Desperate measures - 'UK foxhunters should be protected ethnic minority'

Miss_Millie

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That data is inaccurate in several ways but I imagine it is not from an impartial/accurate source. It certainly doesn't reflect Ministry of Justice, Police or Wildlife Trust (for example) data.

And yet, we have multiple posters on here who have experienced trespass and other illegal behaviour first hand, so how can you honestly say that only 'some' hunts operate illegally? It would be interesting to tally up the various hunts who have caused offence and inconvenience to forum members, given that HHO represents only a tiny proportion of rural UK.
 

PurpleSpots

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If all the hunt activity in one season has resulted in only 24 (33) fox deaths over so many hunts, how on Earth can hunting be considered an effective or even necessary form of fox control?

What were the figures for fox deaths per season before the ban, just out of interest?

Has there been any impact whatsoever on fox prey numbers of any species to any significant degree since the ban?

In addition to being cruel and inhumane, there seems to be no reasonable justification for hunting live foxes to continue - other than it being an 'addiction' or 'obsession' of some people's to maintain a hunt and chase foxes. Perhaps councilling to help them to identify what drives them to want to do this, and to help them to focus their energies into something more positive would help?
 

blitznbobs

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I wouldn’t recommend this to anyone doing it. The drug dogs would come into the sorting office regularly when I worked for the Royal Mail and also the packages bloody stink and it’s very obvious, not that I grassed on anyone but some might.

so many people abuse alcohol so they’re just as likely to do the same with drugs if they were legal. I think the damage it would do would be colossal considering one hit of heroine can make you addicted. Also don’t like the idea of the likes of Rohypnol being so easily accessed.
One hit of heroine is extremely unlikely to result in addiction … if it did most mothers in this country would be addicted … myself included, as it is an incredibly common drug to use in childbirth… it is used in operating theatres across the land as is fentanyl and alfentanil that have much more addictive tendencies. These single doses never cause addiction… (ongoing use of them as pain relievers after discharge from hospital definitely does) Very few drugs are addictive after a single dose but what is addictive is the lifestyle that goes with the illegal taking of these drugs. If we are going to solve the drugs issues in this country (which would not be as massive as they are if drugs were even slightly difficult to get hold of) we have to start the conversation based on reality not this narrative that is being told that all drugs are bad and banning them protects people from them. Most drug deaths are caused by drugs being cut with things that aren’t what the person taking them thinks they are taking. Heroine cut with fentanyl is becoming all too common - causing massive ods but more medical problems are caused by them being cut with talc and flour and the such like.

Banning something rarely (never ) works . Education and reducing poverty and abusive childhoods definitely does but to enable safer drug taking can only really happen if drugs are legalised
 

Caol Ila

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One hit of heroine is extremely unlikely to result in addiction … if it did most mothers in this country would be addicted … myself included, as it is an incredibly common drug to use in childbirth… it is used in operating theatres across the land as is fentanyl and alfentanil that have much more addictive tendencies. These single doses never cause addiction… (ongoing use of them as pain relievers after discharge from hospital definitely does) Very few drugs are addictive after a single dose but what is addictive is the lifestyle that goes with the illegal taking of these drugs. If we are going to solve the drugs issues in this country (which would not be as massive as they are if drugs were even slightly difficult to get hold of) we have to start the conversation based on reality not this narrative that is being told that all drugs are bad and banning them protects people from them. Most drug deaths are caused by drugs being cut with things that aren’t what the person taking them thinks they are taking. Heroine cut with fentanyl is becoming all too common - causing massive ods but more medical problems are caused by them being cut with talc and flour and the such like.

Banning something rarely (never ) works . Education and reducing poverty and abusive childhoods definitely does but to enable safer drug taking can only really happen if drugs are legalised

Indeed. The United States has had some draconian laws punishing possession, like long prison sentences for having a couple grams of cocaine or even weed (in some States) and drug use continued to skyrocket.

You ever hear about the experiment they did with rats? They got the rats hooked on something -- I can't remember whether it was coke or an opioid. Then they put one group of rats in a cage where there was nothing. Just basic food and water to keep them alive, but no toys, nothing to chew on, no mental stimulation. They put another group of rats into a cage that was like rat heaven. Tons of toys, tunnels, soft bedding, everything a rat could want. The rats in the deprived cage gobbled up the opiates with more and more enthusiasm, while the rats in the luxury cage weren't that interested in them. Obviously we are more complicated than rats, but the point is that high levels of misuse of drugs and alcohol is associated with people having unhappiness and some sort of deprivation in their lives, which banning those things won't fix.

