Disappointing attitudes....

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Having been to my first showing shows this year (Have previously spectated, never participated) I have to say i'm a bit disappointed at the attitudes of various judges, spectators, grooms as well as participants.

Of course that isn't to tar every one with the same brush but from the moment I got there all i could see was judges who quite clearly were favoring their 'friends', people getting very heavy handed with their horses (As far as one man hitting their horse in the face with their cane to stop him pulling down) and one class being held up for several minutes whilst a competitor came in the class very late then proceeded to make everyone wait while her mother wipe over her boots - in an in hand class. Both classes I entered I hadn't placed (I didn't expect to, I definitely wasn't dressed for the occasion and was more there for personal experience) however after the judges had placed the top six the rest of the class was left without a placing order and not a word or even a glance from the judge... is that normal for showing because I just found it a little bit rude?

That being said, I was over the moon with how my mare behaved after having a confidence knock, got a nice little ribbon in one class and the stewards were brilliant in guiding me in what i needed to do and not looking their nose down, what with me being a showing noob. It was good experience for me anyway and I learnt a lot with one goal being just that so I can do a few competitions with my youngster inhand next year.
 
Yeah I find that pretty standard, if you're not in the top 6 then you just generally leave the ring or are still put into an order but the judge wont come round any further than the rossettes go. Showing isn't known for being very encouraging IMO ;)
 
No idea I'm afraid about showing. But I'm glad to hear you achieved your goal of giving your horse a nice experience, placings aren't everything.
 
I used to work for a showing breeder and judge. It is very much who you know. If showing is what you want to do don't let it deter you. Get out, have fun and good luck for future shows x
 
I find little local shows the worst for this type of thing.

The experience and expertise of the judges can be a bit random and they can favour who/what they know.

Not placing past 6th is not uncommon and its judges discretion, it's not what I do though.

Concentrate on the positives and if you are planning on doing a bit with your youngster then I strongly suggest you look at some affiliated shows as well
 
It was a little bit discouraging but I think that's only because I prefer dressage and you get feedback no matter where you come in that respect.

How would I go about finding affiliated showing classes? I want to do as much as possible with my young one and without being back in hand seems all we can do.
 
I would say your on your way to be a showing person .
DIsapointed moving through to outraged is Ime their default setting .
 
Goldenstar said:
I would say your on your way to be a showing person .
DIsapointed moving through to outraged is Ime their default setting .
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:lol: plus blaming facey judging :lol:

Sorry OP it just made me chuckle, you will see all sorts of sights out showing, if you go for a nice day our with your horse I found it much more enjoyable, but then I was never a 'proper' showing person I don't think ;). The best way for feedback is to ask the judge at an appropriate moment, most are happy to give pointers if asked for their opinion :).
 
Judges often have a lot to get through in a day, if they stood around giving everyone out of placings a reason why or constructive criticism then the class would take forever!

I help run a local show and we always try and use judges who are not local to the area so don't know anyone, but if we do use a local judge (such as my YO judged the inhand this year) then they remain fair and professional and have never shown favouritism etc.

Hannah97 said:
How would I go about finding affiliated showing classes? I want to do as much as possible with my young one and without being back in hand seems all we can do.
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What type of horse do you have? That makes a big difference on recommendations. you'd also need to ensure you were dressed for the occasion affiliated level ;)
 
Ive never been interested in showing, I want to ride dressage however my youngster is far from being backed so I want to get her out seeing the world.

I was very happy with the way my horse behaved and like i said it was a good experience for us however I was very disappointed with the way some people were being. Not blaming anyone - just didn't think peoples attitudes were right.

Thats not going to stop me going again so I can continue to do things with my horse whilst she cant be ridden and im sure there are probably occasions where the shows run really well, unbiased opinions as well as no abuse towards the horses but that's not what I saw on my most recent experience.
 
Crackerz said:
Judges often have a lot to get through in a day, if they stood around giving everyone out of placings a reason why or constructive criticism then the class would take forever!

I help run a local show and we always try and use judges who are not local to the area so don't know anyone, but if we do use a local judge (such as my YO judged the inhand this year) then they remain fair and professional and have never shown favouritism etc.



