Dilemma: Unhorsey colleague buying daughter a pony...

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MsChops

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I'm a regular user posting under a different account in case said colleague is nosy enough to ever google me...

I have worked with this lady, Jackie, for two years - not directly working with but we sit together and regularly go out as part of a group after work. We get on well usually. Her 13 year old daughter Chloe has been having riding lessons for about 6 months.

A month ago, Jackie announced that Chloe had been asking for a pony and they were thinking of buying her one as a surprise for her birthday... cue my immediate horror as I doubt she'd learnt enough from weekly lessons in 6 months to look after a pony. Plus she depends on her mum to drive her to the stables, and I couldn't see that happening every day... anyway it transpired that Chloe was more sensible than I thought and listened to her instructor who said you have to get one on loan/share before you buy. I don't think she was even ready for that, but that's what happened. Jackie got her a pony who was already at the yard, for Wednesday evenings and all day Saturday and Sunday to ride and look after. This is £20 a week.

This had been going ok although they'd both got into fights with other loaners at the yard - b*tchy 13 year olds being mean to each other and getting their protectively aggressive mothers involved. All very dramatic! But the pony side of thing seemed to be going alright. Much moaning about driving her there on Weds nights but she got the bus at weekends.

Now said pony's owner has put him up for sale. She was keeping him for her own daughter but the girl has lost interest in riding and the woman can't afford to keep him out on loan anymore. Chloe saw the advert on the yard's FB group and came home in tears. Jackie immediately rang up the owner, who offered her first refusal. £1200 including tack. She thinks this is a bargain, which it may well be, but I've politely been trying to say that loaning for 2 days a week for £20 is a lot different to owning a pony full time, what a HUGE commitment it is, how much money and time is involved etc. She just shrugs it off or laughs...

The owner said the pony had been 'given the all clear by a vet'... Jackie is all gung ho to handover the cash but hasn't looked into how much the owner pays for livery, hasn't had him properly vetted, no second opinion from someone knowledgeable, didn't know he'd have a passport... basically she sees it like buying a car! The saving grace is at least Chloe can ride and manage the pony and is used to him - although she'll have grown out of him in a year and what then? Jackie was saying that if they have to pay more than £20 a week (!!!!!!!) then Chloe can do without her weekly lesson as 'now she can ride properly'.

I have politely and carefully (as I still have to sit near her) explained to Jackie what a huge responsibility owning a pony is - and it'll be her who owns him, not a 13 year old, when it comes down to it. I went for the sympathy angle and said how will you/Chloe spot if he's ill when you don't know much about ponies (she freely admits this) and she said that it'd be fine, someone would help. Seems really vague about this. She mentioned that her sister had a horse once but it had to be put down as it had laryngitis, an incurable disease for horses which means they have to be shot upon diagnosis... So she is prepared for something like that happening. Great!?

I don't think I can stop her buying him for Chloe. Her mind is already set and I won't see her till Monday now, and I'm sure the deed will be done by then as she is very gung ho with money, despite not having much. Her and her husband buy new cars, the latest phones, etc on credit regularly and live in a very 'see it, want it, buy it' world. She hasn't thought this through.

Basically (and sorry for the huge post) do you think there is anything I could say which will help the pony in this situation? I'm just hoping someone at their yard keeps an eye on them. What advice can I give short of handing them some of my 'how to own a horse' style books and telling Jackie to read them...! Actually she's very proudly never read a book so that's not even any good. Argh! I sort of wish she'd not told me about all this now as I feel like I should attempt to help, but not sure how given the work situation.

Any advice welcome...
 
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Umm, i don't think you can do much. Maybe buy Chloe a book "how to look after your new pony" as a "congratulations present" from you?!

It might also help to write down your livery/ vet/ wormer/ tack/ farriery costs for Jackie to look at, probably won't succeed in putting her off though ;0)
 
Oh dear...I had hope when you said they were loaning/sharing! That's what I did when I was 6 and it worked out great! My mum is a bit horsey and tacked up for me, my dad really isn't but learnt fast and was a big help.

Hopefully there will be someone there to look after them. There's always someone at my current yard and was always someone at the yard I loaned at. I just hope it's not like a previous yard I went to where people would laugh at you if you didn't know or purposefully tell you wrong!

No advise I'm afraid, but I so so so hope it works out for the pony and young girl!
 
Polotash said:
Umm, i don't think you can do much. Maybe buy Chloe a book "how to look after your new pony" as a "congratulations present" from you?!

It might also help to write down your livery/ vet/ wormer/ tack/ farriery costs for Jackie to look at, probably won't succeed in putting her off though ;0)
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I told her how much I pay a month and she is adament it'll still be £20 because that's what the owner says... good idea on the book! Not that I've ever met her, but could say I had it hanging around my house and thought she might like it.
 
Nah said:
Oh dear...I had hope when you said they were loaning/sharing! That's what I did when I was 6 and it worked out great! My mum is a bit horsey and tacked up for me, my dad really isn't but learnt fast and was a big help.

