Do I put my horse out on share? Unbiased opinions wanted!

BethanT

BethanT

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A little background is needed for this one, so apologies in advance for the long post.

I have been toying with the idea of putting my 16hh 8 year old gelding on share to a girl at the same livery yard as me. She currently rides him for me when I am away or if I am busy with work, and shes been riding him more often as her pony is out of action due to a field injury. She's a good little jockey, but shes had no offical lessons and so some of the basics are missing. So as a benefit to my horse I started to pay for her to have flatwork lessons with my intructor once a month or so. Shes loved it! Her riding has already improved, and I am seeing the benefit in my horse too, as she is now riding him properly when I am not there.

I know she has been looking to move up off her pony, as she was meant to be having a schoolmaster from another livery, that has now been postponed and not looking like the owner will be ready to sell him until the end of the winter season. To say shes a bit upset is an understatement. She's gutted as she was really looking forward to it, and has been all Summer as she was initially expecting to get him in October.

I have recently split up with my long term partner, as a result I know going into Winter will be a struggle fincially as I will have to take over the mortgage payments on the house, last Winter I was paying over £400 some months for 2 horses to be in stables, and cost of hay and bedding. This Winter I will only have 1 horse in, but still aware that the fincial burden could still cripple me, and I don't want to be in a position where if something drastic happens (God forbid) I cannot afford the Vets bill or other associated costs (I am lucky that my Vet is happy for payment plans but besides the point).

My other concern (and this is probably more of an issue than the money) is that my other young horse needs to have some attention on her, but I have been struggling to commit to her as she needs to much extra work and thought put into her, I can't just wang some tack on and go for a hack like I can him yet. Not helped by the fact he is going so well, its easy to just get on and get out on him, both competing and at home. If I put him on share or loan I can focus on her through Winter and really get her going, then once they are both at the same level it will be much easier to keep them both ticking over.

All sounds like a no brainer so far yeah?

Well no, see said 16 Thoroughbred gelding has had various lameness issues behind last year, including a tear in the ligament over his SI. So he needs a certain type of work (hence the reason for paying for teenage girl to have lessons) for him to stay correctly muscled and fit as well as encourage the correct frame and posture to strengthen his weaknesses. He also is not the type who can be left for 2 weeks then jumped back on again and start where he left off. Not because he's an idiot, but because of said aformentioned lameness history - I would be too worried that he woudl tie up or go lame. Now the only good thing about this is that both the girl and her mum know all of this as they were there last year, and know what I have been through to get him right, and she does ride him consideratly when they go out hacking. She doesn't bomb around the fields with the ponies etc.

I also don't want to stop riding him all together, he is so lovely to ride, and just coming into his element. I don't want to just stop after all the work I have done to get him where he is. Hence I would rather do a share than a full loan. I also think this may suit the girl and her mum better as they already have 2 ponies (one for teenager and other for younger daughter) and money isn't in abundance.

So I suppose my question is, what are the real pros and cons of this? How do I go about setting up the boundries as such, who can ride when and compete when etc. How much do I charge? One horse is on grass livery at £15 and the other stable at £25, but I can choose who I keep in over night when, so I could effectively say his livery was £15 even if he lived in (probably will). Hes pretty cheap to keep, and if they opted to winter him out he would cope, and wouldn't need feeding up much (one of those rare TB's who is a good doer!).
I haven't spoken to anyone about this, so I need some fresh ears/eyes to be able to ask the questions I hadn't maybe thought of etc.

So thank you for getting this far! I may have missed out some info, so I do apologise in advance! I can always reply back to questions of course :)
 
I think sharing sounds like a lot of good points, she not only knows his history she has been reliable over summer already, you keep a couple of days so you can guarantee he is being worked those days, the other advantage is with your young horse you can have a reliable hacking buddy to get her going out with!
 
Roxylola said:
I think sharing sounds like a lot of good points, she not only knows his history she has been reliable over summer already, you keep a couple of days so you can guarantee he is being worked those days, the other advantage is with your young horse you can have a reliable hacking buddy to get her going out with!
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It does all seem like it has the potential to go really well! I just have no idea how to bring the subject up. I mentioned it to her mum a few months back, before the other schoolmaster came onto the scene, but I told her not to say a word to her daughter as I wasn't sure and I didn't want to get her hopes up (unlike what has now happened with the other horse).

