Marydoll
Well-Known Member
I agree a deep litter bed if kept properly is great.
OP if you need to rant about these people on here rather than addressing the problem in your yard you need to seriously think about assertiveness training
DIY Liveries.....RANT!
- Thread starter Kiribati_uk
- Start date
I agree a deep litter bed if kept properly is great.
OP if you need to rant about these people on here rather than addressing the problem in your yard you need to seriously think about assertiveness training
Chestnut mare
Well-Known Member
Do u have a contract? As others said put some rules in there. Limited funds does not mean neglect. My horse is in December-March I deep litter to save money/time but bed is poo picked and straightened up. Plenty of hay is provided too.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
If they're short of money and there's plenty of grass in your fields, I would have thought they'd turn them out as much as possible! That would save them bedding and hay.
I don't agree that being in for a couple of days always means the ponies will "hoon about" and get injuries etc. It's not ideal but lots of horses live in. However if it was my yard I don't think I'd stand for having animals standing in their own filth.
Take a deep breath, pluck up your courage and have a word!
I don't agree that being in for a couple of days always means the ponies will "hoon about" and get injuries etc. It's not ideal but lots of horses live in. However if it was my yard I don't think I'd stand for having animals standing in their own filth.
Take a deep breath, pluck up your courage and have a word!
milesjess
Well-Known Member
I won't say too much on the subject as you never know if these people are members on this forum... But I hate it when people do this.
I know of someone who has access to 24/7 turnout yet still chooses to keep their young horses in all the time, for days on end. Dirty, wet stables that haven't been mucked out for days, no hay etc... Luckily water is accessible.
IMO if people can't be bothered to go and see to their horses day to day they either shouldn't have them or pay someone else to sort them.
I hate seeing youngsters especially stuck in their stables all day and night bored out of their minds and people wonder why they get bad vices/ manners
I always mind my own buisness but there is a line when something needs to be said.
As for deep litter, my horse has it and I love it but I make sure it's managed correctly. His bed is clean/ dry and very thick.
I know of someone who has access to 24/7 turnout yet still chooses to keep their young horses in all the time, for days on end. Dirty, wet stables that haven't been mucked out for days, no hay etc... Luckily water is accessible.
IMO if people can't be bothered to go and see to their horses day to day they either shouldn't have them or pay someone else to sort them.
I hate seeing youngsters especially stuck in their stables all day and night bored out of their minds and people wonder why they get bad vices/ manners
I always mind my own buisness but there is a line when something needs to be said.
As for deep litter, my horse has it and I love it but I make sure it's managed correctly. His bed is clean/ dry and very thick.
Jazzy B
Well-Known Member
there is nothing wrong with a few yard rules lazy people like this make me mad!!! . I would personally ask them to leave as sounds like they are really not the type of people you enjoy having on your yard.
lazy people like this make me mad!!! . I would personally ask them to leave as sounds like they are really not the type of people you enjoy having on your yard.
Wagtail
Horse servant
OP give them a list of your rules which should include the minimum standard of care you will tolerate and if they break the rules give them a month's notice. Having liveries should be a pleasurable thing, not something that gives you heartache. DIY liveries do not bring in any profit to speak of. So what do you lose by giving them the boot?
Luci07
Well-Known Member
By coming on here, OP has had some good advice and it has helped her think things through so dont criticise her for asking! It may seem obvious to others but don't forget when you are your own it's easy to get deflected!
I think the idea of drawing up rules contract for the new year is the best, clearest and least contentious way! As for the deep litter - it is brilliant when done properly BUT!! what a pain come spring to take it all out. I used to help my neighbours who had straw deep litter all winter. Worked well but come. Spring, tool some 3-4 hours to properly remove all the bedding,, and OP... Guess that could well be left to you !
I think the idea of drawing up rules contract for the new year is the best, clearest and least contentious way! As for the deep litter - it is brilliant when done properly BUT!! what a pain come spring to take it all out. I used to help my neighbours who had straw deep litter all winter. Worked well but come. Spring, tool some 3-4 hours to properly remove all the bedding,, and OP... Guess that could well be left to you !
hannahmurphy
Well-Known Member
I shouldn't worry about the horses standing in for a couple of days, this is down to the owner.
