Do British ride more harshly than US?

[MagicMelon]

Ive been watching quite a bit of the American shows on ClipMyHorse, especially the working hunter classes but also the lower level showjumping. I know they ride generally in a far more relaxed manner but they are such a stark contrast to how we ride here and I wonder why that is? We seem a lot harsher and more involved in how we ride here, our horses seem much buzzier. I personally think the hunters there look half dead with no spark left in their eyes but hey they do look very chilled which is ultimately nicer to watch.

 

[ponynutz]

I think the British tend to take the view - effective riding isn't always pretty. That and probably horse breeds to a certain extent especially given the shitstain ponies most of us grew up riding.

 

[Fabel]

So I don’t agree, I think it looks awful and the riders don’t have the first clue how to engage the horses hind quarters nor see a stride and the horses look doped/exhausted

 

[shortstuff99]

Well the reining society in America has just said the they will now allow doping before classes so it is no guarantee that they are quiet through training alone....

 

[SilverLinings]

Well the reining society in America has just said the they will now allow doping before classes so it is no guarantee that they are quiet through training alone....

What the actual ***?! How can a sports society in a developed and educated nation think that routine doping isn't a massive step backwards in terms of welfare. Also, what's the point as any horse could be quiet with enough sedative so what exactly is it achieving?

 

[smolmaus]

What the actual ***?! How can a sports society in a developed and educated nation think that routine doping isn't a massive step backwards in terms of welfare. Also, what's the point as any horse could be quiet with enough sedative so what exactly is it achieving?

Had a Google and found this article which presents an interesting pov. They're "allowing" doping with one particular substance as a compromise to get through enforceable legislation on more widespread doping. Sounds like an absolute mess.

 

[greenbean10]

I don't really like how lots of Americans ride (although I also don't like how lots of British people ride).

It's so slow, every stride has to be perfect, every change perfect etc. The horses just look to me as though they're all on their forehand and bored out of their minds. I follow a couple of American riders on Instagram who post 'fail' videos and the 'fail' is them reaching the fence 5" further away than optimum. I know that won't be everyone but I just find it so boring.

I'd rather see someone actually go for it, even if it looks a bit more messy!

Although having said that, there is a limit to that as lots of kids on ponies over here I find quite uncomfortable to watch!

 

[MagicMelon]

Well obviously if theyre being doped thats horrific. Assuming they're not... as surely they wouldnt jump horses who were at all doped?? Anyway, what Im saying though is that yes perhaps the horses arent engaged etc. there but surely we can admit that they generally look more chilled whereas here I think we see it all the time horses getting yanked in the mouth, spurs dug in, smacks when it goes wrong, all of which leads to some pretty riled up stressed looking horses? From the horses point of view Id much rather be ridden in those US classes like that than here. Im very much a British rider and did struggle to ride so relaxed when I used to ride in the states. I just think they perhaps teach their horses with the aim for them to be more relaxed than we seem to here? We're not really that bothered as long as the horse jumps a nice round whether than be workers or a pure SJ class.

 

[BBP]

I think hunter jumper riders get less in the mouth than UK riders, way less fiddling and faffing with their hands (obviously loads of UK riders have beautiful hands but because we place emphasis on being ‘on the bit’ those of us at lower levels often stuggle with contact). But my experience of hunter jumpers (a long time ago so no idea, I’m hoping it has changed now) was also that most in my circle had very little variety in their lives, were bored senseless, many higher energy horses were ridden for hours or doped before they went in the ring and the riders could be strong with whip and spur (my trainer when I was a kid was very heavy with both at home). The horses looked relaxed and were gorgeous to ride, but often felt numb, like they couldnt have their own opinion or express anything.

(My experience was in the Midwest, St Louis, Germantown, plus Flagstaff and the HITS Indio winter circuit as well as Vancouver and the Pacific Northwest, so I saw quite a good cross section of the hunter jumper circuit).

