Disgraceful - Surely this horse is far too young?

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Jsye

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I've just come across this video on youtube ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvFbzMP33Vg

Am I one of the few who thinks this is totally disgusting to be riding a barely 3 year old horse like this?? IMO it's being pushed too far, too fast and too young.

I'm betting this horse will break down by age 5/6. Poor thing - bet it doesn't even know what it's like to be a baby horse and play.

Ugh.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't see your point?

Many horses are broken and ridden at 3 years old. He's not being overly pushed to make those movements, he's simply naturally expressive.

He's accepting the bit and is carrying himself nicely.

It's not like he's doing a dressage test, he's at a stallion show due to him being a licensed stallion
 
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JennyConnor said:
I'm sorry, but I don't see your point?

Many horses are broken and ridden at 3 years old. He's not being overly pushed to make those movements, he's simply naturally expressive.

He's accepting the bit and is carrying himself nicely.

It's not like he's doing a dressage test, he's at a stallion show due to him being a licensed stallion
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This.

I don't like to see anything broken at 3 really, however this is a breath of fresh air in comparison.
 
Well it's not been bred to play .
It's been bred into a big money business.
But All it's doing is walk trotting and cantering .
And I don't like the rider at all .
It's not what I would want for one of mine but it's the reality for many of these uber super horses .
He's got very special breeding so he'll probably be aimed at being a Grand Prix horse so they will be thinking long term with him .
He'll be luckier than many very young TB's.
 
Each to their own but imo it's too young to be doing that level of 'schooling' especially since it probably isn't 3 years old yet
 
To me it looks like a big gangly baby with no strength or balance to cope with its natural extravagant movement yet. The rider looks to be providing most of the balance through their seat and contact to give this horse every chance of developing the muscles to be able to balance itself and cope with the movement.

Plus it is a show so horse could be more tense/uptight and could also be first outing.

I don't think it is being pushed, i think it is being ridden to help cope with his natural movement and is naturally uphill into the contact. Plus i dont see anything more than natural paces - trot and canter - no collection etc. just basic paces and in the medium trot it was running so i doubt it has been worked in more than the basic working walk trot canter.
 
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Personally I don't like young horse endurance championships, 120km (FEI 2*) by age 6. Imagine the milage to get to this point in competition & training. Not conducive to longevity but they push them early to sell them on. No wonder report recently commented on their short international careers in modern endurance compared to years ago. Give the joints time to mature. Personally I didn't back mine until 4, & don not intend to put her in a competative class until she is 7. Slow, steady conditioning.
 
Goldenstar said:
He look quite hot , ( that family are ) I think letting L and L in that situation might be rather to exciting.
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Totilas offspring are quite renowned for being a bit fiery.

Yes, he's still young and in a 'GP' style of frame. But ride how you mean to go on. He also looks tense through his neck which won't be helping the look, but I'd stay he behaved impeccably for a 3yo stallion at such a big event!
 
it is difficult to say personally i like mine to be brought on slowly but i am not producing for big bucks! this level of horse is often produced to this standard as they have a job to do. I have seen a lot worse! although i would not want it for my own unfortunatly this is where top level comp horses are with age classes at BSJA and BE horses are produced to a standard that they have to meet.
 
JennyConnor said:
Totilas offspring are quite renowned for being a bit fiery.

Yes, he's still young and in a 'GP' style of frame. But ride how you mean to go on. He also looks tense through his neck which won't be helping the look, but I'd stay he behaved impeccably for a 3yo stallion at such a big event!
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Edit: He'll also have to learn to cope at such big events, so the earlier he sees them, the better.
 
The very skilled producers can produce to that level with a lot less work than you might think .
They are great riders and the horses are extraordinary talented .
 
It won't have taken long to get him going like this. Warm bloods are born uphill and this way of going is very natural for them. The only thing wrong IMO is sitting to the trot, I wouldn't do this on such a young horse?
 