I just need guidance on what is fair to charge. I will carry on paying for his insurance, feed and supplments etc with no quibbles. I think going halves on shoeing is fair, and I suppose livery would be dependant on if they would prefer him in or out....
 
It sounds like a good idea in your situation, I would write a contract stating the boundaries of what she can and cant do and what would require your permission outside of the agreement, also make sure she has her own insurance to ride.
I think most loaners pay roughly £10 a day in our area depending on the horses capabilities etc.
The only obvious downfall is if she becomes unreliable or does anything with your horse that puts him at risk but if you know her already you sound fairly certain those points aren't an issue.
 
Farma said:
It sounds like a good idea in your situation, I would write a contract stating the boundaries of what she can and cant do and what would require your permission outside of the agreement, also make sure she has her own insurance to ride.
I think most loaners pay roughly £10 a day in our area depending on the horses capabilities etc.
The only obvious downfall is if she becomes unreliable or does anything with your horse that puts him at risk but if you know her already you sound fairly certain those points aren't an issue.
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Shes really sensible for a 14 year old. Of course she throws her toys out the pram occasionally, and she takes her pony for granted and sometimes doesn't ride her properly, so when pony is naughty or rus out/refuses a jump she can get stroppy (but never takes it out on the pony). Thing is that she knows when she hasn't ridden properly so is more frustrated with herself, but I will admit I've not seen her do anything like that with my boy, because she knows she has to ride him properly.
 
As you're going to be riding him as well I don't think you can charge the full price of his livery. Him being insured is also your choice and not an essential so I wouldn't factor in that cost of her share either.

I'd probably charge £50 a month all in and aim to let her be riding two or three times a week.
 
I would be a bit tempted to have a chat with her mum about it in terms of money etc. I think that although the money is going to help you the time will help you more so I would have an idea of a figure and be prepared to be flexible. If for instance you asked for livery costs based on him living out and leave it at that as all other expenses you would have to cover anyway such as feed hay and shoeing, if they choose to keep him in they could do that but that would be their choice and they would have to cover any associated costs of that.
 
SpringArising said:
As you're going to be riding him as well I don't think you can charge the full price of his livery. Him being insured is also your choice and not an essential so I wouldn't factor in that cost of her share either.

I'd probably charge £50 a month all in and aim to let her be riding two or three times a week.
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Oh no, I wouldn't put the cost of insuring feed or supplements in. It would primarily be shoeing (£75 every 4/5 weeks), and stable costs such as hay and bedding IF they elected him to be in. But I want to establish a set amount for the month so that if they want him in/out it doesn't get confusing.

I think I would be letting her ride 3 times a week, that would be the same each, and he still gets his day off. Could be more depending on my work load at the time.
 
Roxylola said:
I would be a bit tempted to have a chat with her mum about it in terms of money etc. I think that although the money is going to help you the time will help you more so I would have an idea of a figure and be prepared to be flexible. If for instance you asked for livery costs based on him living out and leave it at that as all other expenses you would have to cover anyway such as feed hay and shoeing, if they choose to keep him in they could do that but that would be their choice and they would have to cover any associated costs of that.
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Yes I want to sit down with her and chat just us to be honest. I am more than prepared to be flexible with this as my main concern is the horse. Being helped out with money is a bonus, but ultimately I would be paying anyway if they didn't want to share him.

Has anyone got experiance with something like this? How did it work out. You hear so many horror stories, but then you do hear the occasional sucess stories too.
 
It sounds like a really good idea. A good considerate rider of any age is so valuable. I have a young friend, now 17, who has helped me regularly with my horses, including managing sick note LP, backing E, and bringing on K. She started with email at 13, now 17, and is one of the few people I trust implicitly to look after and ride my horses properly. We never did a financial exchange, we swapped favours, and she did it in part for her own enjoyment and experience. But it worked very well. For a monetary exchange, make sure you have a contract, a set rate, and that she has her own insurance for injury/liability, etc., or is covered on yours. I'd sit down and chat it through with her and her mum, discuss what each of you want from the arrangement and adapt the BHS template to fit.
 
