Discussing the 20% weight rule

[Wagtail]

This is the picture on which i commented Ben has a long back. Considering he is bent to the inside and has his inner hind forward, that would SHORTEN the appearance of his back. Yep, he still has a long back.

Nothing wrong with that, my mare also has a long back. I think Ben is lovely, but his back does not look particularly strong.

 

[ArabianGem78]

Oh, I am staying well away from that debate!

Why?! It's one of my favourites!!

 

[Arizahn]

Dodgy knee here too! Actually all my limbs are dodgy. I fall over a fair bit. I enjoyed our snow as it was soft to land in. All gone now though. Back to mucky bog up to my knees instead...hard going, but it doubles as physio whilst I wait on my doctor remembering to send me in for treatment.

 

[Big Ben]

But stood up, no rider, I just don't see long back

Oh and I'm fed up with that pic of me and Ben, have another one

 

[Big Ben]

Dodgy knee here too! Actually all my limbs are dodgy. I fall over a fair bit. I enjoyed our snow as it was soft to land in. All gone now though. Back to mucky bog up to my knees instead...hard going, but it doubles as physio whilst I wait on my doctor remembering to send me in for treatment.

Snow is better than mud for sure, and the stuff we have here doesn't even stick when you keep falling in it

 

[Wagtail]

But stood up, no rider, I just don't see long back

Oh and I'm fed up with that pic of me and Ben, have another one

He has a lovely sloping shoulder and neck but yes, I think his back is long, he has sickle hocks and is slightly back at the knee.

 

[Arizahn]

See, from that photo, I can't see where Ben's withers are, so am not sure of back length myself. I would rather see one of him untacked and standing side on to the camera for that.

@Arabian...nah, I'm happy here on the edges where it's safe! Toasting marshmallows...

 

[Mongoose11]

BB, how much do you weigh in those photos if you don't mind? I am just trying to do some comparisons....

He is very beautiful!

 

[Arizahn]

Narg...I typed too slowly!

Ben is very nice, btw. How old is he and what breed/type?

 

[Big Ben]

Sadly most people give more credence to the people who say what they want to hear If Wagtails calculations of your weight are correct,

Which calculation was that?

 

[YorksG]

Which calculation was that?

The one that puts you at approximately 21 stone.

 

[Big Ben]

BB, how much do you weigh in those photos if you don't mind? I am just trying to do some comparisons....

That was last year and at that time I was probably around 290 pounds

Narg...I typed too slowly!

Ben is very nice, btw. How old is he and what breed/type?

Ben is 10 years old, he is a wonderful cross of Perch/tb and Saddlebred. I have just heard that he has a half sister, who is in foal to a Friesian, that will be an interesting foal for sure!

 

[Arizahn]

Just saw on other thread he is 17hh and aged 10. I do actually think that leaving him that long to break in is probably better, given his size.

 

[Arizahn]

The hocks are from the saddlebred side then? Isn't that standard for saddlebreds? Or am I confused?

 

[Wagtail]

Just saw on other thread he is 17hh and aged 10. I do actually think that leaving him that long to break in is probably better, given his size.

He changes in height between 17 hh and then 16.2 hh just like Cody was 16hh and then 15 hh. And BB IS riding, then she isn't and now we know she is.

 

[Big Ben]

The one that puts you at approximately 21 stone.

Well it's closer than the 23 stone she was spouting on another thread, but still not accurate.

I reserve the right to keep my actual current weight between my doctor and myself, because we are trying to get away from the whole 'weight issue' New Doctor, new ideas, far more concerned with health and fitness of body and mind than simple scale measurements. So I'm trying, but it is hard, really didn't help when the Doc, who is an Irish immigrant, offered to give me the address of the site that he orders his Cadbury's Dairy Milk from

 

[Arizahn]

My husband has a bad habit.

He waits until I have weighed myself, then he gets on the scales and always manages to be half a stone lighter than I am. Despite stuffing his face with whatever he wants and having a sedentary/desk job.

Hmphh!

 

[CobsGalore]

Well it's closer than the 23 stone she was spouting on another thread, but still not accurate.

I reserve the right to keep my actual current weight between my doctor and myself, because we are trying to get away from the whole 'weight issue' New Doctor, new ideas, far more concerned with health and fitness of body and mind than simple scale measurements. So I'm trying, but it is hard, really didn't help when the Doc, who is an Irish immigrant, offered to give me the address of the site that he orders his Cadbury's Dairy Milk from

I'm sorry BB but I have found this thread rather fustrating to read. You want people to discuss the different mind sets when it comes to weight, and for it not to turn into a (your words) 'fat bashing' thread, however you seem happy to post pictures of yourself, when apparently this thread isn't about you, riding horses who are far too small for you.

It seems that you have already made up you mind as to whether you are going to ride Ben or not, despite the number of people on here who feel you are still too heavy for him. It's up to you whether you want to ride him or not, he is your horse, but why post on here if you're not going to take on board anyone else's opinion?