While not what I'd do with a youngster,I don't have a youngster that moves or is bred like that! It doesn't look like weeks of work to get him to that stage, the canter is very 'big' and all a little unbalanced (not a criticism, it's to be expected with a green horse starting off).

From the title I was expecting to see a yearling/two year old being ridden into the ground.
 
Personally I have no problem with whats being shown - agreed its very expressive and looks a little hot and quite green, but the schooling looks pretty basic, walk, trot and canter which is what you'd expect for a horse that age.

He is in a strong contact, but who's to say he's ridden like that all the time? Taking a baby (stallion, no less) out in early days, they often travel more forward and into the bridle as they are motoring around and looking at everything. He seems to be happy and forward enough, but he doesn't look an easy ride. He seems very much like his dad, actually.

It's perfectly possible that the horse has been brought on slowly with lots of rests and not a lot of work at home, and will continue to do so, I certainly wouldn't conclude that he's on the way to an early breakdown? ETA - given how green he looks, I'd find it difficult to argue that he's had too much work?

WRT the sitting trot, there was a little, but most was rising I thought, and sometimes its necessary to sit and provide balance through the seat, when they are green. As long as it's not overdone, I wouldn't say its something that shouldn't be done at all.
 
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I think it's far too young - it's actually still a two year old, even if by 'year of birth' it's three. Should've been left another year IMO. No wonder so many break down so young. I see nothing wrong with LIGHT riding of a three year old (that has actually TURNED three), but work has gone into this still two year old.
 
Jsye said:
Well when you compare the 'stallion parade' video to his every day movement in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22laV6--rcU - it sure looks like a lot of work has gone into him. The horse was born in May so it's not even 3 yet.
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Well yes, that video is of him relaxed in a well known home environment working long and low. I'd love to see any young dressage stallion at a parade in front of hundreds of people look relaxed.

My WB gelding works quietly at home, but soon gets a higher carriage, along with bigger more expressive paces at a show.
 
Another example of rushed for money over the welfare of the colt not uncommon and sadly over spills into private homes who then think this is ok and do it
 
I suppose if the horse wasn't a 2 year old it wouldn't be so horrific to me.

It makes me wonder how many people on here would jump down someones throat if they posted a video/pictures of them riding their 2 year old - I've seen it before and I know a LOT of people on here would 'react'.

None of my horses will ever be worked like that so early in their life.
 
Just because he is a fabulous colt doesnt make it any different to the fat guys on dragon driving on baby cobs it is just as appalling but it is deemed ok because it is a producer of top horses doing it He is a fat guy on a young warmblood a combined breed known to be slow maturing and bred with disasterous conformation/mechanical faults
 
windand rain said:
Just because he is a fabulous colt doesnt make it any different to the fat guys on dragon driving on baby cobs it is just as appalling but it is deemed ok because it is a producer of top horses doing it He is a fat guy on a young warmblood a combined breed known to be slow maturing and bred with disasterous conformation/mechanical faults
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A horse with that extravagant movement and natural expression and that "hottness" is a completely different ball game to a cob off dragon driving.

As i said above, he is a big, weak gangly baby with too much movement for him to handle at present so is being ridden by a rider who is giving the horse support and balance so horse can develop muscles to allow for balance to develop.

But I suppose the fact that he is a young stallion at a big atmospheric show and hence might be a little tense/hot/uptight and rushing is not a valid excuse for his outline :rolleyes3: after all shouldn't competition stallions be dopes on ropes?!

And there is nothing more than the basic paces being shown - hardly an example of being pushed in schooling at home!!

A horse built that uphill is more naturally working into a higher frame, the challenge for this horse is probably going to be getting it to stretch down into the contact and loosen its back. But again, it is a 3 year old, so schooling is limited.
 
