did i get the price right?

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
And yes Rosiie, my boy is the same, and as much as I would like to know how he is bred, it makes no difference to what sort of horse he is, as Oshk proves!

[/ QUOTE ]

thankyou! Well I can have a fair old guess at whats in him, he was sold to me as ISH type, enfysis on type
as I think you can get into deep water advertising something as a bredding it is not. Anyhows, yep, does his job, does it well, and had he had papers I reckon I would have paid twice the price tag, and to me its not worth it.

 

[Skhosu]

But what have papers to do with it? Two have mine have papers and records all the way back, and they are either injury prone or useless! My mutt was the best pony in existance (slightly biased...ahem...) and looked after me, as did the previous one.
Yes, they add a little value, but the no breeding doesn't knock the value down by 4K IMO
Dunno, I see what your trying to get at and hope you see what I'm trying to get at?
It is nice to have records certainly!

 

[KatB]

Oh yeah I agree on the rest of the situation completely! However, horses can still have a dodgy past WITH papers, I know of a horse with ISH papers, it is actually (and through VERY reliable sources) a Holstein that was imported. Its papers got messed up somewhere along the lines. And ok, that was before Passports.

Papers are only important in dressage because of the fashions currently. Papers and breeding will not guarantee a good moving, nice temperament horse that will go to the top. Yes it can go a way in finding out how the horse could potentially turn out, but a good moving horse without papers would do just as good a job potentially in my honest opinion! There is just a fashion for well bred horses, understandable, but not essentail!

However, I agree totally with you on other points re lameness etc.

 

[KatB]

Completely agree, my boy is exactly the same. Sold as a type, but a good enough stamp (I hope) to do the job

 

[0]

i agree that papers don't make a horse and not having them doesn't break one But, they do add value - even rosiie said her horse would prob be double if it had them and the qu was "is the price right" and i'm saying No, because you can get a rc horse with papers for that and they do add value..

Tomorrow if i were offered a lovely horse with no papers and an average horse with them, i'd get the one without
BUT
if i were offered two the same at the same price, one with one without i'd buy the one with.

I think we are sort of agreeing, just coming at it from different sides!!!

 

[KatB]

Yep i think we probably are! I'm just being opinionated!

Sorry didn't mean to sound argumentative, am just very sensitive on the subject, as the "in" question seems to be "hows he bred" and it winds me up no end!!

But COMPLETELY agree with where you're coming from on pricing the pony overall, but papers make no difference to me!

 

[moodymare1987]

i think it helps on the attitude of the horse, some horses have good breeding etc but simply dont have the heart in the job, if you understand?? but some horses papered or not will try their heart out for you. im not sure if i have said this the way i meant it to be said????!! also to original post i think you should put the age that the vet/passport has advised as you will be in hot water if the advert is misleading.

 

[Tia]

A horse who has done nothing and has no papers will be worth significantly less than a horse who has done nothing but does have papers.

A horse who has no papers but has competed very successfully will be worth more than a horse who has not competed successfully regardless of it's papers.

However a horse who has papers AND has competed very successfully will command the highest price........therefore in a lot of instances papers actually DO stand for something and WILL increase the price.

 

[KatB]

Yep i agree thats the case Tia, however unless comparing two very similar horses papers wouldnt come into it for me, but I know this IS just my opinion! I personally would have papers at the bottom of the pile, and the thing I objected to was the original suggestion that a horse without papers is worth next to nothing.

I now realise this wasn't the point being got at fully, but still don't agree with the principle of papered horse=more money, even though I fully accept this IS the case.

 

[0]

yes, i agree, please don't think that i would turn down a good unpapered horse in favour of a crap papered one - i'm not stupid, i assure you!!! what i am saying is - that when i pay top whack for a horse i expect everything!!! paces and attitude are no exception but neither are papers!!!
now the price being asked is quite "top end" for an average 14.2 rc pony so i'm just saying that buyers will want everything!!! i'm not saying it makes it less of a horse but it does make it a cheaper horse!!!
Rosiie said that her horse was half what he would be if he were papered so would she have paid double without them - of course not because that extra money would be for the papers so you won't pay it if your not getting them!!!
Papers add value so you won't pay that extra bit they add, if they ain't coming with them - it's logic!!!

I agree that for example my horse would have had the same successes etc with or without documents because she'd be the same horse but i wouldn't have paid that bit that documents add onto her price if she didn't have them - so, i'm saying to the seller - he doesn't have them so knock the price down - however mainly i think the price needs to be lowered for the other things pointed out!!!