What type of horse do you have? That makes a big difference on recommendations. you'd also need to ensure you were dressed for the occasion affiliated level ;)
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That makes sense, I completely agree and that's something I probably hadn't considered.
My youngster is a pure arab, chestnut mare and moves beautifully. Once she grows into her legs im sure she'd do well no matter what she does!
I didnt fancy forking out hundreds for a tweed jacket but if i were doing it a few times I would probably invest in one that actually fits rather then a borrowed one!
 
Have a snoop around charity shops, Facebook groups, Gumtree, Preloved, ebay - all places you could get a decent tweed for cheap. It doesn't have to be expensive at all :)
 
Haven't done any judging for ages but when I did (unaffiliated) I would try to go down the line and say something nice or if there was something I felt could help show a horse off better or at least if a huge class and time short do a "general thank you" to all the unplaced ones as everyone has made a huge effort to be there and loves their own horse. Again depending on the class time etc you could hold back and ask a judge for a feed back but not if running late, others waiting to come into next class etc. Sounds like a really good experience though and great education for a young horse.
 
humblepie said:
Haven't done any judging for ages but when I did (unaffiliated) I would try to go down the line and say something nice or if there was something I felt could help show a horse off better or at least if a huge class and time short do a "general thank you" to all the unplaced ones as everyone has made a huge effort to be there and loves their own horse. Again depending on the class time etc you could hold back and ask a judge for a feed back but not if running late, others waiting to come into next class etc. Sounds like a really good experience though and great education for a young horse.
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Now see I can understand if it was a huge class and/or running on a tight time schedule however in a class of not even ten, the people not placed left straight away with not even a glance from the judge whilst the placed people did a lap.
 
Hannah97 said:
That makes sense, I completely agree and that's something I probably hadn't considered.
My youngster is a pure arab, chestnut mare and moves beautifully. Once she grows into her legs im sure she'd do well no matter what she does!
I didnt fancy forking out hundreds for a tweed jacket but if i were doing it a few times I would probably invest in one that actually fits rather then a borrowed one!
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OMG pure Arab in-hand showing is mental I would stay away from the breed shows for in-hand! Agricultural shows or County level ones will be much more sensible affairs. Look on HorseGossip forum for second hand tweeds, they have a good section for showing stuff, otherwise Ebay/ Preloved etc are a good bet for getting something cheaper :).
 
AlexHyde said:
OMG pure Arab in-hand showing is mental I would stay away from the breed shows for in-hand! Agricultural shows or County level ones will be much more sensible affairs. Look on HorseGossip forum for second hand tweeds, they have a good section for showing stuff, otherwise Ebay/ Preloved etc are a good bet for getting something cheaper :).
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Haha, wasnt expecting that sort of reaction - why is it so bad? or 'mental'?? very curious now with this being my first arab
 
Hannah97 said:
Haha, wasnt expecting that sort of reaction - why is it so bad? or 'mental'?? very curious now with this being my first arab
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They are big fans in the breed shows of having them twirling round with very little control, with outside helpers making as much noise via bags, bottles with stones in, cheering, etc so that the horse 'show themselves off'... They also love their posing, heads up, heads down and stretched out, legs out behind them (kinda welshy sort of stance?), all with the aid of a long whip generally with a tassel on the end, all super odd to watch from an outsider's point of view :o. You could probably google it on youtube to find an example.

As you can probably tell I am not a fan, though more of the unnecessary noise that I could only see upsetting horses not 'making them show off'! I took my part bred to some of the breed shows as the classes weren't being supported, it was certainly an eye opener :eek:!
 
Hannah97 said:
Really?? Ive never been into showing before and this is my first arab - didnt realise theres such a stigma
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It really does tend to only be the breed shows though, your normal ag / county / RC shows is much more toned down!

I had showed my PBA all over before I went to a breed show and it was certainly a shock to the system. There is a culture in the Arab world for breeding horses just to be in-hand horses so they don't tend to see the in-hand classes as much of a stepping stone to the ridden as maybe the other showing societies.

I just didn't want you to go and have the same shock I did :lol:, maybe go and watch some before trying them out, as although I love showing as a youngsters education I would never take one to an Arab in-hand show unless they were almost catatonic with zen like calmness :o, but then I have mine to then go on to ridden careers so calm behaviour is the aim of the game for me.
 
