PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Our tb and tb crosses are all out unrugged and fine.
Wish someone would tell them they aren't supposed to put on weight over winter
!
Do you agree with keeping horses in 24/7?
- Thread starter loverly
- Start date
Our tb and tb crosses are all out unrugged and fine.
Wish someone would tell them they aren't supposed to put on weight over winter
!PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
They may be well looked after but I still do not think it is natural in any way or good for them and would never keep my own this way.
LegOn
Well-Known Member
Ok normally I would say No. BUT I got a horse that was stabled 24/7 - not saying this was right, he was let into an arena for a roll & that was it. He was impossible to catch so they stabled him 24/7.
So when I bought him, I worked on catching him & started with arena turnout & then into the fields - but saying that, after a few hours, he stands at the gate & neighs to be brought in, even going so far to jump the gate & wander in. He is very used to his sheltered life & wont have it any other way. God knows what I'm going to do when I have to retire him, dont think he will accept living out at night, he doesnt want to be out during the day half the time!!!
Like everything - its horses for courses!!
So when I bought him, I worked on catching him & started with arena turnout & then into the fields - but saying that, after a few hours, he stands at the gate & neighs to be brought in, even going so far to jump the gate & wander in. He is very used to his sheltered life & wont have it any other way. God knows what I'm going to do when I have to retire him, dont think he will accept living out at night, he doesnt want to be out during the day half the time!!!
Like everything - its horses for courses!!
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Ok normally I would say No. BUT I got a horse that was stabled 24/7 - not saying this was right, he was let into an arena for a roll & that was it. He was impossible to catch so they stabled him 24/7.
So when I bought him, I worked on catching him & started with arena turnout & then into the fields - but saying that, after a few hours, he stands at the gate & neighs to be brought in, even going so far to jump the gate & wander in. He is very used to his sheltered life & wont have it any other way. God knows what I'm going to do when I have to retire him, dont think he will accept living out at night, he doesnt want to be out during the day half the time!!!
Like everything - its horses for courses!!
Or it's horses who have been stabled for so long they can't cope with a quick routine change... I doubt many are that way inclined without it having been a routine
LaurenBay
Well-Known Member
No. I think unless the Horse is injured then it is cruel to keep them in.
If my Horse ever needed to be box rested, she would be PTS. Before anyone jumps on me for saying that, you do not know my Mare. she would not cope without turnout. I have kept her in for a day once, she tried to barge out quite a few times, she kicked the wall and she bit me. That was 1 day!! she is not an indoor Horse at all.
If my Horse ever needed to be box rested, she would be PTS. Before anyone jumps on me for saying that, you do not know my Mare. she would not cope without turnout. I have kept her in for a day once, she tried to barge out quite a few times, she kicked the wall and she bit me. That was 1 day!! she is not an indoor Horse at all.
moana
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not, hence all of mine live out 24/7/365
Tinsel Town
Well-Known Member
Nope don't agree with it.
milesjess
Well-Known Member
Definitely not.
Squiggles on Paper
Well-Known Member
No. My horse stays in at night but goes out during the day for about 4 hours (usually a bit more) and then comes in and will either be ridden or in the horse walker or lunged and then left in (he needs to be in in the morning (when he wakes up), sometime in the afternoon (usually before he's worked) for his lunch and then at night he stays in and eats dinner. He is very happy with this.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
HAving worked with many horses over the years that lived in 24/7 I generally feel they were quite content.
They were comfortable, dry, fed regularly, got adlib hay and quality exercise and work. Well groomed so rarely had muscle/back problems. Good sized boxes with clean beds.
They wore a wool lined jute rug in winter and if clipped we added a striped Witney blanket. We had less problems with behaviour as we fed straights and accoridng to type, work load, temperement and current condition. We didn't have horses with laminitis at the drop of a hat. Saddles fitted as we didn't try to add numnah after numnah under the saddle.
We clipped them ONLY if their work load warrented it. They wore simple single jointed snaffle bridles and a cavesson or drop noseband. No breastplates and only a few with a martingale. We rarely ever saw a head shaker.
They were comfortable, dry, fed regularly, got adlib hay and quality exercise and work. Well groomed so rarely had muscle/back problems. Good sized boxes with clean beds.
They wore a wool lined jute rug in winter and if clipped we added a striped Witney blanket. We had less problems with behaviour as we fed straights and accoridng to type, work load, temperement and current condition. We didn't have horses with laminitis at the drop of a hat. Saddles fitted as we didn't try to add numnah after numnah under the saddle.
We clipped them ONLY if their work load warrented it. They wore simple single jointed snaffle bridles and a cavesson or drop noseband. No breastplates and only a few with a martingale. We rarely ever saw a head shaker.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
It's ok for you to call a whole group of people cruel , but it's not ok for anyone to comment on the fact you can't be bothered to train your horse to accept stabling happily so that you may be in the position to save her life should she say be kicked and suffer a serious injury.