 

[Skhosu]

I would disagree only with you last point. I would price my pony accoridng to ability, age etc. then look at papers, but in PC ponies I don't think papers come into it very much at all.
I have just sold a 14.2 with no papers for a reasonable amount and papers(unless he was connie) would not have made any difference to his price.
For dressage/jumping/eventing breeding does come into it as it is fashionable and to some extent can determine if the horse is up to the job.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
but in PC ponies I don't think papers come into it very much at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep I would completely agree with that comment. I never ever owned a horse in the UK with papers, however the market I am in now is very different over here in Canada.......no papers.....no money.......EXCEPT in the case of this horse of mine that I sold back in July and who went to his new home yesterday......and others who are unique in some other way.

 

[Bossanova]

What age does it say on his passport? Whatever that is, put that- its then up to their vet to suggest otherwisde if they get to a vetting.
The price is probably too high- the problem with testing the water so to speak is that people remember adverts they've seen and when they notice the same pony but cheaper, they wander why and dont phone so you may be shooting yourself in the foot.
On the other hand you may get lucky.....

 

[malibu211211]

Sounds a fab pony

I bought my boy who has intermittent lameness due to a coffin joint injury. His owner wanted £2800 for him and we paid £1750 (which was probably still too much but I had him on loan first so I got attached

)

I have never sold a horse before but should'nt you put about the lameness in the ad?

Would'nt people looking to spend that amount of money be looking for something without health issues?

 

[aran]

I'm not sure on price, however on the ageing thing - unless you have a reason not to trust your vet/ED then they are right. It is easy to age young horses (1-5) as they have baby teeth. A 4 year old will still have baby corner incisors. At 4.5 the corner incisors errupt and they loose their last two milk teeth. At 5 all adult teeth are in wear. 6-9 can be difficult to age with any certainty (unless looking at the wearing edge of the teeth). most horses get the '7 year hook' on the corner incisors and at 10 the 'galvaynes groove appears running down the corner incisor as the horse gets older.
Selling a horse for older than it is is a dodgy thing to do - i'd sort that question out first.
Why was the horse lame - if you don't know the reason and it could be recurrent it is your duty to inform the buyer.

 

[Kelly1982]

Regardless of his age worries and lameness issues i would not pay that for him. I think the price is far too steep IMO. For that price i would expect a completly sound pony with no queries over his age, a fair few winnings on his card and with a better competition record in affiliated comps under his belt.

 

[0]

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of his age worries and lameness issues i would not pay that for him. I think the price is far too steep IMO. For that price i would expect a completly sound pony with no queries over his age, a fair few winnings on his card and with a better competition record in affiliated comps under his belt.

[/ QUOTE ]

100% agree - he seems to be a good rc horse but not an outstanding one that buyers wouldn't be able to find another as good

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Is she still reading our reponses?

I do hope you decide to put the correct age and his lameness issue up.

How would you feel if someone bought him (assuming your attached to him and care about him) and he went lame, they then decided they cannot afford/be bothered to sort it out so they either A) bute him up to the eye balls and compete him anyway, making him worse or B) sell him as meat as hes 'useless now lame' or C) Bute him up again and sell him onto another poor soul.. to which the story might well continue on and on!

To save embarrassment/dishonesty, id put his age of 4 up- wouldnt it be rather awful having drag someone up to see him, and then a vet turn around and say- hes actually only 4!

As ive said, ive been burnt and im taking legal action against the people i bought my pony off. These are an indepedant company who have now decided to stop trading but it makes no difference, i can still sue the person who wrote there name on my receipt.

I wouldnt wish it on anyone, but in your case its alot of money and i truely believe honesty is your best policy and id put it on the ad!

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Ok i too think the price is a bit steep but thats not what im going to say. I'm actually disagreeing with people, if the pony was lame but is now sound i wouldnt mention it unless theres a strong possibility that it will come up again. I mean if i were to sell a horse i woudlnt say 'it was lame 2years ago, had a virus a month ago' etc etc.
Also i would put the age on the passport down, other wise as you said you could get into legal issues

 

[Scarlett]

I bought a blue and white 15 hh 5 yo ISH type gelding earlier this year - sounds very similar to this one, has jumped affiliated, xc, has hunted, real gentlemen who looks after me and I feel I paid more then enough for him at £3800 without tack - had i been told £5950 i wouldnt even have looked... horse prices, especially down here in the SE, just seem to be a bit silly at the moment...

he's turned out to be a real superstar and is coming on brilliantly but even now he's not worth 6k...