 

[ponynutz]

Hunter jumpers to be fair is all about equitation and technique i.e., points for 'pretty' riding. Seeing American showjumpers and eventers I follow on various social media it looks much more 'British' than hunter jumper riders do.

 

[fetlock]

There was a lovely dun pony which won an US hunter pony championship the other month - couldn’t fault its way of going or its rider. Both a joy to watch.
I agree though that some of them do look lifeless and I’m not always keen on the style of riding in those classes. If that way of going and style of riding also works over the much higher WHP fences over here too though then fair dos. (Am aware they’re judged on different criteria)

 

[Tarragon]

I have a feeling that the extremes of most of the American riding disciplines are not kind to the horse and I don't think that there is a UK equivalent; from the extreme action and speed of the barrel racing turns, the roping, that weird one when they back at speed, and the weird gated ones such as the poor walking horses, to the sort of lifeless robotic ones. I have a feeling that these horses do not have a healthy or long life. BUT I am not speaking from experience or much knowledge; only judging by what I see around me.
Possibly the average trail rider and horse owner might be slightly kinder to their horse than some of the UK equivalents because of the laid back style of riding.
I follow a great man on FB who breaks in young horses, cowboy-style, and he is s true horseman. Possibly like Monty Roberts before he became all commercialised.

 

[j1ffy]

There have been quite a few threads on here about UK vs US riding that you might find interesting:

How different is the horse world in the UK than the USA?

Eventing costs UK vs. USA

Just when you thought your show was expensive...article from USA re: Pony Finals

Difference between English and American English riding

It's certainly very different and there are elements each tradition could learn from the other!!

 

[rara007]

On average, I’d say so yes. I’m very conscious of it if I ride someone’s horse there to warn them I’m European trained!

 

[shortstuff99]

I do like the more forward style of US Show Jumping riding compared to British riding.

 

[Orangehorse]

I don't think you can generalise, and as someone above said, in the UK we learn by sticking on naughty little ponies, whereas in the USA a beginner would be put on a quiet older horse. Also in the UK we mostly aim to go jumping and galloping and probably only later go for the more refined riding. (I'm generalising!)

There are many different disciplines in the USA, from Hunter Equitation where going smoothly is awarded points, to Western where the origin is the horse as a means of transport and a work tool, to the Park riding where putting on a show with a gaited breed - then there are the usual eventer, show jumping, dressage and leisure riders. So there is probably more variety in the USA, and there are some excellent riders and trainers in all of the disciplines.

 

[LEC]

It’s a very different system. What you are looking at is the outcome of a professionalised barn system. They never ride without a trainer and they will jump every single day on barn horses as well as their own. They are drilled - horses and riders.

Horses they want a very specific way of going so most don’t even meet the criteria and this is why they are worth £££.

The Americans have a massive issue xc if they have been equitation riders first as not used to making decisions or riding by feel. Then the position needs a lot of work as well.

The best riders I think are the kiwis and Australian and interesting they have a good mix of European and American systems as have equitation and jumping as the biggest sports. They ride in light seat but are more pragmatic as not so drilled so reactive and ride with feel.

 

[eahotson]

I haven't done much western, only in this country and we don't have really good trainers where I live.I did go to the Deptfords once or twice and found them amazing.Most people would benefit from doing some westrn riding with a genuinely good trainer, even if they want to ride/compete English.Its the lightness and subtly I loved.

 

[Lexi 123]

Uk and Ireland doesn’t have a good training standard for people learning how to ride. Unfortunately most Europe and USA actually considered uk and Ireland bad riders because the way some of use ride. We don’t focus enough on riding position and jumping position when we learn how to ride. Some people don’t even do jumping position when they are going over the jump. In other countries you wouldn’t be able to get away being a bad rider but in the uk and Ireland it’s much more normalized. So yeah we do ride harsher but we just don’t have the setup and we need to be strict on our qualifications and training for our riding instructions for our future generations of horses riders.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I have no comment on the UK vs USA debate, of which there has been lots on this forum and which rarely ends amicably. Both sides of the pond have great bits and bad bits, and some bits bad to the extreme.

