DIY Liveries

[Lulup]

I only offer 5 day livery with DIY at weekends (so that I get weekends off basically) and I have a lovely bunch of liveries that I now count as good friends. However, whilst the yard runs like clockwork from mon - fri, the weekends can be a slightly different matter! The yard tends to be a bit more messy and chaotic with everyone doing their own thing and yes sometimes things get broken or not put back in the right place etc. But.. The weekends are very sociable and can be great fun - I used to find it stressful but I have learned/am learning to accept that it is nice to see people enjoying their horses and I can get things ship shape again on Monday morning!

My point is that actually yes the same people and horses can present issues on DIY that don't arise when they are on part/full. During the week I am on hand to get horses in when they have had enough so they don't get left running round trashing paddocks for example, and they all have the same routine so they don't fret etc.. And it is me using my own equipment so I notice if things need repairing before they actually break.. Getting the picture?

I would not tolerate abusive or unpleasant behaviour but I can see how the constant friction of different people with different ideas all operating different routines on different schedules and budgets could lead to conflict and heated situations. If you have a good YO let them know you appreciate them because it genuinely does help at times when it all just seems like a lot of grief for not a lot of money..

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The OP has obviously had a terrible time. I hope you are happier without the DIY's.

The truth is that there is good, mediocre and bad to be found in all forms of horse owners, livery yards, YO's etc...

I could tell some shocking facts about what happened to my chestnut mare when I had her on part livery. It has certainly put me off ever trusting her care to a livery yard, but I know that many people and their horses are very happy on part/full livery.

 

[luckyoldme]

I knew when I started this thread that there would be some very indignant people and I accept that not all DIY liveries are as bad - however I am only sharing some of my experiences with the forum. I too used to be a DIYer for over 20yrs before I was lucky enough to buy my stables, so I am sympatheic to DIY needs. However would you allow someone in your home, renting a room for the equivalent of £4.50 a day? That is the question.... at least with Part or Full livery, I can manage the turnout to protect the ground (no poached fields), adjust feeding to each individuals requirements (no welfare cases) and ensure that the horse is treated quickly by a vet when needed, preventing unnecessary suffering (without threats to my yard or physical abuse). Yes, I have been traumatised by the problems and aggravation that I have suffered through taking DIY. I believed that I could run a good livery yard (having been on some awful ones in the past). It appears that despite my best efforts, some people take the ****. I have always gone beyond being the YO, I have repaired DIYers cars FOC, picked them up from their home when they had no transport, stayed late to remove loose shoes and help change dressings, and stayed at the yard until 2am for the vet to attend - all done FOC. Obviously I am just a kind hearted mug! Lol... Well no more thank you - at least Part and Full livery will earn me some money, and if I get any problems with them, then they will be asked to leave...

in short yes you are a kind hearted mug.
I have too done things foc for people and then they expect it and feel aggrieved when you don't /can t do something they want you to do. I think as another yo said you need to be very selective about the people you allow into your livery yard..and I personally apply the same principle to my personal friends too.

 

[trottingon]

^^ Have to agree with this. I am on a small private DIY yard (4 of us - 5 horses). I treat the place with respect, as do the other liveries. We all pay on time and comply with the YO's requests. We provide our own elec tape/energisers to fence off our own paddocks. We all poo pick. All of our horses are seen twice a day and all their needs attended to. If one of us can't get there we arrange among ourselves to ensure that the horses are not compromised. Please, do not tar all DIY-ers with the same brush, we aren't all the same. Alas though I have met a few of the kind of people you describe, and yes they seem to move often... for a reason. Would advise any YO to make a few enquiries in the area before saying yes whether they are DIY, full or part liveries... And for the record I went from full TO DIY because not all yards are what they say they are and after years I came to realise I just have to get on and look after pone myself... so its not always about money..

^^This

I'm sorry the OP has come across some horrible people, it's a real shame he/she now feels enough is enough.

I'm on a large DIY yard and I try to be as reasonable, respectful and responsible as I possibly can towards my YO and her land/stables. I try to treat her and her property like I would like mine to be treated. It's not perfect, there's plenty I could moan about if I chose to, but I'd rather try not to sweat the small stuff and stay in her good books. There are precious few yards around here, the last thing I'd want is for me or my horses to get any sort of reputation for being anything but good to deal with. As far as I'm aware I'd be welcomed back to any of my previous yards. I'd like to hope I'm a pretty good DIYer to have around.

We're not all bad!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OP, I'm among the YO's who have had liveries over the years (have had them on & off for nearly 30 years) and will never have one again, but have not gone quite so far as to label all DIY's as a bunch of 'xyz's..........

