Arizahn
Well-Known Member
I was run over by my horse. She actually stopped first and looked down at me...
Discussing the 20% weight rule
- Thread starter Big Ben
- Start date
Wagtail
Horse servant
FWIW Tallyho, I agree with your points on whether we should ride horses at all. My sister and I have recently had just such a conversation, what with one of mine having kissing spine and hock arthritis, and one of hers SI issues, and another kissing spines that only came to light when he was broken in. Would they have had issues if we didn't ride them? Probably not. But all three are now retired, aged 10, 6 and 4. Two are ex racers, so you might blame their issues in being broken in and raced too young. But the four year old, a stunning buckskin quarter horse, broken in at four and developed issues almost immediately. My sister is less than ten stone.
So I agree that ANY riding can probably be detrimental to our horses. But normally, we do not see too many problems. Certainly, until very recent years I have had very few veterinary issues at all. But right now, I seem to be surrounded by them.
So I agree that ANY riding can probably be detrimental to our horses. But normally, we do not see too many problems. Certainly, until very recent years I have had very few veterinary issues at all. But right now, I seem to be surrounded by them.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Now you are being silly.
I have never in my life hounded anyone for being fat. That is just a stupid thing to say. I am picking up on the various untruths she has been saying (and only because she tried to imply I was making it up about her riding rather than put Billie right herself as any honest person would do). I have picked up on the fact that she is not considering the right type of horse. In fact I have never even used the word fat to describe her. As I have pointed out many times before, this is not about being overweight, it is about being too heavy for the horses she chooses to ride. I would have no issue whatsoever if any of her mounts were suitable to carry her.
So yes, I have issues with this woman, but none of them are because she is overweight.
Fair enough. I overstepped the mark by saying you were "hounding" her. That IS untrue.
For what she is doing though, do you not think you are being over-judgemental? If not, fine, but I think you are a little bit ott on the subject. That's just my opinion.
We can all see, and so can she, that she is too heavy but that's not what the discussion was about.
It was about the 20% rule. I have tried to contribute to that even though I go by 15% and I cannot find ANY shred of evidence to support my own theory. But, my horses my rules. If I think they should get no more than 15% then that's up to me.
There a girl that rides a nf mare who is only 13.2 at my yard and she is 10st. Who am I to say anything? I have no evidence to back up my beliefs. The pony has never had a lame day since they bought her two years ago. Mine are constantly lame with one thing and another... Is it bad luck or should I put on more weight?
An 14hh Arab mare died last year at age 35. Done GB endurance most of her life until late twenties. Was ridden regularly until July 2012. Retired. Died in December. Rider was 10st. My 15.3 appy x clyde gelding could not keep up with her. I was 9.5 st at the time.
What am I even trying to conclude? I have no idea. Except, rules are there as a guide. What this woman does with her horses are her business, we can discuss til we are blue in the face but if she wants to ride her horses, who's to say she shouldn't?
I guess this argument is between you and bb so I will step aside and let you both carry on. Sorry I even stuck my nose in.
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Arizahn
Well-Known Member
You can talk to me about barefoot horses, Tallyho! I am never going back to shoes, btw. The next horse is being selected based on whether it can be happy barefoot.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Fair enough. I overstepped the mark by saying you were "hounding" her. That IS untrue.
For what she is doing though, do you not think you are being over-judgemental? If not, fine, but I think you are a little bit ott on the subject. That's just my opinion.
We can all see, and so can she, that she is too heavy but that's not what the discussion was about.
It was about the 20% rule. I have tried to contribute to that even though I go by 15% and I cannot find ANY shred of evidence to support my own theory. But, my horses my rules. If I think they should get no more than 15% then that's up to me.
There a girl that rides a nf mare who is only 13.2 at my yard and she is 10st. Who am I to say anything? I have no evidence to back up my beliefs. The pony has never had a lame day since they bought her two years ago. Mine are constantly lame with one thing and another... Is it bad luck or should I put on more weight?
An 14hh Arab mare died last year at age 35. Done GB endurance most of her life until late twenties. Was ridden regularly until July 2012. Retired. Died in December. Rider was 10st. My 15.3 appy x clyde gelding could not keep up with her. I was 9.5 st at the time.
What am I even trying to conclude? I have no idea. Except, rules are there as a guide. What this woman does with her horses are her business, we can discuss til we are blue in the face but if she wants to ride her horses, who's to say she shouldn't?
I guess this argument is between you and bb so I will step aside and let you both carry on. Sorry I even stuck my nose in.
I can be like a dog with a bone and enjoy a good argument. As I say, my issues were more with the porkie pies than anything else, though I would have let that lie had she not tried to imply that I was making it all up. It is indeed up to her what she rides and I have told her that. But trying to get everyone to agree with her just ain't going to happen. I don't think she feels hounded either, she keeps coming back at me and I am just arguing the facts. If you look carefully at my posts, nothing has been personal, it has been arguing things such as whether a horse's back is too long, whether she is or isn't actually riding, whether 30% is too much for a horse to carry (I calculated her weight to be 33% of Cody's), blar blar blar...I think she enjoys the argument as much as anyone.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Well, one has to check what one stepped on!