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wyrdsister said:
It sounds like a really good idea. A good considerate rider of any age is so valuable. I have a young friend, now 17, who has helped me regularly with my horses, including managing sick note LP, backing E, and bringing on K. She started with email at 13, now 17, and is one of the few people I trust implicitly to look after and ride my horses properly. We never did a financial exchange, we swapped favours, and she did it in part for her own enjoyment and experience. But it worked very well. For a monetary exchange, make sure you have a contract, a set rate, and that she has her own insurance for injury/liability, etc., or is covered on yours. I'd sit down and chat it through with her and her mum, discuss what each of you want from the arrangement and adapt the BHS template to fit.
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Thank you. I want to go through it all with her mum first as I don't want her getting dissapointed again. I know how much it hurts :(

Also good to know BHS do a template. I will check my insurance re her riding my horses. They are with NFU so pretty sure other riders are covered when riding my horses, at least for 3rd Party.
 
If she's going to be at your yard then it's not high risk. Given your circumstances why not offer a full loan on the understanding the exercise regime needs to be maintained and they need to cover his costs. If he's suitable for her to do what she wants to be doing of course. That frees you from financial hardship or the worry of it, and let's you get on with the young one.
 
In principle it sounds great. I'd have good chat with them and, if they're interested, work out an agreement that suits you both. I think £60 a month to include everything sounds fair for 3 days a week. Them paying you one monthly cost and you covering all the bills is easiest as you all know where you stand. It's too easy for something to fall through the cracks if you each pay for certain things. I think it helps to maintain your 'power' as owner if they pay you rather than paying yard directly for things. That way if there's an issue YO knows he is definitely your horse and you're the person he/she needs to talk to.
 
FfionWinnie said:
If she's going to be at your yard then it's not high risk. Given your circumstances why not offer a full loan on the understanding the exercise regime needs to be maintained and they need to cover his costs. If he's suitable for her to do what she wants to be doing of course. That frees you from financial hardship or the worry of it, and let's you get on with the young one.
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Yes he would still be at my yard. And I would consider full loan, but I'm not ready to not ride him yet. As mentioned before I have put so much blood sweat and tears into getting him where he is, and now hes getting good results out competing, I want to still be able to have fun on him. I know I have the rest of his life yet (hes only 8), but for the first time I am enjoying competing without feeling like I am under pressure.
 
annagain said:
In principle it sounds great. I'd have good chat with them and, if they're interested, work out an agreement that suits you both. I think £60 a month to include everything sounds fair for 3 days a week. Them paying you one monthly cost and you covering all the bills is easiest as you all know where you stand. It's too easy for something to fall through the cracks if you each pay for certain things. I think it helps to maintain your 'power' as owner if they pay you rather than paying yard directly for things. That way if there's an issue YO knows he is definitely your horse and you're the person he/she needs to talk to.
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Totally agree. I would rather them pay me a set amount each month and that is that. May have to be a fraction more than £60 per month though.

I will have to sit and work out what his weekly cost is to me and go from there. But as I mentioned before it would only be shoes and livery.
 
I don't know why you would give them the option of what livery he would go on? he is still your Horse. For financial reasons I would let him live out (could always stable again next winter) it will also save you time so you could focus on your other Horse. I would say half towards shoes and £70 per month is fair for her riding 3 days a week.
 
LaurenBay said:
I don't know why you would give them the option of what livery he would go on? he is still your Horse. For financial reasons I would let him live out (could always stable again next winter) it will also save you time so you could focus on your other Horse. I would say half towards shoes and £70 per month is fair for her riding 3 days a week.
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Either of mine are quite happy to live in or out. I think it would be better for him to stay on grass livery as they have their stables for their current ponies, so if they wanted him in they would put him in theirs and use their bedding etc.

I'm glad you said £70. I was thinking £70/£80 as she will probably ride 4 times a week and will compete too.

Just spoke to her mum and she told me she's been thinking about the same thing over the last few weeks! I will have a chat with the girl on Saturday as we are together for the afternoon doing a job.

Fingers crossed it all works out.
 
BethanT said:
Either of mine are quite happy to live in or out. I think it would be better for him to stay on grass livery as they have their stables for their current ponies, so if they wanted him in they would put him in theirs and use their bedding etc.