 

[YorksG]

I'm sorry BB but I have found this thread rather fustrating to read. You want people to discuss the different mind sets when it comes to weight, and for it not to turn into a (your words) 'fat bashing' thread, however you seem happy to post pictures of yourself, when apparently this thread isn't about you, riding horses who are far too small for you.

It seems that you have already made up you mind as to whether you are going to ride Ben or not, despite the number of people on here who feel you are still too heavy for him. It's up to you whether you want to ride him or not, he is your horse, but why post on here if you're not going to take on board anyone else's opinion?

It appears that BB thinks that we should be amenable to change our ideas of what weight it is acceptable for horses to carry, and will argue the case, as she is entitled to. What she is not able to do, is convince the majority of people on this site, that horses should carry more than 20% of their own weight, but she appears incapable of understanding that this is the case.

 

[shadowboy]

I usually hate humanising but Fed up of this thread if BB wants to ride Ben he needs to become fit first, he needs sending away and fittening getting his back stronger. Imagine if you weighed 250 lbs and in your current state of unfitness were told to walk around without training with 75lbs in a rucksack on your back for even half an hour if you would cope... Don't expect an unfit horse to do the same. It doesn't matter if your fat or not it's a big weight for an unfit horse, and not a light weight for a fit one either! I can't decide if you were hoping this thread would ease your conscience or something?

 

[devonlass]

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/i-need-help-dont-know-what-153267/

You are too big for all the horses in that link IMO,and I am no 'thinks horses can only carry 8 stone waifs' type of person,far from it.

All those people commenting are either large themselves so obviously have to defend the larger rider,don't want to be rude,or just blind.Maybe a bit of all three who knows but not many (if any but I didn't read it all) are being honest with you.

Being a weight obsessed person for most of my life (many of us have current or previous weight issues,we just don't try as hard as you to make it acceptable) i am pretty good at judging weight by eye and if you're a pound under 19 stone I'll eat my hat.I'm pretty sure you're actually nearer to 20+ stone,but trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Do you think you should be riding at all?? Surely there has to be a point where it shouldn't be about 'do I need a weight carrier',but more 'should i be riding at this weight',personally I think you're at,if not way beyond that point.

I wouldn't dream of being so blunt about such a sensitive subject usually,but I'm pretty convinced that you only come on here with these threads as a bit of a wind up and to amuse yourself anyway,so not going to waste my efforts being polite.

If you genuinely think you are a suitable weight to ride any of those horses comfortably,or indeed any horse comfortably then carry on,but please stop making desperate attempts to justify it.

 

[Littlelegs]

Your current weight is indeed between yourself & your doctor bb, & of course health & fitness are more important than what the scales say. But, the second you decide to get on a horse, your actual weight on a set of scales becomes important. I'm sure it isn't any of our business what you weigh or how healthy or not you are. But if you insist on riding at what is clearly too large a weight, then don't be suprised if people don't agree with your choice.

 

[Big Ben]

I don't expect anyone to agree, do you not think I knew that when I came here. The pictures, well you guys chose to come and get them from a place where they caused no upset.

This thread became personal because you guys made it so, or certain members did.

I had kind of drifted away from here, came back because this thread got revived, and another one was started.

I don't know if it worth my time and effort being here, the culture of there and here is just to far apart.

You think I'm to fat to ride anything, without knowing my current weight or Bens. You think that you are all in the right with your views and think I am cruel or uncaring, then so be it, there is not a thing I can do to change it.

You maybe surprised how many PM's of support I have had, from people who are to scared to publicly say that for what I want to do with the boy now then it's OK.

 

[WelshD]

Forget the percentages what happened to common bloody sense?

Who says that 20% is ok but 23% isn't for example? If things have to be analysed down to the last percentage point have we maybe lost sight of the situation?

 

[Littlelegs]

You're very much mistaken if you believe I think you are too fat to ride anything. I think you are too heavy to ride anything, there is a huge difference. Don't try & make it about fat bashing, its not. As for pms from people too scared to say what they think on the thread, they obviously don't have much courage in their convictions if they are scared to post it publicly. And yes, I do think you're cruel, & I find it impossible to sympathise with someone that puts their own selfish need to ride above the animals interests. The most important opinion though is that of the horse, & seen as horses can't speak, I think its the duty of anyone with any decency to stay well within their limits.

 

[devonlass]

I don't know if it worth my time and effort being here, the culture of there and here is just to far apart.

You think I'm to fat to ride anything, without knowing my current weight or Bens. You think that you are all in the right with your views and think I am cruel or uncaring, then so be it, there is not a thing I can do to change it.

You maybe surprised how many PM's of support I have had, from people who are to scared to publicly say that for what I want to do with the boy now then it's OK.

The culture may well be worlds apart,but that doesn't mean you should disregard what it doesn't suit you to hear.Common sense and consideration for your animal should be universal.