Me neither arizahn! I used to look at horses and say if they were pretty or not... Nowadays, it's if they have pretty decent feet or not
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
Ugh. Sorry, but that last sentence "...I think she enjoys the argument as much as anyone..." is rather creepy. I don't like that turn of phrase at all. Very off.
And I will not debate that with you.
And I will not debate that with you.
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
Lol, Tallyho, she had stopped dead, once she saw where I was she took off again!
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
I find myself staring at horses' feet a lot, tbh...
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
I can be like a dog with a bone and enjoy a good argument. As I say, my issues were more with the porkie pies than anything else, though I would have let that lie had she not tried to imply that I was making it all up. It is indeed up to her what she rides and I have told her that. But trying to get everyone to agree with her just ain't going to happen. I don't think she feels hounded either, she keeps coming back at me and I am just arguing the facts. If you look carefully at my posts, nothing has been personal, it has been arguing things such as whether a horse's back is too long, whether she is or isn't actually riding, whether 30% is too much for a horse to carry (I calculated her weight to be 33% of Cody's), blar blar blar...I think she enjoys the argument as much as anyone.
She could well do, but I sensed she was close to tears in some posts
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Apparently quite a lot of horses do the Tevis Cup barefoot... It's the in thing if you are an endurance rider
Wagtail
Horse servant
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
What is the Tevis Cup anyway?
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
It's a creepy turn of phrase. If you feel this means that you yourself are appearing to be creepy, then avoid using the phrase. Simple enough!
Wagtail
Horse servant
She could well do, but I sensed she was close to tears in some posts
Horses don't cry, do they?
I really don't think BB gives a fig what I think of her. If she did care, then she would either not ride horses that were too small for her and post up pictures of it, or she would ride them but not tell people about it that she knew may disapprove.
I am not an uncaring person, I have just learned that some people are actually hard as nails and extremely self centred. It was a shock to me when I started to realise this. Anyone that can take a malnourished, undermuscled horse like Cody and put three times the amount of weight on him than he could comfortably and safely carry, does not come over as a particularly caring person to me.
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
Honestly, where did I insult you? Where did I call you a "silly cabbage head" or whatever?
I just don't like that turn of phrase. It is often used by abusive personalities. Ergo, it has "creepy" undertones.
I just don't like that turn of phrase. It is often used by abusive personalities. Ergo, it has "creepy" undertones.
Wagtail
Horse servant
There are people in this life that enjoy a good argument. I do, so long as it is debating the facts, and it does not get into personal insults. I also believe that BB enjoys having a good debate. Argument/debate - the word is pretty interchangable. You think that is creepy?
Definition of creepy: causing fear or unease.
I apologise if I have made you fearful or uneasy.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
Nope, not you, just that one particular turn of phrase. The one I quoted. Stop trying to read into it, it's a creepy phrase used by abusive types. Clearly you had no idea of this. Now you do.
Don't worry. You don't make me fearful or uneasy. I just refuse to sit on my hands re that phrase.
So...what is the Tevis Cup?
Don't worry. You don't make me fearful or uneasy. I just refuse to sit on my hands re that phrase.
So...what is the Tevis Cup?
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
Technically, whilst one needs to have an argument when debating, the two precise words are not equal in themselves.
EG: "...I think she enjoys the argument as much as anyone..." versus "...I believe BB enjoys a good debate..."
The second statement is far less loaded and carries no potential for negative inferences, or creepy undertones. Whereas the first is all too often utilised by abusive types to belittle their victim's claims in discussions with others who may intervene. Hende it is not a reliable turn of phrase, as it has come to carry an inherent level of potential guilt and/or complicity.
EG: "...I think she enjoys the argument as much as anyone..." versus "...I believe BB enjoys a good debate..."
The second statement is far less loaded and carries no potential for negative inferences, or creepy undertones. Whereas the first is all too often utilised by abusive types to belittle their victim's claims in discussions with others who may intervene. Hende it is not a reliable turn of phrase, as it has come to carry an inherent level of potential guilt and/or complicity.
Arizahn
Well-Known Member
Sorry. Not targeting you Wagtail. I just love language!
Wagtail
Horse servant
I think that may be a personal thing to you and I can well understand your reaction if it has been or you have had experience of it. Often negative experiences like that can cause a very emotive response from people who have been sensitised to it. I am sure there will be one or two that I myself dislike for similar reasons, though I can't think off the top of my head right now. I meant argument as in a forum debate. Such as 'Let me put a new argument to you.'
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
Yes I enjoy a good debate, but not personal attacks, no one likes them.
No I am not a liar
Yes I am fat, and yes I am losing weight, thanks for asking.