Sorry dont agree a big man on a less than 3 year old slow growing late maturing breed of horse is no different than a big man on a slow maturing slow growing cob just because he is worth possibly hundreds of thousands pounds doesnt make it right he should have been left until he was well over 3 years of age to even start to work all horses mature at the same rate so he is being set up for serious and possibly fatal problems at a very early age
What would be interesting to see would be the statistical successes of reaching grand prix of the sons and daughters of grand prix horses started at two as opposed to the talented youngsters started at 4 or even 5 given time to grow and mature. Like so many over blown youngsters in showing and other market forces it is rare to see a top winning in hand welsh D go from youngstock classes to ridden classes, as they are all over topped and ruined by the age of 3 or 4 and many are shot due to limb problems and laminitis before they get old enough to ride
there is a huge problem of the over production of fashionable breeds being force fed and trained young to get money big money and that is all it boiled down to, the horse's welfare doesnt come into it money talks and the more fool you if you think differently and actually dream of buying one of these horses because you are the cause of the problem
I would love a tortillas foal but is would be weaned and be a foal/youngster until it was 4 or 5 before being sat upon Yes good and consistant handling so it has great manners and is people orientated but not actually sat on until it was 4 or 5 I certainly wouldnt give tuppence for one that had been backed at 2 as it is almost guaranteed to be a money pit of vets bills and heartache
 
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windand rain said:
and the more fool you if you think differently and actually dream of buying one of these horses because you are the cause of the problem
I
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Well aren't you a nice person if I am a fool and a problem just because i have a differing opinion :rolleyes3:

I never said anything regarding if it is right or wrong to ride a 3 year old. And at least the rider is decent unlike on DD. Valegro was backed at 3, he turned out pretty well considering how early he was backed!!

But it is a bit much to say i am the problem just because i think there is nothing disgraceful in that video as the horse is showing basic paces.
 
He looks a bit tense in the neck and unbalanced to me in the stallion parade vid, but it is clearly an exciting atmosphere for him.

Surly it cost 1000s more to breed him than even it costs to breed even the best Welsh Ds? His owners will be able to capitalize on their investment better if he is produced to GP than if he is hammered into the ground by five, and they know that.

I wouldn't do it, but I'm not a top professional. In most things you can take more risks if your an expert in something, surely this goes for backing horses as well?
 
I'm not supporting the decision to produce this horse so young, because i don't agree with it. However, I spent several years in Germany producing young horses for the big sales, so I've got a bit of insider knowledge - at least of the way the horses I was involved with were produced.

Firstly, many of them work in this sort of frame naturally - it's actually more difficult for them to go in a less advanced outline. They are very short coupled, have immense movement behind, and if they get long and truing out, they are all over the shop. Their comfort zone tends to be up and round - just watch top class, beautifully bred young warmbloods loose schooling, and you will see that this is a pretty natural way of going for them. Secondly, this horse doesn't look to have been in work very long - they tend to install sideways, changes and other simple movements very early on, and he wasn't asked to produce any of that, so i'd put moment on him being pretty much freshly backed.

He is tense and tight in his neck, but I can't imagine any young stallion wouldn't be in this atmosphere. I've ben to a lot of the big sales out there, and the atmosphere is so electric it's untrue- there's really nothing to compare in the UK. The horses are accustomed to the atmosphere - many of them will have had a lot of outings as foals/yearlings and so on, so they don't find it particularly stressful - just exciting.

This sort of horse is conditioned from a very early age to be strong and mature (relatively speaking). They are exercised in a controlled way (lots of hand walking, loose schooling etc) to encourage strong bones/muscles.tendons/ligaments, fed correctly to ensure steady growth without getting over-topped, and are carefully monitored by producers/vets/other professional to ensure they reach their developmental goals in good form. The care that is taken is immense - horses with this sort of potential are treated like kings. The care really cannot be faulted - it's not in the producers best interests to cut corners, and also - they really love their horses. No matter how slick a production engine it is, the base line is that these people do it because they are completely passionate about producing the most fabulous horses possible.
Yes, he's a little young, but his start in life will have been a million times better than most.
 
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