Do we over complicate our horses feeds?

[OldFogie]

I recently emailed one of the larger feed manufacturers to enquire.........

Do you remember the wormer that used to looking blue 100's & 1,000's? It's been withdrawn but was very effective. As the instructions said "feed within 24hrs of mixing" and our pony thought otherwise - I did some enquiring. Eventually got through to a guy who'd never been allowed out of his compound deep inside an oil refinery - his entire raison d'etre was to make anthelmintics!!! Mein Gott, I thought I could talk! It's a wonder the conversation isn't still going on. Very helpful chap though and jollop was safe to use - finally got pony to eat it by adding warm molasses.

 

[YorksG]

I do think that feed companies have a lot to answer for. We tend to feed straights, if any thing needs supplementary feeding. In general we feed forage, with grass nuts (currently agrobs as they are low starch/sugar). If anything needs higher feed value, then they get grass nuts with a higher sugar/starch content, well mashed for those with elderly teeth. We do tend to feed magnesium, from experience this works on our land with our forage source. Newer owners tend not to have the grounding that some of us did, with old school owners who kept down costs and had hard working horses. Peer pressure on livery yards, imo, coupled with slick advertising, has led to a lot of the feeding issues that people have.

 

[OldFogie]

I recently emailed one of the larger feed manufacturers to enquire.........

Do you remember the wormer that used to looking blue 100's & 1,000's? It's been withdrawn but was very effective. As the instructions said "feed within 24hrs of mixing" and our pony thought otherwise - I did some enquiring. Eventually got through to a guy who'd never been allowed out of his compound deep inside an oil refinery - his entire raison d'etre was to make anthelmintics!!! Mein Gott, I thought I could talk! It's a wonder the conversation isn't still going on. Very helpful chap though and jollop was safe to use - finally got pony to eat it by adding warm molasses.

 

[ester]

It is cheap by product still but know they tell us so, so then we can opt to feed it or not.

 

[Follysmum]

I have certainly been guilty over the years of using and trying different feeds and products. Years ago (50 odd ) we only used bran oats and ponies nuts really so when feed/nutrition and other products move on we think we are doing the best for our animals.

I certainly know myself that I have cut back on products and have gone back to more basic natural ways . I feed loads of hay/haylage , very small fibre feeds and only rug the old or clipped ones . I have noticed since my lot have lived like this they are a lot calmer and chilled out .

 

[ihatework]

Well, it has been a while since I've read a label - they used to be a quantity guarrantee slip in the stitching of every bag - so much % protein, etc., all the way down to minimum trace elements BUT NOT what the SOURCE was. I ask you - do you really expect to find 100% grass fed Aberdeen Angus fillet steak in a burgher? Well you might in *aitrose at £39 each! Most of the stuff that was made into animal food used to be cheap by-product and I expect it still is.

Shock horror but in the age of internet, you can find the ingredients of most brands of cubes at the click of a button. A notable exception being Spillers.

 

[DabDab]

Yes probably. I don't feed anything terribly exciting though so can't really comment on whether any of it works.

When my PSSM horse was 4 I took him to a livery yard where feed was included in the livery price. They had two mixes available to choose from, two types of nut, speedibeet and 5 eek3 types of chaff. I said just speedibeet and whichever chaff didn't have added molasses - so in that case would I like the lite chaff or the sugar free chaff. What's the difference??!! I still have no clue, as the staff couldn't tell me. I plumped for the sugar free version, and a year later was told that they weren't buying that anymore as my horse was the only one having it, and the 'lite' chaff had also been stopped for the same reason. So the other 20 or so horses on the yard were merrily fed on mix, nuts, molassed chaff, speedibeet and a lot of supplements, and even though mine was only capable of about 20mins work a day he was still the hardest worked horse on the yard

 

[eggs]

Do you remember the wormer that used to looking blue 100's & 1,000's? It's been withdrawn but was very effective. As the instructions said "feed within 24hrs of mixing" and our pony thought otherwise - I did some enquiring. Eventually got through to a guy who'd never been allowed out of his compound deep inside an oil refinery - his entire raison d'etre was to make anthelmintics!!! Mein Gott, I thought I could talk! It's a wonder the conversation isn't still going on. Very helpful chap though and jollop was safe to use - finally got pony to eat it by adding warm molasses.

Think the blue pellet wormer was called Frisk. It was highly toxic to chickens as my yard owner found out when the horses were wormed with it and he then lost nearly all his chickens.

