booting, then turn out, out of 100 - 50 continue to the job they did before the injury but continue to have lameness issues 40 were PTS and 10 continue to do the job they did before and are 100% fine. Its a case of how chronic is the injury and how well it heals, good luck. She may become sound but never be able to be at the same standard before the injury. We have to put out love for our animal before our own feelings where their continued soundness and pain is concerned, horses do not like to be unsound it is fearful for them because in the wild they would be the first on the prey list.
 
Thank you so much for everyones replies of course some excellent advice and well the hugs and love mean a lot.

I have already pursued the loss of use claim so I will have until the loss adjusters come back to me to make a decision on what to do. Bit scared about how she will cope if we have a harsh winter but they always surprise us don't they.

Am going to ask my vet to allow me some time when they are net up my yard, I need to trya nd get an idea of what level of pain she is in. Is boggy winter ground going to make life harder. I might even ask to speak to a different vet to see if there is a different view.
 
Oh dear, well I presume youv'e tried to do more research on this guy and his other customers?
I dont fully trust vets, last year my mum phoned me in tears as her 20 yr old mare had colic and the vet told her she was coming back in an hr to put her down, but mum said she wanted just a bit more time with her.
I take a half days holiday from work, and rush home to find her mare nibbling hay!!!!
she turned around once or twice to touch her belly and was a little sweaty and it took another 24 hrs for her to have a wee and poo, but she was definatey not a horse that needed putting down! that cost my poor mum £400 for nothing but bad advise!

Id do a little more research, maybe speak to some other vets, and farriers and dentists if this man thinks feet and teeth being improved will make a difference.
 
You have my sympathy. I currently have a horse in hospital - insurance money has run out, and still no sign of a definite cure. It's hard to know when to say enough is enough, especially when you have gone so far and put so much time, tears and effort in. If rest and grass may help, and you think she is worth it, give it a go. x
 
Can't comment on suspensory ligament damage as not experienced this but can comment on SI injury. Mine was diagnosed with Chronic SI strain and almost but not quite kissing spine (ie spinal process almost touching and probably painful) 5 years ago by Sue Dyson. Her diagnosis I feel was very accurate and I do respect her judgement - her outlook for my horse was "guarded" i.e. not that hopeful and I thought it was a death sentence but with perseverance, physio, exercises, special shoes, steroids twice, changes to the way I school etc. I have had 5 years of fun and have done most things at riding club and unaffiliated level inc. dressage up to Elementary, of hunter trials etc. although now at 15 I think the dressage is too much for him so have cut this back but went on a sponsored ride a couple of weeks ago which he really enjoyed.

If she is not detrimental to her well-being then it may be worth a shot but either way it is a tough decision and only one you will know the answer to. Wishing you all the best
 
Surely if you (or your insurance co) has spent that much then £300 is worth a gamble?
Great believer in Dr. Green/ 24 hr turnout with good rugs on. I was ctually nearly there with suspensory on a tb when it got kicked and broke its' leg. Good luck, whatever happens you will get over it eventually.
 
My friend took her horse to Sue Dyson, diagnosis suspensory ligament damage. He has been retired for about 3 years and has never looked that lame to me, but now is being slowly brought back into work, bare back and barefoot. He seems ok for now.
Sorry but I can't help thinking some vets seem to have favoured aliments.

A few years ago my ID/TB was put down for Navicular syndrome, as were a lot at that time. Nothing ever showed up on autopy or MRI scan, then there was a rush on OCD and a few people I know lost their youngsters,and one of mine was suspected of having it, but that drew a blank in the end on investigation and he is fine now . Later the "buzz" aliment was Sacro- iliac damage, Kissing spines, then complications as a result of flushing of infected joint following puncture wounds.

Hence I am very skeptical about veterinary diagnosis for vague lameness issues.

This year it seems to be Suspensory Desmitis and I have two friends who horses have this one has been operated on.
I think if someone has given you some hope for a different outcome, I would go for it.
If only I had know my horse may just have needed to go barefoot and had been given time and space to heal maybe he would be here today.
 
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