The showing world is completely insane!I haven't a clue how people do it.

i don't understand why they can't mark it similar to dressage? Just fill out a sheet with comments on the various areas marked. I know during the exracer shows they marked us on paces and obedience, manners etc. Why wouldn't something liek this work in showing. No-one storms dressage judge boxes after dressage shows to argue about their comments.

I tried showing a few times but just found it too random, and i never had a clear idea why we did badly or well. I completely understand some horses have more presence, or ride better than attractive one. But sureal a quick sheets with marks out of 10 for turnout, behaviour, paces, presence, conformation etc, wouldn't be hard to do. If dressage can be (somewhat) standardised, why can't showing?
 
The answer is they do at the top end HOYS level classes, I think they have the conformation marks and then the ridden/show marks, though don't quote me as we never did that level!

Showing is fairly simplistic really, you aim to have the animal closest to the breed/type standard, with regards to its conformation, movement and temperament. Not simplistic in real life :lol: mind!
 
A shame you had some disappointing experiences although glad your girl behaved well.

I'm new to showing so I'm probably a bit naive about how it really works, but I've certainly heard about it being so subjective and on the whole quite frustrating. I've had good experiences so far but only of local fun shows where it's been quite a mixed standard but the judges and stewards have been nice.

I would find it helpful to have a test sheet as suggested, as you don't seem to get much if any feedback which is a shame as it doesn't help for future shows. I understand the judge is busy but it's such a massive amount of work it would be nice to get some sort of feed back. I haven't asked directly, as didn't feel it was in order.

I did get great info at our first show but maybe she could tell how numpty we were haha ! We qualified for the sunshine tour (Hickstead) at that one so I was super pleased, and v excited!
 
I completely agree, It wouldn't be difficult for the judge to sit at a table or in a car like dressage and fill out small feedback sheets for individual shows. But then again - ive never judges a show so I really wouldn't know why they don't.
 
paddi22 said:
I tried showing a few times but just found it too random, and i never had a clear idea why we did badly or well. I completely understand some horses have more presence, or ride better than attractive one. But sureal a quick sheets with marks out of 10 for turnout, behaviour, paces, presence, conformation etc, wouldn't be hard to do. If dressage can be (somewhat) standardised, why can't showing?
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^^this is what puts me off as well - I've never had a horse that would be suitable for showing before now but theoretically I could do now. But the whole thing seems so weird! I like knowing where I've gone right or wrong :o
 
AlexHyde said:
The answer is they do at the top end HOYS level classes, I think they have the conformation marks and then the ridden/show marks, though don't quote me as we never did that level!


Showing is fairly simplistic really, you aim to have the animal closest to the breed/type standard, with regards to its conformation, movement and temperament. Not simplistic in real life :lol: mind!
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Yeh you get marks separated out like that :)

Hannah97 said:
I completely agree, It wouldn't be difficult for the judge to sit at a table or in a car like dressage and fill out small feedback sheets for individual shows. But then again - ive never judges a show so I really wouldn't know why they don't.
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That would take absolutely forever! The conformation has to be judged close up too so that would add time coming away from the table lol. Theres some 40-50 ponies in a Welsh HOYS class :D
 
milliepops said:
^^this is what puts me off as well - I've never had a horse that would be suitable for showing before now but theoretically I could do now. But the whole thing seems so weird! I like knowing where I've gone right or wrong :o
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Me too. I took my girl to our first show and we did an in hand class. It was purely to give her ring experience, and I was delighted with how well she behaved. So my goal was achieved. But I'm not sure I've bonded with showing at all. It was a 'coloured' class - local show - so included everything. I've no idea what standards were used to assess us. Which means if I ever wanted to enter competitively I wouldn't know what to do to improve. With dressage we got feedback. Really useful and helpful.

I found everyone really friendly. I was surprised that they did pull the whole class in in order. I expected to be released once the top six were chosen (some of the other classes did do this). But we were all pulled in line, the judge did say thanks but no time to give feedback. Personally I'd have liked to leave rather than line up unplaced as we all felt a bit like lemons.

Still it was a fun day out and good for horses education.
 
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