Also, we all know hunts don't hunt foxes like wolves. Come on. Or that ecologically sound fox control is their main reason for existing. You could do that with a gun and one dog, and dispatch foxes much quicker and more humanely. It's fun, same reason we all ride dressage or event or hack our horses.

I'm for bringing back wolves, though!
 

skinnydipper

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I seem to remember that there was some talk on here not only about using fox urine but also, as if the whole thing wasn't disgusting enough, using scent derived from decomposing fox.

Dogs are pretty smart when it comes to scent discrimination and if hounds are superior to other dogs then there should be no problem teaching them to hunt an artificial non animal based scent.

No need to use urine at all, from anywhere.
 

palo1

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I seem to remember that there was some talk on here not only about using fox urine but also, as if the whole thing wasn't disgusting enough, using scent derived from decomposing fox.

Dogs are pretty smart when it comes to scent discrimination and if hounds are superior to other dogs then there should be no problem teaching them to hunt an artificial non animal based scent.

No need to use urine at all, from anywhere.
Yes, dead fox from shot foxes is used quite often I think and yes, you are right about a hound's scenting ability.
 

palo1

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and there we have it.

20 years post ban and hounds are still being trained to hunt fox.
That was very much part of the compromise that was The Hunting Act; you cannot blame hunters for doing as the law allows and even recognised as appropriate. If you understood the history and context of The Hunting Act you would not be surprised or shocked at this. I know many people in hunting who would totally support the use of a non -animal, natural scent but many others who still feel betrayed by the political process and who want to remain as close to traditional hunting (and within the law - I'm not talking about illegal hunting here) as they can. It was bad law, terrible in fact, to leave so many legal holes but without those holes, allowances, exemptions and compromises, it wouldn't exist at all. The L.P. Was hell bent on getting a Hunting Act in place so, lacking any other option, they took the bad one.

Many people interested in hound work would accept following a non animal based scent, if that were complex enough and variable enough to be a proper challenge for hounds and work is ongoing, and has been, to find that. I know no-one, personally, who thinks it is ethical to use any kind of farmed urine based scent, hence huntsman's pee. That at least is natural and very variable. There is generally more determination in trail hunting to make the trail much harder to follow because the speed and reliability of a dragged scent, over fences has a more horse-rider based appeal. Drag hunting IS different - faster and much easier unless you have a very determined and skilful trail layer.

I don't expect to make any difference to existing prejudices and hard held ideas here tbh, but I have been involved in hunting for a long time and do feel it's worth explaining my own, real lived experience. It may not suit other's narratives.
 

paddy555

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I don't expect to make any difference to existing prejudices and hard held ideas here tbh, but I have been involved in hunting for a long time and do feel it's worth explaining my own, real lived experience. It may not suit other's narratives.
the problem is that other's own real lived experiences very much differ and the rest of us have to cope/manage/put up/accept the damage caused by a few people causing chaos because of what it means to them and it is not an outdated hobby. Not only do we have to put up with it and accept damage but we are rarely told it is going to happen. That makes it even more fun for us. 🤣 🤣 🤣
Shame the followers block the road but no problem because our journeys are not that important anyway. :(

People who have had animals, horses, cats etc damaged or even killed don't quite see it the same way as you do.
If a group of 50 trials bikes with no manners spent a couple of hours charging around your farm, your animals were left charging around and upset, one of your horses ended up on the ground would you mind? If they had told you at least you could have taken precautions.
That is what the rest of us have to put up with

OK it is not you personally causing that problem and your hunt may be the best mannered in the country but it is the rest of them and they are not.

Some people like me want it totally banned not just because of animal cruelty (and you have to admit there have been some pretty miserable videos of it over the last few years) but because we are simply fed up of it. I cannot think of any other group of people who cause the same chaos and disruption as hunts. Then we add the other side (antis) to that and we have total road blockage and people running around on land they have no right to be on.

I remember the end of a hunt last year I think when that hunting chap (cannot remember his name but the prominent one whose comments came to light) was stood with his horse on one side of the road and the antis with their balaclavas were stood on the other. This was a quiet country lane for heavens sake. It was quite intimidating driving through the middle of them.

Hunters cannot pursue their hobby in accordance with the hunting act so the only way is a complete ban.
The only problem with that as far as I can see is likely to be the incompetence of the Labour govt. I don't have much hope they are going to get this right but I suppose we can be hopeful.
 