But as for the basic standards of care, I would definitely address this with issuing a set of simple yards rules. New year, new start etc. Mucking out really can't be skipped! Poor pones have probably already got thrush if it is as bad as you say.
Anyway if yard rules are issued to everyone, you're not singling anyone out so that should stop you feeling mean
I've always been DIY but many yards involve signing a contract and adhering to ALL yard rules.
But as for the basic standards of care, I would definitely address this with issuing a set of simple yards rules. New year, new start etc. Mucking out really can't be skipped! Poor pones have probably already got thrush if it is as bad as you say.
Anyway if yard rules are issued to everyone, you're not singling anyone out so that should stop you feeling mean
I've always been DIY but many yards involve signing a contract and adhering to ALL yard rules.
Kiribati_uk
Well-Known Member
Thanks for advice, It's just the liveries I have had in the past have been Amazing, So it's a shock having people who basically don't care about their ponies, I don't know why they have them really.
But the rules are written so will be interesting to see what happens!!!
As for leaving me to clean the deep litter out, world war 3 will break out if im left with that!!!!!!!
I didn't know what went on, on other livery yards hence me asking about deep litter, I didn't want to come across as a stroppy yard owner. I believe that the liveries should enjoy the yard they are on not have to adhere to strict rules, but as I have found out not all people that own horses are horse people!!!
But the rules are written so will be interesting to see what happens!!!
As for leaving me to clean the deep litter out, world war 3 will break out if im left with that!!!!!!!
I didn't know what went on, on other livery yards hence me asking about deep litter, I didn't want to come across as a stroppy yard owner. I believe that the liveries should enjoy the yard they are on not have to adhere to strict rules, but as I have found out not all people that own horses are horse people!!!
Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
When you make your rules up, you need to put on that horses are to be mucked out daily and if this is not done by the horses owner it will be done by you at a charge of £xxx per day and invoiced to the owner at the end of the month.
CBFan
Well-Known Member
I know a Y/O who won't allow deep litter - the wee seeps through the brickwork and into the stables in the lower block. But I think she also says it to avoid situations like this.
I really can't understand people who think it is fair to keep their horses in for 4 hours at a time with no attention.
I really can't understand people who think it is fair to keep their horses in for 4 hours at a time with no attention.
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
I have a mix of rubber at the front and deep litter at the back, id defy anyone to come into my stables and say they werent well kept and comfortable for the horses, if people have loads of soggy wet bedding on top, its not deep litter its a Filthy bed, deep litter is a great way to keep horses, it provides good insulation on the base of the stable, a soft bed for the horse, is cost effective and if kept appropriately clean and hygenic.
Ive tried full muckouts, rubber only with some shavings on top but prefer deep litter and rubber.
Anyone who lets a horse stand in their own filth for a week should be bloody ashamed of themselves, id give them a day to get down and clear them out or a weeks notice, to allow neglect like this to happen by omission is just as bad imo
Ive tried full muckouts, rubber only with some shavings on top but prefer deep litter and rubber.
Anyone who lets a horse stand in their own filth for a week should be bloody ashamed of themselves, id give them a day to get down and clear them out or a weeks notice, to allow neglect like this to happen by omission is just as bad imo
paulineh
Well-Known Member
DIY is as it says do it yourself anything done by the yard owner should be paid for extra.
A yard owner has their own lives to live and should not need to be dealing with the DIY liveries unless asked and paid for. We all have times when we need help but you own the yard and they are keeping their horse/ horses with you but not paying you to look after them. You do not need rude and uncaring liveries.
Set the rules give them a copy and if they do not like them then
they can leave. You do not need the hassle
A yard owner has their own lives to live and should not need to be dealing with the DIY liveries unless asked and paid for. We all have times when we need help but you own the yard and they are keeping their horse/ horses with you but not paying you to look after them. You do not need rude and uncaring liveries.