One thing I do think when I see the hunter jumper classes , an example of which I have linked below, is that they seem to be in a light seat but with a hell of a lot of weight forward, this is just one example but it seems to be quite common, they also don't sit up over a fence as much as we are taught to here. I can't help but think if the horse refused or tripped on landing then the rider would have no chance of saving themselves.
Not saying it's wrong, just an observation on the different styles. The commentary says that she has won over $2m which is an unimaginable amout of money here, but I think their class prize finds are 100x what we see here at similar levels.

 

[Orangehorse]

Well what a sweetie! That is a showing competition not a jumping competition though, and the rider is doing what the judges want to see.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I think there are extremes in both countries but when I’ve visited my sister in the states over the last 30 odd years the boarding barns she has either run or been a boarder at have had a variety of riders of varying abilities and disciplines much like livery yards here. Some have spent a lot on fancy dressage horses and trainers and others are the equivalent to happy hackers. There is also where she lives in Virginia a keen hunting element. None seem to fit the stereotypes often described on this forum.

Plenty of kids have ponies and do pony club just like we do too. From what I’ve observed more people have land as it’s cheaper than here so keep at home and DIY isn’t as common. But as the USA is so vast it’s hard to generalise.

 

[greenbean10]

I have no comment on the UK vs USA debate, of which there has been lots on this forum and which rarely ends amicably. Both sides of the pond have great bits and bad bits, and some bits bad to the extreme.

One thing I do think when I see the hunter jumper classes , an example of which I have linked below, is that they seem to be in a light seat but with a hell of a lot of weight forward, this is just one example but it seems to be quite common, they also don't sit up over a fence as much as we are taught to here. I can't help but think if the horse refused or tripped on landing then the rider would have no chance of saving themselves.
Not saying it's wrong, just an observation on the different styles. The commentary says that she has won over $2m which is an unimaginable amout of money here, but I think their class prize finds are 100x what we see here at similar levels.

Nice horse but I’d rather watch paint dry! ?

 

[SibeliusMB]

I've commented on most of the threads linked above, but as a Yank here in the UK and having grown up in the US system, here are some of my observations and some facts. First off, what is called "hunter jumper" on this forum is not actually a discipline. The hunter/jumper label in North America actually refers to three separate disciplines (show hunters, equitation, and show jumpers) that all run at the same competitions. Usually these venues have multiple arenas and will be running these various divisions over the course of the competition. Most horses specialize in one (you have some unicorns that do two or even three divisions, often referred to as a "three ring horse"), while riders might ride in any or all over the course of the show. That's why North Americans refer to themselves as a "hunter rider," or an "Eq rider" or a "jumper rider," but would rarely say "I'm a hunter jumper."

I'm not commenting on the gaited horses/western horses/other extremes of horse stuff in the US because I have no experience with them and I don't understand any of it.

So I don’t agree, I think it looks awful and the riders don’t have the first clue how to engage the horses hind quarters nor see a stride and the horses look doped/exhausted

Depending what division and level of competition you're watching, I promise you the riders absolutely do know how to engage. And as for the 3' hunters and below...this might come as a shock, but most horses don't need to be in a high level of physical engagement or outline to step over 3'/.95 and below. It's crazy, but true.

I don't really like how lots of Americans ride (although I also don't like how lots of British people ride).

It's so slow, every stride has to be perfect, every change perfect etc. The horses just look to me as though they're all on their forehand and bored out of their minds. I follow a couple of American riders on Instagram who post 'fail' videos and the 'fail' is them reaching the fence 5" further away than optimum. I know that won't be everyone but I just find it so boring.

I'd rather see someone actually go for it, even if it looks a bit more messy!