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean if i were to sell a horse i woudlnt say 'it was lame 2years ago, had a virus a month ago' etc etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

To a point I agree with you Kayliegh, but I think they never resolved this lameness just rested him and put it down to too much too young so a bit different to an injury sorted and healed. Tough one though, although I think Equibabe will be surprised at the fact a lot of her potentiaL buyers will have read this website, it's far wider read than most people realise!

 

[EllieBeast]

*Phew* i am so glad that im not in the market to buy anything at the mo! i havent bought a horse for 5 years, and my mare pretty much fitted this pony's description when i bought her (however was 15.3hh with no lameness issues). and she was bought for a third of this price with tack and rugs. this shows how the market has changed recently.

 

[xspiralx]

I agree here, but also with Kayleigh.

I think the price IS too high, considering he doesn't seem to have any considerable experience over about 3ft [though obv. as a 5yr old you wouldn't want them too, but sell as a 7yr old and for a BE or BSJA horse I'd want them to be comfortable competing around 3ft6 for a price like that - btw though I don't really know what you've done with him, just notice no pictures over about 3ft] - and also considering the issues you've had.

However - re. soundness I think that is the responsibility of the buyer. If they ASK about soundness, you'd have to be honest and tell them - if they don't, and the vetting comes up clear - well thats their responsibility I think.

Personally though, I think he looks a lovely type, and worth around £3500 at the moment.

 

[JaneMBE]

[ QUOTE ]
However - re. soundness I think that is the responsibility of the buyer. If they ASK about soundness, you'd have to be honest and tell them - if they don't, and the vetting comes up clear - well thats their responsibility I think..

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno about that bit.... it is possible to sue someone for 'not as described or misinformed' I bought a horse from a woman who had previously sold him, then a few months later had horse returned and also a big bill as well as original sale price. Horse had been vetted also.

These days, you must relate any problems with a horse unless you want to be sued.
Also, if a kid had the pony and he went lame due to his previouis and then his new friend had to go, how upsetting for the child?
Speak from experience.. our first pony was ideal for Rachel, tried tested and vetted.
However, turns out he was pony from hell who liked to put his nose to the floor and dump the rider. He had been buted and lunged until knackered before the viewing ......
i did however work on the lil shite and turned him into a nice showy pony, now in a new home and douing well.
I did want to rip the sellers ruddy tonsils out tho!

So, honesty is best....

sorry long answer.....

 

[tinker512]

Can't add anymore to what people have said, but IMHO I think the price is too much...I would put him up for around £5k to get knocked down to £4.5 ....PROVIDING the age and lameness is clear...

 

[Blackhawk]

See, as a buyer I would ask things like

has this horse ever been lame?
and when has it seen a vet and why?

Generally people are open an honest and I make my own mind up as to if it's significant. I'd rather be an informed buyer, but I agree with you that it's not always important!

 

[Bri]

Personally I think your asking to much. Even without the lameness and age issues I've remembered you saying before he hasn't got the scope to go above 3"6 -hence why your selling him.
Yes he's very honest and goes clear a lot, but for me anything that cant go above 3"6 will always be an average rc/pc pony.

Think the age thing is very dubious to - the fact that he's actually only 4, and has done so much in such a short time would worry me. Perhaps I'm just a cynic after my experiences with Sid - I know it's different circumstances but essentially the same principle. He did too much, too young and was put down as a 6 year old.

I know it's not always viable to do whats 'best' for the horse, and money is always a big issue but I agree with someone else, he should just be hacking and enjoying himself for a year or two - not out competing every weekend!

Saying all that, he is a fabulous pony so good luck selling him!

 

[Emma123]

Hmm I agree with a lot that has been said, but you may get lucky and get that sort of money! My pony had done pretty much the same as yours, but dressage was definitly not his strong point! He did xc at 3ft 3 had £35 BSJA winnings and had d/c's British Novice for 05, sold him for £6200 to a mother who would ride him mainly and a daughter who would ride him occasionally! They love him and he's in a home for life

He just does unaffiliated SJ and ODE's at 2ft9-3ft6 and does brill, but considering yours is younger, less experianced (mine would never stop at a fence) and the lameness issues you may only get £4000

Essay sorry

 

[Weezy]

Yes but yours had its DCs, had been jumped under rules - that puts value on the horse!

 

[Emma123]

But her advert say's double clears and placed BN? assuming that it was placed it would have money on its card, and maybe not the 4 BN double clears needed but has some?!