Disgraceful - Surely this horse is far too young?

[rockyxrio]

I personally don't think the problem is particularly the horse being unhappy, it's putting strain on joints when he's under three years old - reducing his risk of staying sound long term.

 

[cobgoblin]

Too young for this, especially with a heavy male rider with hands like bricks!

 

[Mithras]

Its not something I like to see, but I'm not a dressage person. Producing them like this at 3 instead of 5 means 2 years less for a return on their money and for the stallion potential of the sire to be assessed and promoted. It is a production line and the standard of care will be very high, but there are buyers and competitions which feed that production line.

I was also shocked to see a 3 year old being ridden in a similar way in a showing class in California, seems like that is the norm over there too.

 

[windand rain]

No matter how well intentioned it is still abuse but obviously acceptable abuse to some perhaps comparing it to dd was a bit extreme the point being there would be uproar if an ad from dd was shown with a 2 year old doing what that colt was doing he isnt a stallion he is a rising three year old colt if he was a mature stallion then so be it he is a baby and shouldnt be ridden full stop never mind ridden and calm enough to go to a stallion parade with a hulking great man on board

 

[Wagtail]

I agree with the OP. It is way too young to be doing this type of work. I would only lightly back a 3 year old (if it is strong enough, and ACTUALLY 3). And I mean sit on and led around. Maybe a little trot, then wait until 4 before starting light work.

 

[Cortez]

Disgraceful? Golly, I'd like to see what you think of some REAL abuse then.

The horse is going very nicely, being professionally ridden and showing lovely paces. The majority of horses are broken at three; leaving them later "to mature" just wastes time (and might explain why there are so many "green" 6,7,8 year olds out there). As long as the trainer knows what he is doing there is no harm. I've bred WB's for many years and all mine are broken at three, save for a few exceptionally gangly, backward types. Most successful competition horses are broken as three year olds, most racehorses are broken younger. Comparing this horse with something from Dragon Driving is just silly.

 

[blitznbobs]

Disgraceful? Golly, I'd like to see what you think of some REAL abuse then.

The horse is going very nicely, being professionally ridden and showing lovely paces. The majority of horses are broken at three; leaving them later "to mature" just wastes time (and might explain why there are so many "green" 6,7,8 year olds out there). As long as the trainer knows what he is doing there is no harm. I've bred WB's for many years and all mine are broken at three, save for a few exceptionally gangly, backward types. Most successful competition horses are broken as three year olds, most racehorses are broken younger. Comparing this horse with something from Dragon Driving is just silly.

What she said.

If you left that kind of stallion til 6 then it'd probably be unridable...

 

[rockyxrio]

I don't think many people are advocating waiting until it's six.

I just think they should've waited until at least its third birthday to get on it personally.

It's different to racehorses (though I don't agree with that either), a racehorse retires LONG before a dressage horse. Barring a disaster, a dressage horse should stay sound and able to compete into its late teens. The amount of young horses written off today at five/six/seven makes me sad - and the rise of pushing them younger and younger can't help.

 

[undergroundoli]

I just think they should've waited until at least its third birthday to get on it personally.

If he is a May foal would leaving him till he was actually three had an impact on his stallion grading? Apologies if this is a stupid q.

 

[Cortez]

I don't think many people are advocating waiting until it's six.

I just think they should've waited until at least its third birthday to get on it personally.

It's different to racehorses (though I don't agree with that either), a racehorse retires LONG before a dressage horse. Barring a disaster, a dressage horse should stay sound and able to compete into its late teens. The amount of young horses written off today at five/six/seven makes me sad - and the rise of pushing them younger and younger can't help.

But it's not "the rise of pushing them younger"......horses are traditionally broken to ride at three (and in the more distant past they were usually broken to harness before that); it is the "leaving to mature" that is the modern "thing".

 

[rockyxrio]

But it's not "the rise of pushing them younger"......horses are traditionally broken to ride at three (and in the more distant past they were usually broken to harness before that); it is the "leaving to mature" that is the modern "thing".

This horse hasn't turned three. And I'm betting it's been under saddle for at least several months. So best case scenario, it was broken at 2 1/2.

 

[Cortez]

If he is a May foal would leaving him till he was actually three had an impact on his stallion grading? Apologies if this is a stupid q.

No, not stupid at all. The grading is usually held annually, so if he was a late foal he would have to go to the "3 year old" grading no matter what date it was in his 3 year old year. When I had my late-foaled 3 year old graded he had been backed and ridden for 3 weeks prior to his test, and he looked a lot like this guy, and was presented this way too. A couple of months either way would not make that much difference.

 

[Cortez]

This horse hasn't turned three. And I'm betting it's been under saddle for at least several months. So best case scenario, it was broken at 2 1/2.

