Do any of you keep a humane killer / gun at home just in case?

No chance !! I'd try to keep the horse as comfortable as possible and hope to god the vet can get their bum out here in time , failing that I would be on the phone to a dear friend of ours from the hunt whom I trust. OH being a farmer has the tools to do it, but I wouldn't let him so much can go wrong.
 
It's been illegal to pith cattle for human consumption since the TSE Regs came in 2001.

Some vets have a captive bolt gun, others use a free bullet - a firearms (not shotgun) licence is required. The horse's brain is very small (!) and hard to hit - the angle is crucial which is not always easy to ensure in an animal which may be moving and distressed. It is not just a matter of solely hitting the brain but angling the shot so that the base of the brain is destroyed. Sometimes it does take two shots - this should not be necessarily seen as a measure of incompetence, merely a recognition that you are trying to hit something small, at a particular angle, which is hidden inside a large bony casing (the skull) such that you do not know its exact position when you are firing, and which may be moving.

Although it is possible to euthanase a small horse (or bovine) with a shotgun and large gauge shot it is far from ideal and best reserved for emergencies.
 
Definitely not something I'd like to do. Although I'm lucky enough never to have been it such a situation, I think I'd rather attempt to keep them quiet and feed them carrots or something than try to PTS myself.
As an equine science student who has done a head dissection, I can echo Gamebird in saying their brain is incredibly small and the bullet hole wasn't where I expected it to be (i.e. further up the head rather than between the eyes) - professionals are there for a reason.
 
Gamebird said:
It's been illegal to pith cattle for human consumption since the TSE Regs came in 2001.

Some vets have a captive bolt gun, others use a free bullet - a firearms (not shotgun) licence is required. The horse's brain is very small (!) and hard to hit - the angle is crucial which is not always easy to ensure in an animal which may be moving and distressed. It is not just a matter of solely hitting the brain but angling the shot so that the base of the brain is destroyed. Sometimes it does take two shots - this should not be necessarily seen as a measure of incompetence, merely a recognition that you are trying to hit something small, at a particular angle, which is hidden inside a large bony casing (the skull) such that you do not know its exact position when you are firing, and which may be moving.

Although it is possible to euthanase a small horse (or bovine) with a shotgun and large gauge shot it is far from ideal and best reserved for emergencies.
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That makes sense. Thanks Gamebird.
I now have an even greater respect for my knackerman, who quietly sent off my old boy a couple of years ago with a tuft of grass still between his teeth.
 
I know of 2 RTAs locally where neighbours shot the horse as an emergency. One horse and rider were hit by 'joyriders' in a stolen car, almost directly outside the gate of a big livery yard. YO shot the horse asap.
The 2nd horse strayed from the field, in the dark, along with several companions and was hit by a car. For some reason no-one could get an equine vet out and the local knacker is a good hour away, the local rabbiter came and put the horse out of its agony.
 
Gamebird's spot on explanation is exactly why I've always used a knackerman who makes the complex and technical decision several times a day and hence has the experience to do it sucessfully every time.
 
Polos Mum said:
Gamebird's spot on explanation is exactly why I've always used a knackerman who makes the complex and technical decision several times a day and hence has the experience to do it sucessfully every time.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting for a moment that we're talking about anything other than absolute emergencies where the poor animal is in agony and it's going to take too long to get a professional.

Like Pearlsacrolsinger, my knackerman couldn't get here in less than an hour.
 
I must be in the minority then when I say I would happily go on a course/learn how to shoot dead a horse. I would rather have to shoot a horse in an horrific accident (ie: hit by car, guts over road, horse still alive) than wait for the vet......an hour can feel like a life time! If I ever do manage to get a yard of my own I would be quite happy to hold licence and have training..... At least then if it came to it I can give the horse one last act of kindness and relieve it from suffering.
 
Oh how I wished I'd been able to pts my pony a few months back.
I found him having seizure one afternoon (Easter Day). By the time vet arrived (over half an hour later) he had died a horrible death...his system shut down and he basically suffocated to death while I held him. :(
That being said..i think it would be a disaster if any old person were able to do it and I would hate to think that in my haste I may have added to ghe trauma by getting it wrong...
 
Mithras said:
No, would that not be taking the HHO obsession with pts a bit far?

Obviously we have to think about these things, but whats with the constant threads about pts?
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I with you on this I think it must be the dark nights .
I tell you want I'll start a rugging thread with a barefoot slant that will cheer us up.
 
Gamebird said:
It's been illegal to pith cattle for human consumption since the TSE Regs came in 2001.

Some vets have a captive bolt gun, others use a free bullet - a firearms (not shotgun) licence is required. The horse's brain is very small (!) and hard to hit - the angle is crucial which is not always easy to ensure in an animal which may be moving and distressed. It is not just a matter of solely hitting the brain but angling the shot so that the base of the brain is destroyed. Sometimes it does take two shots - this should not be necessarily seen as a measure of incompetence, merely a recognition that you are trying to hit something small, at a particular angle, which is hidden inside a large bony casing (the skull) such that you do not know its exact position when you are firing, and which may be moving.