Irish-Only

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The Hunting Act was passed in 2004 after a Government Inquiry and 700 hours of parliamentary debate. There was never any evidence to justify a ban on hunting and the Chairman of the Inquiry, Lord Burns, said during a debate on the Bill: "Naturally, people ask whether we were implying that hunting is cruel... The short answer to that question is no. There was not sufficient verifiable evidence or data safely to reach views about cruelty." Professors Sir John Marsh and Michael Winter, members of the Burns Inquiry team wrote to the then Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in 2005 stating: “I would like to draw your attention to Lord Burn’s comment that the committee did not have sufficient evidence to reach a clear conclusion on whether hunting involves significantly worse welfare effects than other legal methods of control…Describing as we did the final moments of a hunt as ‘seriously compromising the welfare of the hunted animal’ should not be taken as a suggestion that hunting was measurably worse than other legal methods, or that abolition would improve the plight of wild animals in the countryside.

A Veterinary Opinion on Hunting with Hounds, supported by over 560 members of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons states that: “Hunting with hounds is the natural and most humane method of managing and controlling foxes, hares, deer and mink in the countryside”. This opinion was reached after careful consideration of all the various methods of control and their implications for the wild animal. It is notable that four former senior executives of the League Against Cruel Sports have all changed their minds about hunting having looked at the facts. James Barrington, ex-Director League Against Cruel Sports has stated: “The Hunting Act, instead of improving animal welfare, has actually made it worse and a detailed analysis of this law reveals illogical and unprincipled conditions that in no way can be argued as welfare-friendly.”

Moreover, 97% of successful prosecutions under the Hunting Act were unrelated to regulated hunting and could have been prosecuted under legislation in place long before the Hunting Act was passed. Given the fact that the Act has done nothing for animal welfare, I would welcome an opportunity to see this matter sensibly resolved once and for all, with which I am sure you would agree. I, along with the courts, police and many welfare experts, believe good legislation should be based on principle and evidence and the Hunting Act fails to meet these criteria. Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, powers exist for secondary legislation and codes of practice to be made to promote the welfare of animals.
 

skinnydipper

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The Hunting Act was passed in 2004 after a Government Inquiry and 700 hours of parliamentary debate. There was never any evidence to justify a ban on hunting and the Chairman of the Inquiry, Lord Burns, said during a debate on the Bill: "Naturally, people ask whether we were implying that hunting is cruel... The short answer to that question is no. There was not sufficient verifiable evidence or data safely to reach views about cruelty." Professors Sir John Marsh and Michael Winter, members of the Burns Inquiry team wrote to the then Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in 2005 stating: “I would like to draw your attention to Lord Burn’s comment that the committee did not have sufficient evidence to reach a clear conclusion on whether hunting involves significantly worse welfare effects than other legal methods of control…Describing as we did the final moments of a hunt as ‘seriously compromising the welfare of the hunted animal’ should not be taken as a suggestion that hunting was measurably worse than other legal methods, or that abolition would improve the plight of wild animals in the countryside.

A Veterinary Opinion on Hunting with Hounds, supported by over 560 members of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons states that: “Hunting with hounds is the natural and most humane method of managing and controlling foxes, hares, deer and mink in the countryside”. This opinion was reached after careful consideration of all the various methods of control and their implications for the wild animal. It is notable that four former senior executives of the League Against Cruel Sports have all changed their minds about hunting having looked at the facts. James Barrington, ex-Director League Against Cruel Sports has stated: “The Hunting Act, instead of improving animal welfare, has actually made it worse and a detailed analysis of this law reveals illogical and unprincipled conditions that in no way can be argued as welfare-friendly.”

Moreover, 97% of successful prosecutions under the Hunting Act were unrelated to regulated hunting and could have been prosecuted under legislation in place long before the Hunting Act was passed. Given the fact that the Act has done nothing for animal welfare, I would welcome an opportunity to see this matter sensibly resolved once and for all, with which I am sure you would agree. I, along with the courts, police and many welfare experts, believe good legislation should be based on principle and evidence and the Hunting Act fails to meet these criteria. Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, powers exist for secondary legislation and codes of practice to be made to promote the welfare of animals.

If you are going to quote somebody word for word then I think you should provide a link. Unless of course you are the person who wrote it?

 
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Fred66

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I cannot think of any other group of people who cause the same chaos and disruption as hunts. Then we add the other side (antis) to that and we have total road blockage and people running around on land they have no right to be on.