No I shouldn't of ridden Cody, on that one my inner self was telling me one thing, people on the ground something else.
Yes I am going to ride Ben, yes it will be walking, and then trotting, and we will both need to get fitter going forward.
I'm sorry that you feel that my stories differ, Ben's height
Sold to me as 17hh, I stick him at 16.2hh, where I think he should be measured, however that high headset makes it difficult. The lady who measured him at 17hh I trust, she shows, she probably measures more horses than I have ever done, hell her stick is probably a proper one rather than my home made affair. It doesn't matter to me what the measure says, I see him every day in real life, he is a big solid boy.
Riding, not very often on Ben, 3 or 4 rides at home, and a couple of short lessons last year, then he has had trainer time and a friend riding him. Yes I said I was going to lose weight to ride him, and I have, so I'm going to ride him, seems to me a non issue.
No I am not a liar
Yes I am fat, and yes I am losing weight, thanks for asking.
No I shouldn't of ridden Cody, on that one my inner self was telling me one thing, people on the ground something else.
Yes I am going to ride Ben, yes it will be walking, and then trotting, and we will both need to get fitter going forward.
I'm sorry that you feel that my stories differ, Ben's height
Sold to me as 17hh, I stick him at 16.2hh, where I think he should be measured, however that high headset makes it difficult. The lady who measured him at 17hh I trust, she shows, she probably measures more horses than I have ever done, hell her stick is probably a proper one rather than my home made affair. It doesn't matter to me what the measure says, I see him every day in real life, he is a big solid boy.
Riding, not very often on Ben, 3 or 4 rides at home, and a couple of short lessons last year, then he has had trainer time and a friend riding him. Yes I said I was going to lose weight to ride him, and I have, so I'm going to ride him, seems to me a non issue.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
It's this! It looks like flippin' madness to me but probably the ultimate endurance test. Then again, I think show jumping is madness too... Me, I like to ponce around and do hunter trials every so often just to exercise my adrenal glands
http://www.teviscup.org/
Cortez
Tough but Fair
This would be the same culture that thinks it's OK to sore and chain Tennessee Walking horses legs, nick and set Saddlebreds' tails, use "jawbreaker" bits, crop dog's ears, de-claw cats and cut dog's vocal chords too then, would it? Just because a majority of people near you think something is OK doesn't necessarily mean that it is so.
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
Sorry, no ear trimming allowed near me, couldn't even get dew claws taken off at neutering, if not done as puppies then they can't be done. There are no walking horses near us, so can't say, and as for 'jaw breaker bits' then I would have to see what you mean by them, if you mean Cathedral style bits, well i guess you would have to understand how they are used to get that one.
Now this side of the Atlantic they would be asking why I would listen to people who believe in Rolkur, spike their jumpers, keep horses confined to 12 x 12 stables on concrete, most of the day. Who use up race horses by running them over fences until they fall and break their necks. Who ride their horses on the road, in traffic!
Again different views on life.
Now this side of the Atlantic they would be asking why I would listen to people who believe in Rolkur, spike their jumpers, keep horses confined to 12 x 12 stables on concrete, most of the day. Who use up race horses by running them over fences until they fall and break their necks. Who ride their horses on the road, in traffic!
Again different views on life.
Mongoose11
Well-Known Member
Find one person here who belives in Rolkur? No? I didnt think so. None of this extraneous information really matters one jot.
BB I hope to goodness you dont plan on riding Cody again, not before you have lost 100 pounds. Ben, it seems, is fair game and at least he is a more sensible choice.
I don't think anybody of 300 pound should be riding, I really don't. I think it is inappropriate.
If you have decided you will continue to ride then fine, you are up front about it. Not that you have to be, you owe us nothing remember. Doesn't change what I think, some of your 'fluffy' friends look ridiculous on their horses, few of the animals can be seen standing square and I don't think that is a coincidence at all.
Sigh.
Yours,
Fellow Fattie
BB I hope to goodness you dont plan on riding Cody again, not before you have lost 100 pounds. Ben, it seems, is fair game and at least he is a more sensible choice.
I don't think anybody of 300 pound should be riding, I really don't. I think it is inappropriate.
If you have decided you will continue to ride then fine, you are up front about it. Not that you have to be, you owe us nothing remember. Doesn't change what I think, some of your 'fluffy' friends look ridiculous on their horses, few of the animals can be seen standing square and I don't think that is a coincidence at all.
Sigh.
Yours,
Fellow Fattie
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Big Ben
Well-Known Member
Good job I'm not that weight (anymore) then.
I have said more than once that riding Cody was a mistake, so no, that is not a good idea.
Good news though, I have been working on Bens trailer loading issues all week, and I think that it has done me a world of good. I found myself springing off of the couch instead of fighting my way out of it, Step obviously works.....and Ben is loading like a champion.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Hoorah! Good news! Hope you have an enjoyable session with him
ArabianGem78
Well-Known Member
The Tevis Cup? Top of my bucket list. One day......!