Hopefully there will be someone there to look after them. There's always someone at my current yard and was always someone at the yard I loaned at. I just hope it's not like a previous yard I went to where people would laugh at you if you didn't know or purposefully tell you wrong!

No advise I'm afraid, but I so so so hope it works out for the pony and young girl!
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If only Jackie and her husband were horsey - they hate all animals sadly :(

It's a shame they've managed to make enemies of all the other teenage girls at the yard and their mums - otherwise they could've helped. Hoping an instructor or someone will keep an eye on the pony though.
 
If the pony is at livery in a decent RS I am sure they will be there to oversee its care, any health problems, advice regarding foot care etc, it probably will continue as it has previously and be fine, Chloe will learn as she goes along as long as the parents are happy to foot the bill.
 
I hate to say it but it's not your dilemma

If Jackie was a close friend it may be different but she isn't

I think all you can do is offer the books then distance yourself a bit as you don't want to have to be the person who sorts out the problems when/if they happen
 
You could give her (and the daughter) the details of this forum as a great source of help.

You can't stop this happening, and you can't control the outcome but you can with a little effort help to improve the liklihood of a good outcome for the pony. Giving the daughter a book is a good idea, giving them as much information as possible and being helpful and non-judgemental would also be good.

Maybe suggest that they get a sharer for the pony to help with costs and do some days of the week, or suggest that the pony goes on working livery at the riding school for the same reasons. Try to be there with help and advice where possible for the sake of the pony, and the child.

You never know, although it sounds a recepie for disaster this could turn out well.
 
MsChops said:
I told her how much I pay a month and she is adament it'll still be £20 because that's what the owner says... good idea on the book! Not that I've ever met her, but could say I had it hanging around my house and thought she might like it.
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At least tell her to get a written contract then that states what is included for the £20. Unless the YO is keeping him on working livery this is going to go up hugely with bills, as we all know!
 
When I saw your title, I thought that they were buying a pony for someone who had hardly any riding experience or stable care experience, but this is about someone buying a pony that their daughter has had on a share for a few months, a pony that they know and the daughter copes well with. I also wouldn't vet a horse that I'd had on share that long, for that price.

They will be fine. I think you've said your piece and now you have to let it go. If they had no experience and were about to put it in their garden or something, that would have been different..

ps. If you continue lecturing them, so to speak, you will become someone to her whose advice is always ignored..
 
Have you used their real names? If so I hope they don't stumble across this thread if they come on here looking for help...
 
MsChops said:
I feel by telling me about it directly and no one else in the office, she's made it something for me to fret about :(
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Fair enough.

In that case be direct with her.

Take her for coffee, and ask her specifically what questions she has asked about livery costs. Has she included insurance, shoeing, feeding etc. on top?

Ask her if she understands the 365 days a year commitment. Early mornings, every evening etc.

Does she have £500 a month to keep this pony (in real terms that is what it will cost as a minimum).

Be blunt, and straightforward.

p.s as an aside, when I got back in to horses in my 20’s (having never owned one) I bought a little mare after 3 months. I had absolutely no experience of keeping horses, no ideas of the costs involved, nor the commitment needed. I was fine. I didn’t kill the horse, although had an extremely steep learning curve. I had a wonderful YO who showed me the ropes, and made some great friends at the livery yard who were also very supportive.
 
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Ultimately I'm afraid it is nothing to do with you. It is really hard because you know the demands - financial and otherwise - that come with owning horses but it really is their business and theirs alone.

If you can, you need to distance yourself a bit from the situation - don't feel responsible for it, if the pony is at a riding school, then there will be other people who will get involved if necessary. If she asks for your specific advice then I would give it, but only if she asks. Offering unsolicited advice is the quickest way to a fall-out and if you work together 5 days a week, you need your work relationship to remain stable.
 
I actually don't see a huge problem with it, tbh. Everybody is a first time horse/pony owner at some point in their life and providing they have professional help, all will be fine. That's what RS/Full livery yards are for, no?
I run a yard and large proportion of my clients are first time owners, not necessarily knowing how to look after them. They often don't have that much time for horses, either - that's what they pay me for, the horses are well fed, looked after and I make sure they are also trained enough to provide their owners with a pleasurable experience :) As long as they pay the bills, everybody is happy.
I can see your concern here, I really do, but how do you REALLY know what Jackie's financial position is? And is it any of your business?
Maybe she wants to talk to you about the pony and its care, but not necessarily about how much money she is spending and where she gets it from?
 
Could be worse. She could be buying the pony and intending to keep it in their 'large' garden, or not much better, in a paddock they have found to rent where it will be all on its own.
 
MsChops said:
If only Jackie and her husband were horsey - they hate all animals sadly :(
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Seems weird that they 'hate' animals but are buying a pony???

Anywho - we all have to start somewhere. I started with non-horsey parents as a kid, and no idea. We weren't on livery either, so no one around to help us out if necessary.

Many years, and many championships later, it all worked out fine, thank you very much.

My mum never got into it, however my dad (who's only previous experience was a share in a racehorse) is now a prolific breeder of horses that win at a royal and national level, and has judged at shows all around Australia, having worked it all out on his own.