Set the rules give them a copy and if they do not like them then
they can leave. You do not need the hassle
welshcobmad
Well-Known Member
On the D.I.Y I was on, in the contract it stated if horses haven't been mucked out to a reasonable standard whether it be by the owner or arranged with another livery by 11am, they would be charged double the regular muckout rate by the yard owner. Worked well!
lauraandjack
Well-Known Member
So, if deep litter is "lazy" surely by the same vein those of you who use rubber mats with minimal bedding are also "lazy" ??????????? Or maybe all of us who don't get down on hands and knees and pick out every last tiny piece of poo and wet shavings are lazy.
Deep litter does not equal not mucking out - beds need to be managed well.
I love my deep litter bed - but it isn't right for every horse. My horse is very tidy and tends to poo and wee mostly in the same place, and doesn't stir the bed up. So he has a lovely deep bed which he rarely disturbs, droppings are removed once or twice daily depending if he's turned out or not, and I remove bits of the wet to stop it building up. Nice thick layer of dry on top and jobs a good 'un!
Definitely saves me time, I can muck out in 5 minutes or less, and saves money, as I use 2-2 1/2 bales of Rapport a month (similar to Hemcore), and ned has a giant bed to lie on.
Deep litter does not equal not mucking out - beds need to be managed well.
I love my deep litter bed - but it isn't right for every horse. My horse is very tidy and tends to poo and wee mostly in the same place, and doesn't stir the bed up. So he has a lovely deep bed which he rarely disturbs, droppings are removed once or twice daily depending if he's turned out or not, and I remove bits of the wet to stop it building up. Nice thick layer of dry on top and jobs a good 'un!
Definitely saves me time, I can muck out in 5 minutes or less, and saves money, as I use 2-2 1/2 bales of Rapport a month (similar to Hemcore), and ned has a giant bed to lie on.
mystiandsunny
Well-Known Member
Deep litter involves careful mucking out - you have to get ALL of the droppings or it starts to go rank. Should be lovely and firm underneath, not smell at all, drain well and have a fluffy layer of dry shavings on top.
Bikerchickone
Well-Known Member
I've had the same problems on a previous yard. YO and I always mucked out to a high standard, another woman who had no business having a horse in the first place because she was terrified of her pony and all the others, didn't ever put the bed up properly and stable smelled shocking. Her mare was quite old so was worse than most too! In the end YO and I would muck out for her and put extra shavings in because we couldn't see the pony go without. Never got any thanks for it. The woman took advantage and when she realised we were both fed up with her and she wouldn't get any more out of us, she stopped speaking to us both, in the nastiest possible ways!
Think what I'm trying to say is that no matter how polite and helpful you try to be with some people they'll take advantage as long as they can knowing someone else will pick up the pieces. Sometimes you're best off rid of them! This woman has moved yards three times since I've known her and neither of the two she's left would take her back. I could go back to any of my prevuious yards at any time, so word gets around and they'll get what they deserve. Put your foot down with a firm hand and hopefully you'll get some really nice people come into your yard.
Good luck (apologies about my rant, hate people like this!)
Think what I'm trying to say is that no matter how polite and helpful you try to be with some people they'll take advantage as long as they can knowing someone else will pick up the pieces. Sometimes you're best off rid of them! This woman has moved yards three times since I've known her and neither of the two she's left would take her back. I could go back to any of my prevuious yards at any time, so word gets around and they'll get what they deserve. Put your foot down with a firm hand and hopefully you'll get some really nice people come into your yard.
Good luck (apologies about my rant, hate people like this!)
topclass
Well-Known Member
I was talking about the time and to what extent of deep litter as per the question I dont critise people who have deep litter that is there choice but I dont have deep litter as I have had liveries in the past who have used deep litter to the point I have had to have the floor in the stable re concreted at £400 a time hence why I dont allow it it's nto a cheap option for me to keep doing all 16 stables and if left for long period of time can lead to foot problems IF not deep littered properly but for the sake of another 5-10 mins I muck out fully and it saves on bedding and time at a later date.
neddynesbitt
Well-Known Member
A lot of people are discussing deep litter but nobody has mentioned the fact that as the yard owner you too could be held responsible for neglect as it's your yard A previous yard I was at had a person just like your liveries and the yard owner unlike you wasn't worried about it.