I agree it is boring, that is why I don't show in the hunter divisions anymore. I love the skill that 8-10 perfect distances, perfect changes, and perfectly picture around the course requires, but after watching 10 rounds, I walk away out of sheer boredom. It might look boring, but that takes a LOT of education to pull off. But that's the hunter and maybe the equitation die-hards. The jumper folks (same as "show jumping" here in the UK) are way more fun. But I will say, most jumper riders spend their earlier years in the hunter and equitation divisions, so they bring that foundation to the jumper ring, resulting in usually smoother, more efficient rounds that also happen to be more visually pleasing to watch.

I watched the Working Hunters at Royal Windsor this year and was genuinely disappointed in the riding that I saw. Riders hanging on mouths/backs over jumps, horses running around on the wrong leg or disunited and on their forehand, extremely deep chips and flyers into the one-stride, etc. In two hours I saw maybe three rounds that were truly polished from start to finish with consistent distances, correct leg around corners (even if they had to execute a simple change), and well balanced riding. Still a very different aesthetic (tack, attire, outline, etc) to what I'm used to from the US hunters, but at minimum I would have thought distances/balance/legs etc were the basic expectations of WH classes here in the UK. The county shows were about the same.

To clarify yes, I've seen some absolutely lovely riding and lovely horses in the UK too that I quite admire.

Well obviously if theyre being doped thats horrific. Assuming they're not... as surely they wouldnt jump horses who were at all doped?? Anyway, what Im saying though is that yes perhaps the horses arent engaged etc. there but surely we can admit that they generally look more chilled whereas here I think we see it all the time horses getting yanked in the mouth, spurs dug in, smacks when it goes wrong, all of which leads to some pretty riled up stressed looking horses? From the horses point of view Id much rather be ridden in those US classes like that than here. Im very much a British rider and did struggle to ride so relaxed when I used to ride in the states. I just think they perhaps teach their horses with the aim for them to be more relaxed than we seem to here? We're not really that bothered as long as the horse jumps a nice round whether than be workers or a pure SJ class.

There absolutely have been doping scandals in the US hunter/jumper world. Outright drugs were used at one point decades ago then outlawed, more recently magnesium supplements were given because it was thought it helped keep the horses on a more even keel. Not sure if that's still a thing, but there is a robust drug testing program at all USEF rated horse shows, and there is a zero doping policy in the hunter/jumper divisions (hunter divisions, equitation divisions, jumper divisions). And yes, horses were lunged excessively which required more stewards to monitor warmup/lunge arenas on the show grounds to enforce time limits. The lunging issues probably still happen to some degree, and shouldn't. My one complaint with the North American (because Canadians have basically the same system) hunter divisions is that it is SO idealistic these days, riders SO focused on perfection, that they almost don't know what to do with a fresh horse....and they ought to.

That said...A good hunter that is well rested and well ridden is probably the smoothest, most polished picture you will ever find under tack. And just because they're not going around in a dressage-type outline on tight contact or running around with their tail on fire does not mean they're not engaged behind.

I think hunter jumper riders get less in the mouth than UK riders, way less fiddling and faffing with their hands (obviously loads of UK riders have beautiful hands but because we place emphasis on being ‘on the bit’ those of us at lower levels often stuggle with contact). But my experience of hunter jumpers (a long time ago so no idea, I’m hoping it has changed now) was also that most in my circle had very little variety in their lives, were bored senseless, many higher energy horses were ridden for hours or doped before they went in the ring and the riders could be strong with whip and spur (my trainer when I was a kid was very heavy with both at home). The horses looked relaxed and were gorgeous to ride, but often felt numb, like they couldnt have their own opinion or express anything.

(My experience was in the Midwest, St Louis, Germantown, plus Flagstaff and the HITS Indio winter circuit as well as Vancouver and the Pacific Northwest, so I saw quite a good cross section of the hunter jumper circuit).

Your observations are accurate. There are definitely trainers and programs that catered to the "scared amateur" and would do whatever was necessary for the 40-50-something female horse show client to feel safe and happy at the horse show. Many clients in that description don't WANT to hack out, go for an XC school, or have variety, and that's sad to me. But there are those types of trainers/barns, and there are others who do provide variety by going out hacking, doing hunter paces, having gymkhanas at Halloween or Christmas, encouraging clients to clinic with other trainers or even bringing a dressage trainer on the farm for monthly lessons. That was my last barn in Kentucky before I moved to the UK. They do exist.