I'm glad you said £70. I was thinking £70/£80 as she will probably ride 4 times a week and will compete too.

Just spoke to her mum and she told me she's been thinking about the same thing over the last few weeks! I will have a chat with the girl on Saturday as we are together for the afternoon doing a job.

Fingers crossed it all works out.
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Good luck. It sounds like you're all approaching it with the right attitude and with similar goals in mind so there's no reason why it shouldn't.
 
3 times a week @ £10 - the standard loan amount = would actually work out at £130 a month purely on a loan front.

so when you consider most also ask for half towards shows each time aswell, what your thinking is more than reasonable!

I think I used to pay £90 a month and then half for shoeing for 3 times a week.

Definitely sounds like the right thing for you to do though :) good luck!
 
Loubees said:
3 times a week @ £10 - the standard loan amount = would actually work out at £130 a month purely on a loan front.

so when you consider most also ask for half towards shows each time aswell, what your thinking is more than reasonable!

I think I used to pay £90 a month and then half for shoeing for 3 times a week.

Definitely sounds like the right thing for you to do though :) good luck!
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Crikey! Though still a drop in the ocean compared to the full cost!

I've worked out that his shoes are £942.76 per year and livery is £780 per year based on grass livery. I am happy (and would probably prefer) for him to be out. If they want him in it's on them. So total cost for the year is £1,722.76. Divide by 12 months £143.56. Divide by 2 £71.78.

Thats based on shoes every 4 weeks which he shouldn't need over winter, as he should be on a 5 week cycle then. As he will be out no hay costs. And I will cover feed/supplements and insurance as well as any "other" costs like saddle fit, teeth etc.

So I think £70/£75 is fair?

Can anyone think of anything else that I may need to introduce?

I am going to check with my insureres today about her being covered riding him (and my other horse)
 
BHS have good template for loan agreements, no matter how "friendly" things are I strongly recommend you have it

I saw two best of friends totally rip eachother apart and one get sued 12K for an accident - which if a contract was in place could never of happened

Just stipulate riding at their on risk, hat and boots should always be worn etc etc but that's all covered if you use BHS
 
Does he not need extra hay even if living out? That must be some pretty decent grazing if it doesn't need supplementing through the winter!
 
annagain said:
Does he not need extra hay even if living out? That must be some pretty decent grazing if it doesn't need supplementing through the winter!
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He is a really good doer! They are in a 20 acre field too, but I think there are plans for the heard to be split down and seperate fields. But they don't hay in the field at my yard, and as other people's horses are out there I am not putting my hay out for their horses to scoff. He will get a feed, and poss come in during the day. He will also get a haynet if he is waiting around for any reason.

Our hay is charged at either a day rate or per net, depending on what we decide we want with YM. Or we can source externally, which I am looking to do as a friend is selling some for £2.50 a bale!

I will have a chat with them, as I think it is best to base it on him living out at grass livery, and if I want him in I pay all the costs, or if they want him in they do. But as I said, thankfully he is a good doer. Oh and has looooooads of rugs :D haha
 
Loubees said:
BHS have good template for loan agreements, no matter how "friendly" things are I strongly recommend you have it

I saw two best of friends totally rip eachother apart and one get sued 12K for an accident - which if a contract was in place could never of happened

Just stipulate riding at their on risk, hat and boots should always be worn etc etc but that's all covered if you use BHS
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Oh yes, would definitley get a contract in place for it. We had enough problems when we put my first pony on a trial when we were selling her.
 
Quick update.

We are going ahead with it! Daughter is mega chuffed and excited, especially after recent events with the other horse and its owner (I am so angry and pissed off on her behalf about the situation but thats another matter).

I am actually looking forward to it for them both, will be nice to see him go for someone else, and for the first time in a while (since he has been working properly) I saw her ride him in the school and he was just floating! So nice and uphill. So hard to see the improvements when you're the one riding all the time!

Her mum is also pleased and excited, so all round a win win! We are going to meet for dinner and have a chat with regards to the loan agreement, and come to mutual decisions with some things that I am prepared to be flexible with. Hopefully it all stays like this, nice and friendly :)

Just thought I would let you all know how it has turned out, thank you all for your advise.
 
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