WHW were informed of the situation (the yard owner was unaware of the fact it had been reported) The yard owner has been given a very stern talking to and reminded that she is responsible as it's her yard.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not having a go at you but you could use the above reasons to your liveries why you will not tolerate this behaviour on your yard good luck xx
A previous yard I was at had a person just like your liveries and the yard owner unlike you wasn't worried about it.WHW were informed of the situation (the yard owner was unaware of the fact it had been reported) The yard owner has been given a very stern talking to and reminded that she is responsible as it's her yard.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not having a go at you but you could use the above reasons to your liveries why you will not tolerate this behaviour on your yard
good luck xxangelish
Well-Known Member
A lot of people are discussing deep litter but nobody has mentioned the fact that as the yard owner you too could be held responsible for neglect as it's your yard
WHW were informed of the situation (the yard owner was unaware of the fact it had been reported) The yard owner has been given a very stern talking to and reminded that she is responsible as it's her yard.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not having a go at you but you could use the above reasons to your liveries why you will not tolerate this behaviour on your yard
this is important because it is your yard you are reponsible in some way for there horses welfare if a charity were to become involved
sounds like a night mare it is horrible having to confront people but your other "nice" liverys will also be suffering as i do due to a lazy sod on my yard whom i share a field with a shelter in it ,she has two ponies and i have one horse in there and the field shelter was becoming a mess as i couldn't keep on top of it myself so i have told her i will do half but i wasn't doing all of it ,she has done some of her half but its horrible having to deal with people like this as she is a nice person
but she shouldn't bother having them as she will just not make time to do things and everyone else has to do it it makes fellow liveries miserable
good luck hope you get it sorted out
DougalJ
Well-Known Member
I am a DIY'er and if I don't say so myself, I'm a very good, honest, reliable one too! LOL I keep my horses at a friends yard so it all works out fine.
I didn't realise that a YO is "responsible" for the welfare of horses on their yard. I imagine you can give friendly advice etc etc but you cannot make someone look after their horses. It needs a diplomatic but firm word to these liveries to actual LOOK AFTER their horses!
I didn't realise that a YO is "responsible" for the welfare of horses on their yard. I imagine you can give friendly advice etc etc but you cannot make someone look after their horses. It needs a diplomatic but firm word to these liveries to actual LOOK AFTER their horses!
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Why not just stick up your yard rules so everyone can see them, then its not aimed at them and they wont be offended?
Kiribati_uk
Well-Known Member
Well rules are up!!
And they have been told that deep litter is not allowed next year as in 1st jan 2012,
Went down like lead balloon and I;m a terrible YO, but basically I don't care I have spent past month stressing about this, got to the point were I wouldn't go out on yard if they were here.
And they have been told that deep litter is not allowed next year as in 1st jan 2012,
Went down like lead balloon and I;m a terrible YO, but basically I don't care I have spent past month stressing about this, got to the point were I wouldn't go out on yard if they were here.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Well done.
It's a shame you've been pushed to this. As others have said, deep litter is fine if done correctly. But not when it's used an an excuse to just be filthy and not muck out.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Nothing wrong with deep littering, so it would go down like a less balloon with me too.
Haven't read the whole thread, but your initial post made me think it was some sort of wind up.
I'm assuming, though, that
Haven't read the whole thread, but your initial post made me think it was some sort of wind up.
I'm assuming, though, that
AmyMay
Situation normal
You've had some good advice, especially on how to avoid a visit from welfare authorities.
Ali27
Well-Known Member
This sounds like someone at our old yard! They had four horses and during winter, their horses hardly went out and they just hayed and watered them once a day and beds were disgusting! I could never understand why they didn't turn out every day as it saves money with hay and shavings, saves on mucking out time and makes for happier ponies! Hopefully you aren't in Staffs as this could be the same person!
Kiribati_uk
Well-Known Member
AmyMay
Situation normal
I thought it was a wind up because a well managed yard would have done something about this situation immediately.....
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Ouch, that's a bit harsh. the OP has come here because they want to do something and just wanted to check out the best way of going about it.