 

[DabDab]

I think one of the main things is that people concentrate on what they feed in a bucket, rather than what is actually the main source of the horse's nutrition, forage. I think also a lot of owners have an emotional 'need to feed' - so even if they have a fat pony in very light work they still want to give it a bucket of something that looks and smells nice.

There are some horses that are complicated to feed (poor doers who tie up, dentally challenged underweight Cushings ponies etc) and some of the manufactured feeds can be helpful in such cases. But, yes, I agree that the majority of horses can be fed quite simply, as long as decent forage is the basis of the diet.

I have a poor doer who ties up He just gets lots of haylage, and feed is speedibeet and linseed (plus alcar and vit e). (I know it was only an example, I'm being a little facetious )

 

[TGM]

I have a poor doer who ties up He just gets lots of haylage, and feed is speedibeet and linseed (plus alcar and vit e). (I know it was only an example, I'm being a little facetious )

I have one too, who hunts and events. We can't feed him haylage as that seem to be a trigger for the tying-up and won't eat enough beet/linseed during the hunting season to maintain condition, so he gets beet and ERS Pellets. My other three are very simple to feed though!

 

[JFTDWS]

I feed my something in a bucket because it gives them something they're excited to come in to and because it's convenient to chuck a bucket over the door first thing / stops them staring at me with sad, starving eyes as I leave last thing at night. But since it's boring plain chaff with a couple of carrots / whatever horse-suitable stuff I have left over, it neither fuels much of the feed industry, nor causes the ponies anything but joy.

If any of them need a bit more, they get appropriately small amounts of linseed, oil or similar. But that's not overly common!

 

[Annagain]

I'm very sceptical about supplements - and a lot of feeds for that matter. Both mine are 22 and have joint issues so I've tried them on joint supplements and the only difference I notice was to my bank balance.

We try to keep our two on the same diet as it's just easier and we don't have a huge amount of storage space but due to M's sugar intolerance and A being a fussy git it's not possible at the moment.

M has Fast Fibre and Saracen Re-Leve - low starch and sugar as the sugar brings him out in a scabby rash. He usually starts to drop weight around this time of year so we add some linseed but he's still looking good at the moment so we haven't had to yet.

A has the Re-Leve with soaked grass nuts. He won't eat the fast fibre, it's obviously not tasty enough. I tried giving M the grass nuts too but there was too much sugar in them for him.

The ponies I help look after get a handful of fast fibre to make them think coming in is worth it.

It means we're down to three feed bins which is a huge help when you're short on space. If only A would eat Fast Fibre we could lose another one.

 

[ester]

Well there is quite a lot of evidence that most of the ingredients of standard joint supplements may not even get absorbed by the gut, and then they are expected to somehow make it to the right joints in the body!

 

[DabDab]

I have one too, who hunts and events. We can't feed him haylage as that seem to be a trigger for the tying-up and won't eat enough beet/linseed during the hunting season to maintain condition, so he gets beet and ERS Pellets. My other three are very simple to feed though!

Yes, curiously mine is much better on the haylage, but I suspect that that is because the hay that I can get has always tended to be very variable in terms of sugar/general nutritional content. Mine doesn't do hunting-type hard work either, mainly just flatwork (and being run round the field by his hyperactive field companions).

 

[milliepops]

I was brought up by a very old skool horsey lady so fed straights from an early age
Anything fussy had a glob of diluted molasses from an enormous drum

Like JFTD I feed a bucket breakfast to stop the whingey looks when I arrive in the morning. A bowl of soaked grass nuts goes down well and I can ride straight after.

There's a very lovely livery on my yard who is a complete sucker for the adverts and is forever seeking the perfect feed to transform her horse... I suppose it makes her happy and the horse isn't coming to any harm but it reminds me of my late grandma who went through every alternative therapy out there as they all promised, one by one, to cure her rheumatoid arthritis snake oil money grabbers

 

[buzyizzy]

I'm going to go against the grain here.
Mine have Thunderbrooks herbal chaff, micronised linseed, mag ox, seaweed with rosehips, limestone flour and garlic. I've tried the simplifying diet and Charlie ended up with digital pulses and both were quite lethargic. I have no idea exactly why this combination works, but I'm not in any rush to change it. Also, I took them off speedibeet for the first time a few weeks back (usually they have it all winter) and they're looking better and enjoying their feeds more. Clean bowls every day.

 

[TGM]

There's a very lovely livery on my yard who is a complete sucker for the adverts and is forever seeking the perfect feed to transform her horse...

I think this is something you see a lot on forums and on Facebook - people looking to find the perfect feed for all the answers to their horse problems. When often it is quite apparent the solution lies not in feed but elsewhere, and a change of management or appropriate training of horse and/or rider is what is needed.