 

[SibeliusMB]

part deux....

Hunter jumpers to be fair is all about equitation and technique i.e., points for 'pretty' riding. Seeing American showjumpers and eventers I follow on various social media it looks much more 'British' than hunter jumper riders do.

Equitation divisions are meant to reward correct riding, not just pretty riding. Equitation divisions ask numerous questions (ie. bending lines, different striding requirements, counter canter between specified fences, hand gallops to jumps, alternate tracks for more points, etc) that require effective decision making and execution, as well as command of flatwork (lengthening/shortening, counter leads, flying changes, etc) and jumping techniques. If you're lucky, you'll make it through the first and second rounds at the yearly finals and get to come back a third time to do all that again....over 3'6" and no stirrups. Probably on another competitor's horse that you've never ridden before.

Just sitting there and looking pretty doesn't cut it in equitation. Grassroots/unaffiliated shows might get away with that in the 2'6" equitation divisions, but anything on the rated/affiliated level is going to require good riding, period (and a nice horse, yes). That said, effective riding positions also happen to look pretty because form follows function. Sure, some let the position slide a little doing the jumpers because they're not being subjectively judged.

It’s a very different system. What you are looking at is the outcome of a professionalised barn system. They never ride without a trainer and they will jump every single day on barn horses as well as their own. They are drilled - horses and riders.

Some riders and some horses in some barns are drilled, not all. The ones at the highest levels in the USEF rated world? Yes. The smart trainers also manage those horse's show schedules carefully and program downtime in too. The riders ride a lot, but they certainly won't jump "every single day" because when are they supposed to learn their 2nd/3rd level dressage movements that are required in their equitation tests?

The Americans have a massive issue xc if they have been equitation riders first as not used to making decisions or riding by feel. Then the position needs a lot of work as well.

Ok...not sure where your firsthand experience and observations come from, but as a longtime US equitation rider who transitioned to the hunt field and then to eventing, this simply isn't true. Not used to making decisions? Look at my explanation above about equitation tests and courses. Eq riders have to make decisions all the time, and have contingency plans for when that goes wrong in the moment, like any good rider in any discipline. Riding by feel? Many of those kids have spent a lot of time catch riding unfamiliar horses in all three divisions (hunters, jumpers, equitaiton). Hell, even having a hunter, equitation horse, and jumper at the same horse show means riding three different styles, probably all in the same afternoon. Trust me, feel is not their problem. They would just need to be taught how to apply it in the unfamiliar XC environment.

Their problem would be riding over variable terrain over natural obstacles, getting more comfortable with drops and up banks, corners, arrowheads, etc that they haven't seen before. Riders at that USEF rated equitation level would need time and expert guidance, yes, but to say they're all going to have massive issues is very ignorant.

There have been successful 4* and 5* event riders who started off their careers riding in the equitation divisions. They seem to be doing just fine and just had the usual learning curve of a new discipline, new challenges of riding over terrain, solid obstacles, and general XC education. That was my experience as well, this is about to sound super braggy. I spent one season out live hunting in Virginia (fox hunting hotbed) and taking lessons with a 4* eventer to get the knowledge I needed that I lacked from jumping in a flat arena most of my life. I was told to keep my shoulders back, stay in the middle....my equitation trainer had long since rid me of my ducking habit so staying up off the horse's neck and using an independent hand wasn't an issue... and then went out and debuted at Training Level at USEA recognized events (roughly BE100 equivalent). From firsthand experience: this equitation rider did just fine transitioning in only a matter of weeks, my position needed only minor tweaks, and I was complemented on my sympathetic riding style by both the hunt staff and the event trainer. So....