I remember the end of a hunt last year I think when that hunting chap (cannot remember his name but the prominent one whose comments came to light) was stood with his horse on one side of the road and the antis with their balaclavas were stood on the other. This was a quiet country lane for heavens sake. It was quite intimidating driving through the middle of them.
So part of your argument for banning hunting is relating to the inconvenience that hunting causes others, the intimidation that occurs due to protestors and that if it were banned then this would stop 🙄

So basically no hobbies (I would disagree that it is just a hobby but that is not the point I am making) that inconvenience others and if someone cares enough to protest something we should ban it in case someone else feels intimidated.

That’s football gone, cycling gone, no horse racing, probably no horse riding, no dogs, etc etc

We share the world we have to accept that there are things in the world that might inconvenience us from time to time and just learn to accept it.
 

Tiddlypom

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I’ve not seen the clip, but according to posts on the Countryside Alliance Hunting FB page the pro hunt speaker Ed Swales was ‘torn to shreds’ on ITV this morning.

Hunting Kind and the Countryside Alliance don’t see eye to eye, the former feel totally let down by the latter.

ETA This is the clip.

 
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Clodagh

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I’ve not seen the clip, but according to posts on the Countryside Alliance Hunting FB page the pro hunt speaker was ‘torn to shreds’ on ITV this morning.

Hunting Kind and the Countryside Alliance don’t see eye to eye, the former feel totally let down by the latter.
The CA are absolutely useless. IMO.
Bring back the BFSS!
 

Clodagh

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Did the CA replace the BFSS?

Agree that the CA are epically useless.
Kind of. I think (could be wrong, I was abroad through a lot of this) the BFSS and every other vaguely rural campaign group joined together into one incoherent uncovered mass and named it the Countryside alliance.
 

paddy555

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So part of your argument for banning hunting is relating to the inconvenience that hunting causes others, the intimidation that occurs due to protestors and that if it were banned then this would stop 🙄

So basically no hobbies (I would disagree that it is just a hobby but that is not the point I am making) that inconvenience others and if someone cares enough to protest something we should ban it in case someone else feels intimidated.

That’s football gone, cycling gone, no horse racing, probably no horse riding, no dogs, etc etc

We share the world we have to accept that there are things in the world that might inconvenience us from time to time and just learn to accept it.
but the point is they don't cycle, horse race, let their dogs loose on my property. That is the difference. If someone wants to take their dog for a walk then fine. Plenty of roads and pavements and footpaths. They don't have to let it loose (hounds) to run over my land. That is very important to me as when they did this they damaged fencing and if it had been 2 minutes earlier my dog would have escaped from his secure paddock. He would have followed the hounds. The hounds ran into my neighbours sheep. I was left to repair the damage

My friend had his ponies field electric fenced. Wasn't told the hunt would be around. Hounds went through the field, fencing considerably damaged. These are not one off occurrences I'm sure there are many on here could give you similar examples.

Same with my horses or any other animals.
What about people in villages where hounds chase cats. Should they just learn to accept the inconvenience.

The problem is NOT inconvenience. It is a lot more than that. If someone is told do not let your dogs loose on my fields then that surely is pretty clear.

Turning your argument around what right do a small group of people have to cause trouble for the general public? If you are living in your cottage in a village is it not reasonable that your dog, cat or whatever should be able to safely wander in it's own garden.
Country roads are narrow. That means if a line of hunt supporters vehicles are blocking it we cannot get through. Is there any reason not to be considerate to others and not block it in the first place?

Why should the general public have to put up with that so few "special" people can charge around on horses with a pack of dogs running everywhere? Normal horse riders don't usually cause much of a problem.

I think the general problem with the hunt is they don't "share the world" and consider others. Why shouldn't they? are their activities so secret they cannot advertise them? The damage they do is irrelevant to them. Cycling, football etc don't cause that damage.
 

palo1

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As I understand it, since the precedent where ethical veganism became an identified minority, a set of beliefs and practices do qualify. Other unchosen characteristics are indeed slightly different but there is a legal protection for chosen and practiced beliefs (you can choose to be a vegan or a Christian or a Druid, Rastafarian etc for example) and belief based practices that are significant to your way of life, such as veganism do have a standing and protection in law. The law is a dynamic thing and in the past, groups of people with specific characteristics and difficulties, such immigrants, were not recognized or protected in law. They are now thankfully.
 

palo1

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but the point is they don't cycle, horse race, let their dogs loose on my property. That is the difference. If someone wants to take their dog for a walk then fine. Plenty of roads and pavements and footpaths. They don't have to let it loose (hounds) to run over my land. That is very important to me as when they did this they damaged fencing and if it had been 2 minutes earlier my dog would have escaped from his secure paddock. He would have followed the hounds. The hounds ran into my neighbours sheep. I was left to repair the damage

My friend had his ponies field electric fenced. Wasn't told the hunt would be around. Hounds went through the field, fencing considerably damaged. These are not one off occurrences I'm sure there are many on here could give you similar examples.