We had one livery for about a year, as a favour to a friend. Never again!
She was supposed to be DIY but we seemed to do all the work - all for the cost of the feed the pony ate. The pony was lovely though and trouble free most of the time.

We call it 'livery yard mentality', expecting others to do your horse/look after your children because you are at work/can't be bothered, without appreciating that fences/land/stables don't maintain themselves, opening a big bale of haylage in the middle of summer to keep your horse quiet whilst waiting for vet/farrier, without thinking about what will happen to the rest of it, etc, etc.

 

[Queenbee]

As I've said before - and I expect others are sick to the back teeth of me repeating myself - I've only ever been on professionally run yards. And always DIY. Yard ruled with a rod of iron - end result, absolutely no problems.

A horse on part or full livery can still destroy your field and will still churn it up. The owner can still threaten you and can still refuse to pay you.

The only change you're making is charging more money for a horse that's on part livery. The owners haven't changed......

Agree with AM, if the yard is run professionally by someone who really knows their business, then there is no problem with DIY, firm rules, a YO you can respect and trust and one who is particular about their liveries and there's no problem. I've been at my yard for 18 months, not one whisper of trouble from horses or liveries, no arguments, everyone's responsible, gets along, supportive of each other and with YO. Chores are done by all, yard efficiently run and maintained. Even when new horses and people come to the yard the equilibrium is maintained.


Don't be so quick to point the finger at the liveries OP, the absolute key to a perfect livery yard is the perfect YO in my opinion.

 

[hairycob]

I could start a post slating full/part YOs but I'm not daft enough to think my experience is totally representative.
I was on a smallish DIY yard for years. Very happy group of liveries that had been there for years & looked after the land (& elderly YO when she needed it). Then she retired & a different member of the family took over & started offering Full & Part livery. Yikes - if that's what having your horse "cared for" is like!!!. More than doubled the number of horses to well beyond what the land can take (7 to 16), minimal hay, extremely rough treatment. All the DIYs left as they could bear to see such awful treatment of horses or cope with having their stuff pinched.
It's taken me a couple of moves to find another decent yard but am now on a lovely DIY yard & after 10 days have no intention of moving unless I win the lottery & can afford my own place.

 

[Flora]

I have just opened my own livery yard ad I am not doing Diy, not because of the hassle, but I like my horses in a routine, all fed and out /in at the same time. Doesnt matter if its Diy or full, the people are still the same. I have 6 part liveries who are all lovely and 2 full, who are lovely but expect me to do everything and wipe their horses backside if I would!! I left stables empty as I was fed up with the time wasters and people just doing their nosey, and will only fill them if I think the people are suitable as I have lovely people on the yard and it only takes one bad apple to upset the apple cart.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I've been on DIY and Part-livery at different times and do not have a split personality I'm the same conscientious owner in either situation. DIY yards will naturally be a little more chaotic because each will be doing their own thing with different routines hence the yard can be a bit more stressful if horses are left out late and some are brought in early etc.

I'm looking forward to the day I find a good conscientious YO will good management skills.

 

[spot22]

Not being a horsy person myself but I spend a fair amount of time down the yard helping my daughter with all the mucking out , filling water buckets , ankle deep in mud. One thing I have noticed is that the other owners do tend to be very fussy about their space for all their bits and pieces. This I'm afraid is what's called human nature after all , weather it be Full , Part or DIY livery I don't think it really mattera which type. Ever heard of the saying "Give them an inch" etc etc . I suppose its no different to someone nicking your parking space outside your house. Anyway I just thought I would share my views.

 

[Goldenstar]

One of my friends runs a DIY yard .
Another kept her horse there .
It's enlightening to hear the two sides of the story .

 

[Dexydoodle]

OP - the thing is you're not just talking about your experiences. You say 95% of all diy liveries di xyz. Have you net 95% of all diy-ers? Ive been diy until the current yard and we're now part as there were no decent local diy yards with floodlit arena with spaces. The last yard we were on (only left as moved out of area) was a lovely well run diy yard with none of the problems you list. Surely with 30 odd horses there, with your sweeping generalisations there would have only been a few decent liveries?! As opposed to the yard of lovely people who were respectful of the yo property and rules that was in fact the case. They were selective about who they took in though and would never say they had a vacancy until they'd met the potential livery. Having said that, I also love my current yard which has a very similar atmosphere. Well run but relaxed with friendly yard owners, I'd hate to be on a yard where the yo talked about the liveries the way you do!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Agree with this.
My DIY yard is full of nice people, we don't moan when feidl are restricted by yo as we know they are doing it for the good of the fields. We get along great with each other and the yard.



This some of my previous yards have been like you have posted about.
I think my yard is rare.