Although it is possible to euthanase a small horse (or bovine) with a shotgun and large gauge shot it is far from ideal and best reserved for emergencies.
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I agree with this. Also if your not trained it would be more stressful for the horse. Also would you as the person doing the deed on your own horse be in right frame to perform the procedure.
Something like this should be left to the proffessionals
 
MadBlackLab said:
I agree with this. Also if your not trained it would be more stressful for the horse. Also would you as the person doing the deed on your own horse be in right frame to perform the procedure.
Something like this should be left to the proffessionals
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I think it's an interesting discussion, although I would not be in favour of lay people being equipped in this way. I think if we were having this discussion in the Aussie out back, or on my mother-in-law's farm in Canada where her nearest vet is 3 hrs away I might side differently.
 
My husband has a shotgun and there is also a rifle in the gun cabinet (all correct licences held etc) I have nightmares about vets not being able to get through snow or flood and one of our ponies dying a horrendous death ie broken leg or neck, I'd ask my brother in law who is in the army to do it I think, and is trained to shoot properly, bit diffrent to husband who just shoots the odd pheasant. my husband has his own horse and I don't think he would be able to shoot him and I ceartinily wouldn't be able to.
 
buddy's mummy said:
we do as other half is a farmer, so if Buddy ever needed immediate slaughter then my partner is on hand. he got a 410
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I hope to god your OH never attempts to dispatch anything larger than a rabbit with a 410.

My OH has shotguns and a 243 rifle and would never dream of going anywhere near livestock or horses with it. I would want an experienced vet with a boltgun - my dad has been in livestock his whole life and never had to shoot anything himself - a good vet is what you need.

At the very least you are going to cause your horse a great deal of stress if you attempt to shoot it yourself.

I honestly don't think people should be allowed a shotgun licence with such ridiculous thoughts. I hope this post is a joke.
 
RunToEarth said:
I hope to god your OH never attempts to dispatch anything larger than a rabbit with a 410.

My OH has shotguns and a 243 rifle and would never dream of going anywhere near livestock or horses with it. I would want an experienced vet with a boltgun - my dad has been in livestock his whole life and never had to shoot anything himself - a good vet is what you need.

At the very least you are going to cause your horse a great deal of stress if you attempt to shoot it yourself.

I honestly don't think people should be allowed a shotgun licence with such ridiculous thoughts. I hope this post is a joke.
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Agree fully
 
We have a bolt gun onsite and neighbours and family members with a whole array of firearms and the experience of using them. Vets can take hours to arrive. Knackermen are generally quicker but would take 30mins minimum. When it comes down to it, I find the act quite easy - if the animal is suffering that much, all you want to do is put them out of it. That said, we have not used the bolt gun. The instructions are in german and it's been quicker and more efficient to simply use a large knife!! I haven't had occasion to think about any of this with the horses but they would be no different for me.
 
I would say its a bad idea. A large horse that was euthanised at our yard (he was very old) because he was having a fit was given an injection, which wasn't strong enough. This caused him to be pretty much permanently drowsy so had to be shot humanely through the head, which killed him instantly.
 
DanceswithCows said:
That said, we have not used the bolt gun. The instructions are in german
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? Anyone who is reliant on instructions should not be in possession of a gun.

I think this is the most odd thread I've seen in a long time. I think you need to review your vet/knackerman, I have never had to wait more than 20mins max.
 
You do need a licence for a gun AND a humane killer. Even few vets have a licence for a humane killer. The average Joe Blogs won't have one.
 
Knackerman would be first option, if they couldn't come quick enough I would ring good friend who is former knackerman and still regularly culls deer and similar both in UK and France. He has a gun which would fell an elephant. I have witnessed him destroy an out of control bull which escaped from pen. He did offer to pts our old horse with this gun if we had wanted a familiar face.
 
We used to keep a gun, and when a goat was attacked by a dog the neighbour came and shot it for us - dad must have been out.

My brother keeps a gun on his property. He uses it for feral dogs.

I would really struggle killing an animal, but if it is a farm, I think it is a good idea to have a gun on a farm. Even better if you know how to use it. Could always ask the vet what you should do in that circumstance, I am sure they could advise.
 
RunToEarth said:
? Anyone who is reliant on instructions should not be in possession of a gun.

I think this is the most odd thread I've seen in a long time. I think you need to review your vet/knackerman, I have never had to wait more than 20mins max.
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If you know how and where to shoot it's no different using a bolt gun. No great mystery. I've rung all vets in the locality for a suffering steer and none could come inside 'a few hours'. I use the nearest knackerman to me but it will always take him an absolute minimum of 30mins to get here. I agree, very odd thread indeed :S
 
My biggest concern on this thread is everyone talking about GUNS. It isn't a gun you need, it's a rifle.
My OH had done it several times but would never ever consider a shotgun. It has to be a rifle. He had to also kill a dog once and used a rifle. The effects of a cartridge compared to a bullet would be devastating
Now, he has a shooting business and does a lot of stalking so is a good aim. But, that's irrelevant, you don't shoot a horse from half a mile. It needs to be standing very still so you can accurately shoot (as game bird said) from right next to it.

If people think you should shoot a horse with a shotgun then basically you shouldn't even be considering it!
 
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