Same with my horses or any other animals.
What about people in villages where hounds chase cats. Should they just learn to accept the inconvenience.

The problem is NOT inconvenience. It is a lot more than that. If someone is told do not let your dogs loose on my fields then that surely is pretty clear.

Turning your argument around what right do a small group of people have to cause trouble for the general public? If you are living in your cottage in a village is it not reasonable that your dog, cat or whatever should be able to safely wander in it's own garden.
Country roads are narrow. That means if a line of hunt supporters vehicles are blocking it we cannot get through. Is there any reason not to be considerate to others and not block it in the first place?

Why should the general public have to put up with that so few "special" people can charge around on horses with a pack of dogs running everywhere? Normal horse riders don't usually cause much of a problem.

I think the general problem with the hunt is they don't "share the world" and consider others. Why shouldn't they? are their activities so secret they cannot advertise them? The damage they do is irrelevant to them. Cycling, football etc don't cause that damage.
Well some of those activities massively inconvenience other people; those whose towns and neighbourhoods are overrun with football supporters at times, with, at times some unpleasant consequences. People who live in places where there are festivals and all manner of events are inconvenienced: yfc rallies, tractor runs, cycling events etc. Not all of those events share considerately and there are wrong'uns at a great many events. Dog walkers let dogs do all manner of unpleasant, inconsiderate, dangerous and cruel things, as can walkers etc.
 

Irish-Only

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One of the conclusions of the Burns report into hunting by Blair - "insensibility and death will normally follow within a matter of seconds once the fox is caught". I have witnessed a hunted fox (pre ban) who stopped, sat down and had a scratch, then ambled along back to his den. Clearly not worried. I have also seen the bad side of shooting, a fox with a mangled back leg that bled to death, found under a stationary farm vehicle in the morning.

  • There are lots of opposing views on this post understandably, that's the kind of forum it is. Regardless of this debate, the hunts are trail hunting, and are doing this well, and this has also encouraged more riding followers who maybe previously wouldn't have participated. There is inevitably going to be a reaction to the new Govt when it has said that it will revisit this subject and aim to ban trail hunting. This view is because of some miscreants who have chosen to act outside of the present law, and there are MP's who wish to tar everyone with the same brush. Considering that the majority of court cases with regard to illegal hunting have been thrown out, or those found guilty are not members of the British Hound Sport Association, and the Hunting governing body have been very pro-active in ensuring that any members who decide to ignore the legislation is banned from hunting for life, I'm not sure what can be done to appease the nay sayers. Yes I hunt and can say hand on heart that whichever pack I have been out with do their utmost to ensure all followers, be they mounted or in cars ensure that other road users can continue on their way with minimal disruption. I used to clear country for a days hunting and I made sure that horse owners in the area knew what day we would be in the area. I would also liaise with the local wildlife officer. On the contrary, the behaviour of those opposed to hunting who appear wearing balaclava's or face coverings, who deliberately antagonise followers, trespass, blow hunting horns to call hounds away from the laid trail, block roads (yes they do), are hardly ever arrested or cautioned. What say we introduce a ban on football in reaction to the minority of idiots who cause trouble, block roads, are anti-social and intimidating on public transport, get drunk and disorderly and become an inconvenience to non supporters?
 

SaddlePsych'D

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As I understand it, since the precedent where ethical veganism became an identified minority, a set of beliefs and practices do qualify. Other unchosen characteristics are indeed slightly different but there is a legal protection for chosen and practiced beliefs (you can choose to be a vegan or a Christian or a Druid, Rastafarian etc for example) and belief based practices that are significant to your way of life, such as veganism do have a standing and protection in law. The law is a dynamic thing and in the past, groups of people with specific characteristics and difficulties, such immigrants, were not recognized or protected in law. They are now thankfully.
There will be lines though, in law, about belief based practices. I don't know where exactly those lines are and it will be interesting to see which side of the line this falls on. One can believe anything one likes, it doesn't mean you get to practice it.
 