 

[tinap]

Hmm, I know on our yard it's those on part livery that give the yo the most grief & break everything!! Us diy'ers see everything the yo has to do & put up with so are much more appreciative! Obviously that's just here though 😉

 

[Hoofprints in the Snow]

The best YO's are a good judge of character and will keep boxes empty rather than accept bad liveries. It'd be awful to be on a yard with people like the OP has accepted.
Part and full livery owners just come with a different set of problems unless the YO is selective.

Even being this careful, the odd bad one gets in!. We had one that we thought would be an asset on the yard, oh how wrong, turned out to be one of the worst, always complaining about something minor, trouble making waste of space. Was glad to see the back of her. It doesn't always matter who you think may be a good livery, often true colours don't come through at first.

 

[Arizahn]

Even being this careful, the odd bad one gets in!. We had one that we thought would be an asset on the yard, oh how wrong, turned out to be one of the worst, always complaining about something minor, trouble making waste of space. Was glad to see the back of her. It doesn't always matter who you think may be a good livery, often true colours don't come through at first.

Or a really decent livery will get a not so nice sharer, who then irritates everyone else when the livery they share with isn't there...

<twitches in corner and growls>

 

[putasocinit]

Didnt want to read and run, sad thread really and no we are not all bad, and i certainly want diy so that i can do my horses and care for their welfare, and i dont have huge demands from the livery yard, and i would pay more if the price went up because that is just the way it is, some full and part liveries have been known to offer low standards to their liveries and not what is promised. Full and part liveries after paying themselves for working i.e. Mucking out, bringing in etc, they havent made that much profit so i do feel they only want full and part to keep the livery owner away from the yard as much as possible, as it is their home

 

[Marydoll]

On the H&H forums I see a lot of people complaining about DIY livery yards, the costs, politics, yard rules and most of all the YO. I own my own small yard and have run it as a DIY livery yard for 8yrs. But I have now come to a decision.... I am only going to accept Part liveries from this point forwards.
After my experiences I would advise anyone who owns or rents property to read this before they think that trying to generate a bit of extra income is worth having DIY liveries. I am a responsible and qualified horse owner who was just trying to supplement my own horses keep.

After 8yrs, I will now avoid taking in a DIY livery as it isn't worth £30 a week for all the mess, aggravation, abuse and damage that they cause. DIY liveries are irresponsible in their behaviour, horse care and respect for my property. They have destroyed my paddocks and gateways (now unusable knee deep in mud), caused structural damage to the stable buildings, stolen my property, given me verbal abuse, threatened me with physical injury, threatened to set fire to my yard, refused to pay monies owed (went to small claims court), flooded the yard with water, blocked the drains, broken the toilet seat.... The list goes on! The most upsetting part is their so called 'horse care' - I have had horses left unattended for 5 days, underfed and malnourished, owners refusing to call the vet when necessary, refusing to worm their horses when requested, and refusing to poo pick their paddocks.
In 8yrs, I have called the police twice, gone to Court once and had visits from the RSPCA, this is despite having a comprehensive Yard contract/agreement. That is without the mental stress of recieving text messages and phone calls from 5.15am until 11.30pm, having abusive comments posted on Facebook, and worrying that they have closed gates, locked up, turned off lights etc. when I am not there.
Having had DIY liveries, I now realise that they caused me much more work than if I was just keeping my own horses. DIY owners are needy and their horses cause damage and chaos. In short DIY liveries are not worth the hassle! Next Summer my horses will benefit from the extra grass available and next Winter my bank balance will benefit from having more grazing available for my own horses (less hay to put in field). My yard is now immaculately clean and tidy, and I am now stress free

Ever heard the phrase dont tar everyone with the same brush ?
Not all DIY liveries are like the ones you describe, just as not all YO are money grabbers who want the cash but not the hassle of running a business

 

[asbo]

The way you think about DIY liveries is the same as what I think about most YO'ers!

 

[LeneHorse]

.
I personally prefer DIY to part or full as I like to know my horse is done to my high standard, and I feel my bond with my horse is better.
What on earth gives you the right to be so judgemental about people who choose to keep their horse on DIY rather than part or full? I would imagine those that treat other people's property badly will do whether they are on DIY part or full.
Ho hum

Agree with this - I like having my horse on DIY and wouldn't have it any other way even if I could afford it. However we are on a big yard which is run as a business and it is very much a business relationship with the yard owner. Not saying it is perfect by any mean but it suits me. I was on a small yard with my previous pony - basically someone's house who took in a few DIY liveries to help pay the mortgage. It was a bit of a nightmare and I much prefer the set up at the yard I'm on now.(despite it being over-run with kids atm!).