I doubt it (see my comment above); it doesn't take 6 months to ride a horse like that in that way if you know what you're doing.

 

[tallyho!]

Very odd but it reminds me of a spider crawling across the floor....

 

[Goldenstar]

But it's not "the rise of pushing them younger"......horses are traditionally broken to ride at three (and in the more distant past they were usually broken to harness before that); it is the "leaving to mature" that is the modern "thing".

This exactly right three was traditional for riding horses and carriage horses in their two year old winter.
It is perfectly possible to work three yo horses with out damaging them if you are skillfull and focused and actually do very little work with them .
The one thing I do agree with is this size of rider is not what I would choose for this type of job ..

 

[undergroundoli]

No, not stupid at all. The grading is usually held annually, so if he was a late foal he would have to go to the "3 year old" grading no matter what date it was in his 3 year old year. When I had my late-foaled 3 year old graded he had been backed and ridden for 3 weeks prior to his test, and he looked a lot like this guy, and was presented this way too. A couple of months either way would not make that much difference.

Thanks for explaining.

 

[windand rain]

Like I said each to their own if you think this is ok then fine that's your decision. I wouldn't do it you would we will have to agree to differ. Horses were backed at three traditionally, most were hunters and the three year olds were brought in from the fields as wild as coots and started their leading training at the end of the hunting season in March/ April by September they were cubbing and then were turned away while the hunt horses did the next hunt season at the end of which they were often brought up and started properly and were working hunt horses at 4 rising 5. Well that is the way it was done 50 to 60 years ago so perhaps that isnt the true tradition either

 

[tallyho!]

Usually what happens to tradition is that, science comes along and says something different. Everyone goes "ooh that's interesting"... and then carry on as if nothing had happened.

 

[shadowboy]

I hate seeing horses overworked in the arena when young but I think with some of these expressive WBs they do naturally work in a shape we might have taken months to achieve - I've only just today finally attained a round self supporting canter out of my NF who is six in May- only taken 18 months lol! We have a lovely WB on our yard who sold for £75,000 as a three year old in one of these stallion parades and he's still going strong-13 this year. In fact he's now turning to a bit of BS showjumping to try his hand to something new. Like I say I'm not usually up for backing them this early but there's far worse out there for a horse!

 

[Goldenstar]

Usually what happens to tradition is that, science comes along and says something different. Everyone goes "ooh that's interesting"... and then carry on as if nothing had happened.

Recently I attended a very interesting vet talk , they had found no correlation between starting young and unsoundness but they did find the work has to be the right type of conditioning .
The work was done on racehorses .

 

[Cortez]

Usually what happens to tradition is that, science comes along and says something different. Everyone goes "ooh that's interesting"... and then carry on as if nothing had happened.

What does science say about it, exactly? And what has "happened"? Horses are traditionally broken at three because that is the best time to break them, IF you are experienced in doing so and know how much to ask and when to stop, which professionals I presume do.

 

[Cortez]

Recently I attended a very interesting vet talk , they had found no correlation between starting young and unsoundness but they did find the work has to be the right type of conditioning .
The work was done on racehorses .

Yes, I have seen that study. It concluded that a judicious amount of physical stress was BETTER for bones and tendons than either a lot of hard work, or doing nothing.

 

[tallyho!]

Recently I attended a very interesting vet talk , they had found no correlation between starting young and unsoundness but they did find the work has to be the right type of conditioning .
The work was done on racehorses .

Open to interpretation... and that is why nothing changes very much. You probably went to a similar talk to me as I have been to a couple and it changes depending on who has presented latest data or which pharma/medical company has come up with a new drug/gadget that it needs to make a profit on and indeed, who has sponsored it.

Which is why I'm saying that, people stick to tradition, because there's too many opinions.

 

[tallyho!]

I hasten to add, just because someone calls themselves a professional, doesn't always mean they are doing the right thing.

 

[Cortez]

I hasten to add, just because someone calls themselves a professional, doesn't always mean they are doing the right thing.

True, in countries which do not license horse trainers. But on the continent, where this horse was presumably being presented, the term professional actually means just that.

 

[tallyho!]

Somehow that still doesn't instill in me the confidence it probably should...

 

[Holly831]

I have to agree, backing a 2 year old and having them work like this is horrific. The young horse clearly isn't developed enough to be working at all. My 1st thought on watching the video was I wonder if he will still be sound at 6?
Such a shame when the industry pushes owners to back & produce so young :-(

 

[tallyho!]

Does no one else think the stallion looks like a spider???

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I wouldn't like one of mine working that hard as a three year old but on another point is it just me that isn't really impressed with him? Not sure why but he just doesn't have the 'spark' that I would look for to breed from.

 

[martlin]

Does no one else think the stallion looks like a spider???

He does, but so does Totilas, so I suppose it runs in the family?