I think you're too heavy to be riding in any serious way and certainly on any of those horses yes.
Why don't you take a long look at them yourself,forget what others have said take an honest and brutal look at your appearance,position,balance and your horses build and confo and then decide if you are 100% happy that you are not a burden to him and that he is not limited or uncomfortable in any way then fine carry on and stop posting asking others for their opinion as you won't need it will you.

If however you have doubts and deep down believe neither of you are totally comfortable of happy with your present weight,then stop the riding until you are confident it's no longer an issue.

BTW Ben's weight really shouldn't be your main consideration,even the 20% rule is more of a guideline in the absence of a proven method or way of determining appropriate rider weight.
My 14.1hh who is a very good doer and terrible to manage weight wise was almost 500kg at one point,does that mean he should have been carrying heavier riders than what he does now at 420kg?? Of course not,weight can flucutate for many reasons,build and suitable conformation does not.

People scared on HHO,whatever next!!

I'm not quite sure what to make of the messages of support except to say that perhaps they are heavier riders themselves,which makes it irrelevant TBH as people who are in the same position will nearly always sympathise or defend.
If they truly have the courage of their convictions and can make a valid point then I am unsure why they wouldn't just post on here??

Forget the percentages what happened to common bloody sense?

Who says that 20% is ok but 23% isn't for example? If things have to be analysed down to the last percentage point have we maybe lost sight of the situation?

Totally agree but sadly common sense doesn't seem to be so common anymore

ETA: just to say in regard littlelegs post which I have just noticed,well put and pretty much what I was trying to get across but with far less waffle lol

 

[Big Ben]

The culture may well be worlds apart,but that doesn't mean you should disregard what it doesn't suit you to hear.Common sense and consideration for your animal should be universal.
l

*shakes head*

You really don't get it do you?

The support and opinion that Ben is fine for me is as near 100% for in the US as it is against here, so there is no universal thought on it.

 

[AlexS]

I just joined so I can respond here. I've read this board for a good while, but am active enough on other horse boards, so didn't need to participate here, I just come to read the things that were interesting to me. I actually thought I was registered, but the forgotten password button didn't know my email. So anyway, I am here now.

I am a Brit who has lived in the US for over a decade now. I think there's a reason for the differences between the UK and US boards. People tend to be larger over here, and we have a good number of male cowboy riders, so the weight issue, isn't as unusual as it is in England. Many times, I think there are cowboys who look lighter because they are 6'+ riding similar sized horses, when really the horse is carrying the same weight. Not saying that's right or wrong - just making the point in general.

It's up to BB whether or not she discloses her weight, honestly in her position I wouldn't, if I were her.
But there's some pretty big differences in numbers that are being banded around, the difference is about 4 stone, which actually is half of me. I deem half of my body weight to be quite a big difference.


Ben's weight and frame are also being guessed from a few photos. In some photos he looks smaller to me, in others he looks pretty broad. It's hard to know.

BB, I am one of the ones on the other boards who said that I think you are ok for Ben. I do think that he is the smallest horse that you consider though, and he is at his max weight capacity. But that's guess work, not knowing the figures and exact sizes of both you and Ben. Honesty, I am basing that off my lowest guessed weight for you, and the highest guessed weight for Ben.

Now Cody, honestly I think you are too large for, by quite a long way. It's your horse, so it's up to you, but if it were me in your shoes, I wouldn't be riding him. I really don't think it's the right choice to ride him, he's only a little QH, and a bit of a scrawny one at that.

If I were you, I'd be looking at the bigger draft crosses.

 

[Alyth]

Surely each case is different? Sometimes the height/weight ratio is not accurate...a tall thin person needs a different type of horse to a short/broad/heavy person? And the same goes for horses....it's not the quantity of bone but the quality of bone that matters....a draft horse (for example) has large bone with large 'air spaces - vacuoles' for example, where an Arabian has a small diameter of bone with tiny vacuoles (like elephant ear sponges - have you seen 'elephant ear' sponges'? They are almost indestructible!) so Arabian bone is actually stronger than draft bone even though it is half the size!! Another consideration is the work required....fast? slow? long distances? short distances? So in my case, a halfway heavy rider on a small pony of pure Arabian blood, doing slow work over moderate distances is, imo, fine!!! I am not asking her to gallop 3 miles over 3' fences!!!! And I am knowledgeable enough to judge what she can manage and what she can't!!! And to get off and walk when she has had enough.....so I feel that we cannot be judgemental and offer rules....or even guidelines!! All we can do is encourage people to watch for signs and abide by principles....

 

[touchstone]

The density of bone is a factor, but a bigger factor in my opinion is the bearing surface of the saddle. The weight of the rider is carried by the panels of the saddle and so the pressure per square inch also increases with the riders weight increasing the risk of damage.

I think if I were having such issues with my weight I'd be long lining daily - good for the horse and myself, before seriously getting into riding. Riding would be my reward for the weight loss.