 

[milliepops]

I think this is something you see a lot on forums and on Facebook - people looking to find the perfect feed for all the answers to their horse problems. When often it is quite apparent the solution lies not in feed but elsewhere, and a change of management or appropriate training of horse and/or rider is what is needed.

Yes. And in some cases (as in this) it's an older horse that is just slowing down and no amount of feed or even training is going to change it!

So often it's a triumph of advertising over common sense. For some reason people trust what's written on a bag more than their own thoughts.

 

[ester]

What I never quite understand is how many people speak to and take the advice of feed company nutritionists. There seem to be very few people who use anyone independent or have I just not come across them?

 

[Leo Walker]

Supplements are pointless without forage analysis, no point adding minerals that could block others if they are in excess and most vitamins come from good forage / hay.

I disagree. I use a very basic one with works with average UK soils. I get forage from different sources so cant test it. I do know the rough profile of the grass though. I've noticed a difference every time I've stopped it as well, so for the £10 a month it costs me I'll carry on until I see a reason not to

 

[Annagain]

What I never quite understand is how many people speak to and take the advice of feed company nutritionists. There seem to be very few people who use anyone independent or have I just not come across them?

I was a bit guilty of this - not like me normally but I explained M's issues to the nutritionist - sugar allergy but needing help to keep weight on, very responsive to grass in that good grass =weight gain, poor grass=weight loss - and she recommended grass pellets. I should have checked the sugar level myself but thought she had taken that into consideration. His legs soon told me otherwise.

Won't be making that mistake again!

 

[OldFogie]

Well there is quite a lot of evidence that most of the ingredients of standard joint supplements may not even get absorbed by the gut, and then they are expected to somehow make it to the right joints in the body!

You have more chance of turning a "Men didn't walk on the Moon" or a 911 Conspiracy freak than you have of convincing a supasuppliment feeder it's a waste of money. All you can hope for is that they don't do any harm.

 

[ester]

yes but for those who didn't observe an improvement at least I can explain why

 

[Yardbird]

What would happen if I gave my horse his daily bute in a jam sandwich , itsp jam, I slice of bread? Then could ditch feed and stick with hay

 

[ycbm]

Well, it has been a while since I've read a label - they used to be a quantity guarrantee slip in the stitching of every bag - so much % protein, etc., all the way down to minimum trace elements BUT NOT what the SOURCE was. I ask you - do you really expect to find 100% grass fed Aberdeen Angus fillet steak in a burgher? Well you might in *aitrose at £39 each! Most of the stuff that was made into animal food used to be cheap by-product and I expect it still is.

I don't expect to find Aberdeen Angus in a McDonald's either, but that doesn't mean their burgers aren't nutritious and safe. I don't care what goes into any food I feed my horse as long as it is safe to eat and they like it, perform well and look good on it. Cheap does not necessarily mean unfit for purpose.

The own brand cubes I feed if I ever buy any have all the source materials listed on the bag.

 

[Cortez]

It is amusing (to me: I have a strange sense of humour) to listen to all the angst and thought that goes into the feed "research" of the owner, and then to discover that it's a fat hairy cob that gets ridden for maybe 20 minutes a week, at a walk. I could almost understand it if it was a high-performance competition horse that was working hard and needed to be at the edge of fitness, but most are leisure horses that if anything need to eat LESS, and shouldn't be getting any more than rough grazing or a bit of hay. People are strange, and gullible...

 

[Cortez]

Yardbird, I stick almost all medicaments in a hollowed out apple, or marmite sandwich.

 

[Yardbird]

Yardbird, I stick almost all medicaments in a hollowed out apple, or marmite sandwich.

Oh will see if he likes marmite tomorrow(bbbut then I will have to share it!!)

 

[silv]

It is amusing (to me: I have a strange sense of humour) to listen to all the angst and thought that goes into the feed "research" of the owner, and then to discover that it's a fat hairy cob that gets ridden for maybe 20 minutes a week, at a walk. I could almost understand it if it was a high-performance competition horse that was working hard and needed to be at the edge of fitness, but most are leisure horses that if anything need to eat LESS, and shouldn't be getting any more than rough grazing or a bit of hay. People are strange, and gullible...

I would tend to agree with you on this, I do however supplement selenium as the pasture in this area is very deficient. Like you said in an earlier post it is dangerous if overdone, so get blood tests yearly to monitor levels.

 

[ester]

I guess it depends if said fat hairy cob has pssm

I actually feel a bit the opposite, I think it’s good more people think about what they are feeding. Though granted some could get away with nowt if their grazing is balanced enough.