I think there are extremes in both countries but when I’ve visited my sister in the states over the last 30 odd years the boarding barns she has either run or been a boarder at have had a variety of riders of varying abilities and disciplines much like livery yards here. Some have spent a lot on fancy dressage horses and trainers and others are the equivalent to happy hackers. There is also where she lives in Virginia a keen hunting element. None seem to fit the stereotypes often described on this forum.

Plenty of kids have ponies and do pony club just like we do too. From what I’ve observed more people have land as it’s cheaper than here so keep at home and DIY isn’t as common. But as the USA is so vast it’s hard to generalise.

Thank you for this, sincerely. We have pony club, we have recreational/trail riders (happy hackers), we have pretty hopelessly untalented but extremely kind, loving amateur riders who dedicate everything they have to trying to do better by their horses, we have showing-obsessed riders who primarily care only about the competition, we have amazingly well trained and talented riders, we have riders who are terrible and refuse to get help and are an absolute nuissance to their horses. We have it all and everything in between.

Is your sister near Middleburg, VA by chance? Although most of VA is high hunt country, I lived/worked in Middleburg for four years and that's the hunting hub.

 

[Fabel]

@SibeliusMB so but you are wrong. You have been conditioned to believe what you do having come from the US. It’s very very obvious that you are just trying to convince other members that it’s not American ignorants. It’s very clear from all videos that the level of riding that’s not western or top international competition is far behind other parts of the world.

 

[LEC]

My xc knowledge comes from watching hours of xc footage in America from clinics and events and from speaking to well renowned trainers who do stints in America. Lucinda would be the first to tell you that she spends significant time on position and being able to ride reactively as too much time spent being pretty, in an arena and in forward seat.

https://eventingnation.com/10-takeaways-from-a-clinic-with-lucinda-green/

Btw I am not suggesting English hunting seat is any better and tbh I would rather see the rider falling off over the horses shoulder when something goes wrong all day long from forward seat than I would being socked in the mouth from English hunt seat. Adults in uk don’t get enough education and from speaking to top trainers from Uk who teach in USA, the Americans are overdrilled and don’t like going eventing without their trainer to warm them up etc.

Neither are better, just different.

I watch riders like McLain and Lillie Keenan who all did serious amounts of Eq and then watch them in jumpers and they ride differently, much more forwards and pacy in jumpers and more upright. Tori Colvin is always interesting as again rides very differently from hunter to jumper.

 

[BBP]

part deux....


Equitation divisions are meant to reward correct riding, not just pretty riding. Equitation divisions ask numerous questions (ie. bending lines, different striding requirements, counter canter between specified fences, hand gallops to jumps, alternate tracks for more points, etc) that require effective decision making and execution, as well as command of flatwork (lengthening/shortening, counter leads, flying changes, etc) and jumping techniques. If you're lucky, you'll make it through the first and second rounds at the yearly finals and get to come back a third time to do all that again....over 3'6" and no stirrups. Probably on another competitor's horse that you've never ridden before.

Just sitting there and looking pretty doesn't cut it in equitation. Grassroots/unaffiliated shows might get away with that in the 2'6" equitation divisions, but anything on the rated/affiliated level is going to require good riding, period (and a nice horse, yes). That said, effective riding positions also happen to look pretty because form follows function. Sure, some let the position slide a little doing the jumpers because they're not being subjectively judged.


Some riders and some horses in some barns are drilled, not all. The ones at the highest levels in the USEF rated world? Yes. The smart trainers also manage those horse's show schedules carefully and program downtime in too. The riders ride a lot, but they certainly won't jump "every single day" because when are they supposed to learn their 2nd/3rd level dressage movements that are required in their equitation tests?


Ok...not sure where your firsthand experience and observations come from, but as a longtime US equitation rider who transitioned to the hunt field and then to eventing, this simply isn't true. Not used to making decisions? Look at my explanation above about equitation tests and courses. Eq riders have to make decisions all the time, and have contingency plans for when that goes wrong in the moment, like any good rider in any discipline. Riding by feel? Many of those kids have spent a lot of time catch riding unfamiliar horses in all three divisions (hunters, jumpers, equitaiton). Hell, even having a hunter, equitation horse, and jumper at the same horse show means riding three different styles, probably all in the same afternoon. Trust me, feel is not their problem. They would just need to be taught how to apply it in the unfamiliar XC environment.