 

[booandellie]

Reading this post with great interest and can't believe how unlucky you have been op to have such horrendous liveries. I have only been offering diy livery for a year but have obviously been very lucky cos all mine are fab. they help with each others horses, poo pick, and keep yard tidy and are all reliable and love their horses and take good care of all their needs. I am choosey who i have and occasionally have to put a reminder on the board if it looks like yard duties are getting neglected. but on the whole they are fab. they even cover each other for holidays. maybe because my yard is only small it is easier to keep control of but i don't think you can possibly say they are all a nightmare. Running a yard is hard work but with the right people on it it can run smoothly!!

 

[Renvers]

Surely it was rather naive to come on a forum of horse owners and generalise about the 95% of those on DIY.

I have been full and part livery for years and have to disabuse you of the idea that such liveries are saints whilst diy ones are sinners. I have seen quite a few non payers even on fancy competition yards, having money to spend on horses doesn't mean they will, or that they will make the time to see their horses.

I am sorry you have had a bad experience but rather than assume all DIY's will be the same as those you have already met, instead why don't you reconsider how and where you are advertising your vacancies and maybe change your selection techniques/consider only those with personal recommendations so you can be happier that the people using your place are ones you are comfortable with.

 

[Joanne4584]

I have witnessed horrible DIY liveries and nice ones. I'm not a YO but I've seen lots of people come and go on my current yard (in fact I'm the only original livery left!). The main problems have been people causing arguments and spreading rumours. I'm friendly with everyone but keep my head down and do not get involved in anything! Some people clearly didn't care for the horse enough, and others were just messy, leaving their stuff everywhere.

I treat the yard like I'd treat it as if it was my own. I tidy up after myself and pay my livery on time. My YO is actually quite glad lots of people left because she says it wasn't worth the hassle! Now there's just a few of us and it's really nice.

 

[Nitro mouse]

I am on DIY, I want to be on DIY, I want to see my two twice a day I want to look after them. I do not do DIY to be a pain or because it's a cheap option. I respect the yard and the land because it is my YO home. I treat the place with the respect I would expect someone to treat my own home. I dont pester the YO, I don't complain, I keep my area clean and tidy, I do what I am asked to do when I am asked to do it and I have always done so. I pay on time.... I have always been on DIY (30+ years). My current Yo is scary as hell, and has a list of rules several pages long. If you are stupid enough to cross her or break any rules you will be kicked off... At the moment there are 10 of us all DIy, no bitching, crossed words or nastiness, all pay on time, all keep the place clean and tidy, all keep same hours for turning out and in...we all have our own storage and equipment so anything that breaks is ours. If the YO or her husband need any maintenance help we are all ready to pitch in and help and do so...
I am sorry OP that you have had such a hard time, but I am a little offended that as a DIy livery I am therefore regarded as being a sub standard horse owner.

 

[SO1]

Sounds like you have had very bad luck - was your yard very cheap and attracting people who had financial difficulties therefore find it hard to pay the livery/food for horses or for the assistance and stealing stuff.

I think a lot of the problems that arise on yards are about expectations, sometimes unrealistic. People even with the best intentions are unlikely to behave perfectly at all times that includes YO and liveries and the same goes for horses. No-one can control the weather!

Perhaps on both sides accepting perfection is unlikely to be obtainable and then working out what is the most annoying thing and if affects lots of people and then trying to solve that first if possible and then move on without holding a grudge.

Also accepting mistakes might be made and if they are saying sorry and trying to work out what went wrong and how to prevent something like that happening again.

I can see how some problems might arise on DIY yard with no services available, for example if horses need to be in a by a certain time and the owner gets delayed and there is no-one who can bring the horse in. Or in situations where the owner has financial difficulties and needs assistance but can't afford to pay.

 

[wench]

Worst places I've seen are DIY yards. Full of bitching and yard owner happy to take the money, and not maintain any of the facilities (which were up to him)

 

[Achinghips]

I've just moved from DIY to my own land. I appreciate it so much .... I was thinking of taking in a livery as I have a set up for six, but only two horses of my own. However, having seen the damage just two can do to my own land in one month, for example, the amount of levelling the arena needs, the cribbing, the mud, the gateways, the cost of the flood lights, and the amount of water I use with just enough drainage capacity for my two, the squashing of the hay bars and corner mangers, I daren't!

I don't think it's diyers themselves, more the beasts they have, which do the damage and you can't blame for that!

 

[Piccy]

I use to be on part livery but couldnt stand the lack of caring for my own horse! I think it is a shame OP has tarred all DIY as bad I have been DIY for several years and have seen good and bad but i depends a lot on the YO and YM as well. I have a routine every week day morning i am on the yard for 6.30 weekends by 8am i come back straight from work my horse wants for nothing if my horse makes a divert in the school i hand rake it; i.poo pick respect the rules and we all help each other not all.people on DIY are disrespectful.