I really can't see how this is any of your business, unless it becomes a welfare issue?
 
martlin said:
I actually don't see a huge problem with it, tbh. Everybody is a first time horse/pony owner at some point in their life and providing they have professional help, all will be fine. That's what RS/Full livery yards are for, no?
I run a yard and large proportion of my clients are first time owners, not necessarily knowing how to look after them. They often don't have that much time for horses, either - that's what they pay me for, the horses are well fed, looked after and I make sure they are also trained enough to provide their owners with a pleasurable experience :) As long as they pay the bills, everybody is happy.
I can see your concern here, I really do, but how do you REALLY know what Jackie's financial position is? And is it any of your business?
Maybe she wants to talk to you about the pony and its care, but not necessarily about how much money she is spending and where she gets it from?
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It's a DIY livery yard with a riding school on an attached site. I imagine the yard owner will keep an eye on her, but Jackie's never met her so far. They've had him on share a month, so not that long, and they're bound to meet her soon, and can get help and advice that way hopefully.

She's very open about her financial issues with us all - none of my business at all of course but when she's told us she's been skipping mortgage payments, then buying a pony in the same week, that concerned me. I don't have much money myself but I go without things to afford the horse - this morning, after I said how much my horse costs per month, she said 'pfft, that won't be happening'. I just laughed it off and said fingers crossed you've got a bargain livery, and changed the subject.

Thanks everyone for advice. I think pony book for daughter and leave them to it and try to avoid the topic in work is the best bet! :) - it's all she's talked about today (not the actual buying pony bit, just how much it'll annoy the other livery girls who have been mean to Chloe). Huge lesson in tongue biting commencing!!! :D
 
I sort of wonder if Jackie is a bit of an, ahem, embellisher ;) Not so much in the buying the pony part, more about the goings on at the yard etc. Sometimes, we can get quite an unfavourable impression of somebody's attitude from the flippant way they express themselves...
Only because I seemingly shrug off concerns with a short ''It'll be alright'' doesn't actually mean that I don't spend time worrying/thinking about issues and finding solutions to them, but most people I know wouldn't have a slightest inkling that I have taken something seriously ;)
 
I think the main worry is the financial aspect, in that it sounds like the family don't know what they are letting themselves in for financially. Whilst the set up at present sounds good, if they find the costs of keeping the pony are more than they envisaged the pony will probably get moved to a cheaply rented field where there will be no-one to help them, and the pony may suffer as a result.

Can you suggest that she speak to the yard owner and confirm the livery price? Tell her a made up story of someone who bought a horse and found the livery price was much greater than she had assumed? If she will listen, give her a little breakdown of how much things like hoofcare, worming, jabs etc., will cost, rather than just telling her the total of how much your horse costs to keep.
 
martlin said:
I sort of wonder if Jackie is a bit of an, ahem, embellisher ;) Not so much in the buying the pony part, more about the goings on at the yard etc. Sometimes, we can get quite an unfavourable impression of somebody's attitude from the flippant way they express themselves...
Only because I seemingly shrug off concerns with a short ''It'll be alright'' doesn't actually mean that I don't spend time worrying/thinking about issues and finding solutions to them, but most people I know wouldn't have a slightest inkling that I have taken something seriously ;)
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I hope so but over the years I'm afraid flippant would be the last word I'd think of for her :)
 
500 pcm to keep a pony!!!

I'm sure she will be fine, maybe you could just drop little hints about the cost of rugs/routine vets etc etc and offer to come down and see the pony etc or could you not suggest they keep it at your yard?
 
TGM said:
I think the main worry is the financial aspect, in that it sounds like the family don't know what they are letting themselves in for financially. Whilst the set up at present sounds good, if they find the costs of keeping the pony are more than they envisaged the pony will probably get moved to a cheaply rented field where there will be no-one to help them, and the pony may suffer as a result.

Can you suggest that she speak to the yard owner and confirm the livery price? Tell her a made up story of someone who bought a horse and found the livery price was much greater than she had assumed? If she will listen, give her a little breakdown of how much things like hoofcare, worming, jabs etc., will cost, rather than just telling her the total of how much your horse costs to keep.
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I emailed her a breakdown of costs (she asked for this after not believing me!) Good idea about the made up story - seems like she's handing over the money on Saturday... I said is she going to meet the yard owner/manager (can't work out the situation without bombarding her with questions) before then, and she said no, she doesn't want to involve more 'horsey b*tches'.

I do think they may leave the yard as Jackie's decided all the other girls Chloe's age are b*tches/'horsy chavs' (her words!) but don't think they'd go for or find a field locally to rent - it'd be to another yard if anything. They live in a very urban area. There's their current yard and two others within a 40min drive, so luckily it'd just be one of them.
 
Beans2000 said:
I'm sure she will be fine, maybe you could just drop little hints about the cost of rugs/routine vets etc etc and offer to come down and see the pony etc or could you not suggest they keep it at your yard?
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Teehee, or maybe not, sounds like she's a PITA and seeing her all day at work is quite enough!
 
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