Their problem would be riding over variable terrain over natural obstacles, getting more comfortable with drops and up banks, corners, arrowheads, etc that they haven't seen before. Riders at that USEF rated equitation level would need time and expert guidance, yes, but to say they're all going to have massive issues is very ignorant.

There have been successful 4* and 5* event riders who started off their careers riding in the equitation divisions. They seem to be doing just fine and just had the usual learning curve of a new discipline, new challenges of riding over terrain, solid obstacles, and general XC education. That was my experience as well, this is about to sound super braggy. I spent one season out live hunting in Virginia (fox hunting hotbed) and taking lessons with a 4* eventer to get the knowledge I needed that I lacked from jumping in a flat arena most of my life. I was told to keep my shoulders back, stay in the middle....my equitation trainer had long since rid me of my ducking habit so staying up off the horse's neck and using an independent hand wasn't an issue... and then went out and debuted at Training Level at USEA recognized events (roughly BE100 equivalent). From firsthand experience: this equitation rider did just fine transitioning in only a matter of weeks, my position needed only minor tweaks, and I was complemented on my sympathetic riding style by both the hunt staff and the event trainer. So....



Thank you for this, sincerely. We have pony club, we have recreational/trail riders (happy hackers), we have pretty hopelessly untalented but extremely kind, loving amateur riders who dedicate everything they have to trying to do better by their horses, we have showing-obsessed riders who primarily care only about the competition, we have amazingly well trained and talented riders, we have riders who are terrible and refuse to get help and are an absolute nuissance to their horses. We have it all and everything in between.

Is your sister near Middleburg, VA by chance? Although most of VA is high hunt country, I lived/worked in Middleburg for four years and that's the hunting hub.

I forgot about the stirrupless aspects of my equitation classes, that brings back memories! I’m always conflicted on these threads because my view on the horses experience looking back now wasn’t positive, bored horses with little variety doing the same thing day in and day out (nothing made ‘my’ hunter pony happier than the day he was allowed to go XC schooling at Flagstaff) but I do think I was a better rider as a child for learning to ride in the states than learning here. I did a huge amount of work with no reins and stirrups even as a tiny kid. I was never balancing on their faces with my hands, my seat was lighter and I was able to adjust strides and ride flying changes at 8 years old on ‘average’ horses. When I returned aged 11 I would say I was a better rider than most of my cohorts who had continued to learn over here, and my standard declined once I was back. And when I say the trainers were strong with the whip over there, they weren’t exactly putting the horse first here either. Now it’s down the line and my view is more about how does the horse feel about what I am asking, and I don’t think that was a question that was much considered on either side of the pond when I was younger.

I think all the US side of equitation really lacks is engagement of the riders core a little more to bring the spine more to neutral and the body weight slightly further back to lighten the forehand (certainly when I was young it looked a little more bum out with a curve in the lower back, I got told off a lot for tipping forwards when I returned from the states).

 

[lannerch]

The Americans also back their horses a lot earlier , common age is 2!

 

[SibeliusMB]

@SibeliusMB so but you are wrong. You have been conditioned to believe what you do having come from the US. It’s very very obvious that you are just trying to convince other members that it’s not American ignorants. It’s very clear from all videos that the level of riding that’s not western or top international competition is far behind other parts of the world.

But you, presumably brought up in the UK system, couldn't possibly have been conditioned to believe yours is The One True System and fail to see it has its shortcomings too?

At no time in any of my posts have I said the North American style is better. As LEC said, it's different. Different style for different horses for different purposes.

Looking forward to sharing your Low-Mid Level International Riding Standards of Greatness with all of US and Canada to tell everyone how woefully incompetent they are compared to the rest of the world.