Fred66

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but the point is they don't cycle, horse race, let their dogs loose on my property. That is the difference. If someone wants to take their dog for a walk then fine. Plenty of roads and pavements and footpaths. They don't have to let it loose (hounds) to run over my land. That is very important to me as when they did this they damaged fencing and if it had been 2 minutes earlier my dog would have escaped from his secure paddock. He would have followed the hounds. The hounds ran into my neighbours sheep. I was left to repair the damage

My friend had his ponies field electric fenced. Wasn't told the hunt would be around. Hounds went through the field, fencing considerably damaged. These are not one off occurrences I'm sure there are many on here could give you similar examples.

Same with my horses or any other animals.
What about people in villages where hounds chase cats. Should they just learn to accept the inconvenience.

The problem is NOT inconvenience. It is a lot more than that. If someone is told do not let your dogs loose on my fields then that surely is pretty clear.

Turning your argument around what right do a small group of people have to cause trouble for the general public? If you are living in your cottage in a village is it not reasonable that your dog, cat or whatever should be able to safely wander in it's own garden.
Country roads are narrow. That means if a line of hunt supporters vehicles are blocking it we cannot get through. Is there any reason not to be considerate to others and not block it in the first place?

Why should the general public have to put up with that so few "special" people can charge around on horses with a pack of dogs running everywhere? Normal horse riders don't usually cause much of a problem.

I think the general problem with the hunt is they don't "share the world" and consider others. Why shouldn't they? are their activities so secret they cannot advertise them? The damage they do is irrelevant to them. Cycling, football etc don't cause that damage.
It sounds like you have been unlucky as going over land that you don’t have permission to be on is extremely rare in our area, similarly if we are following in vehicles we are careful to not park up where we would block the road, nor drive on mowed verges.
We are aware that poor manners on our part will not make for good neighbours. If the hunt is trespassing then report them, the fact that the hunt near you lacks manners doesn’t mean that all should be tarred the same.
Think how people feel that live next to football stadiums where you can have upwards of 40000 people going past your house, some drunk, some looking for a fight, some abusive, some potentially using your garden as a urinal. This would happen 20+ times a year. Should football be banned so that these people can enjoy their house free of fear and inconvenience?

EDIT can I also point out that even if the new government doesn’t manage to ban hunting, they might end some hunts purely by building across the hunting country. As AR does seem determined to urbanise much of rural England. So whilst you might not have a hunt anywhere near you, you could end up with an extra 400 neighbours!! (She is talking about CPO so there might be little choice)
 
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Fred66

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Well some of those activities massively inconvenience other people; those whose towns and neighbourhoods are overrun with football supporters at times, with, at times some unpleasant consequences. People who live in places where there are festivals and all manner of events are inconvenienced: yfc rallies, tractor runs, cycling events etc. Not all of those events share considerately and there are wrong'uns at a great many events. Dog walkers let dogs do all manner of unpleasant, inconsiderate, dangerous and cruel things, as can walkers etc.
A local farm near us now allows off road vehicles to whizz round one of his fields once a month.
So instead of sitting outside on a Sunday relaxing and listening to the birds, you have the constant revving of motorcycle engines for 8+ hours !!
 

Tiddlypom

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Hunting Kind took over and sadly soon obliterated the really rather reasonable pro legal hunting This is Hunting UK after the death of TIHUK’s founder in 2021.

Initially the new chair paid lip service to TIHUK, but soon the more sensible members who might well have carried it forward were silenced, TIHUK was dropped from the title and the loonies took over the asylum.

And here we are now.
 

PurpleSpots

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Well some of those activities massively inconvenience other people; those whose towns and neighbourhoods are overrun with football supporters at times, with, at times some unpleasant consequences. People who live in places where there are festivals and all manner of events are inconvenienced: yfc rallies, tractor runs, cycling events etc. Not all of those events share considerately and there are wrong'uns at a great many events. Dog walkers let dogs do all manner of unpleasant, inconsiderate, dangerous and cruel things, as can walkers etc.

But these events, their locations and likely durations are always advertised in advance so that other people can plan their lives around them.
 

PurpleSpots

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A local farm near us now allows off road vehicles to whizz round one of his fields once a month.
So instead of sitting outside on a Sunday relaxing and listening to the birds, you have the constant revving of motorcycle engines for 8+ hours !!

Once a month, so you can plan around that - hopefully with advance warning, anyway!
 
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