That as a position lacks the the necessary balance to be taken seriously.
I have bought many horses over the years who dislike the stable I consider it my duty to train to get over this for exactly this reason , I can think of a lovely mare I had who arrived a demon in the stable climbing over the door barging sweating tearing round it took me time but she got better because while not perfect when it happened she had the misfortune to break her hind leg in the field she had surgery was boxed rested for four months and while it was hard work to keep her happy I did and she made a full recovery.
So as you feel it's ok to brand a group of people you don't know cruel and while I never stable 24/7 myself I can say I think your approach is not acceptable IMO.
be positive
Well-Known Member
All the horses in my yard will stay in happily for a day, waiting for farrier, vet, going to a competition later in the day etc, they do not mind having a day in due to bad weather although go out most days, some are still out 24/7.
It is my job to enable them to be content in the stable, not get stressed at any change of routine, if they need box rest for a period of time they will get that rest, I could not imagine contemplating pts due to a minor injury that needed a month or two to recover.
I currently have a tb in on rest, he has done over 3 months with 2 weeks left, he will go out 24/7 over winter and hopefully lead a useful life in the future, he is only 8 should he have been shot, he certainly could not have recovered with turn out he had a very severe tendon injury and going into a field would have been cruel, he would have been in pain and moving around would have made the damage worse.
horsesatemymoney
Well-Known Member
it is ok saying you'd have your much loved horse pts rather than rest but if that happened and you faced losing her I bet you'd do anything to keep her.
wench
Well-Known Member
You prefer it but does your horse?
I have met horses that prefer to be stabled but not many, and none that like stables 24/7, although I'm guessing there's an exception to every rule, and I'm guessing this is due to conditioning from youth, but I'm no expert.
I'm not questioning your methods but usually no winter turnout is for owner convenience than what the horse wants, it's much easier to clean, ride and look after horses when you don't have to wipe a layer of mud of when you bring them in
I would think it's worse for a horse's health to be stood up to it's knees in mud 24/7 than correctly managed 24/7 stabling, with appropriate exercise, and oppertunity to stretch legs in school/walker/in-hand grazing.
TigerTail
Well-Known Member
Unless theyre being exercised roughly 22 hours a day, preferably whilslt being able to graze then no its not worse for a horse to be in mud
Theyre designed to move and graze 24.7 not stand still. Theyre also a herd animal so think about their mental welfare of being confined to solitary stabling with no one to guard them if they want to sleep properly rather than catnap.wench
Well-Known Member
So what about when it gets bad mud fever on all it's legs because its constantly stuck in mud; it cannot move about very well, as the mud is too deep; tendons/muscles strained due to deep mud; cuts and infections not identified due to legs caked in mud, and owner not constantly wanting to wash the mud off...
Patchworkpony
Well-Known Member
No - it's cruel and leads to bad habits such as crib biting. It's just the same as a prison sentence for a human being!
LaurenBay
Well-Known Member
Like I said you do not know my Horse. She was wild until 2 and half, then handled and backed, but continued to live out until she was 5. I then got her and introduced the stable to her. She also has mild COPD and a stifle problem. So yes if my Horse ever required boxrest I would PTS. Not only would I have one very unhappy Horse, I would aslo have one that would be lame behind and coughing her guts up. Even if it wasn't for her other isuues, I still wouldn't put her through it. Whilst she accepts the stable now (she comes in overnight) she could not handle boxrest and is so much happier being out. I think PTS would be the kindest thing for her.
kirstykate
Well-Known Member
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Mild COPD can be managed , with clean stables dust control dust free bedding and medication if necessary , stifles and other joints can be mobilised during box rest by physios and body workers as long as the horse is wieght bearing . I have no issue with you calling a halt to your horses life its your property but I do have an issue that you brand a whole group of people whose circunmtances you don't know as cruel while applyinga different standard to how people much judge you .
LaurenBay
Well-Known Member
COPD could be managed yes, but also could worsen with 24/7 stabling.
Oh by all means I don't have a problem with people keeping their Horses in if they are on boxrest (if they could handle it), or the odd day in if the weather is horrendos. I do think its cruel to stable a healthy Horse though 24/7.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Well that's a bit more balanced than your original statement .
FWIW even if the weather is horrendous my horses never ever stay in the stable all day I consider it an unacceptable way to manage them the only weather event that might make me consider keeping them in is an extreme weather event type wind when it would dangerous to expect people to be out and about handling them.
I would take a worsening of mild COPD as a price worth paying for being alive and cannot conceive of killing a horse because it might get worse I would just medicate the horse from the start.
Spyda
Well-Known Member
And what's wrong with that!?
Speaking as one with four sons (the two eldest being teenagers of 14 and 15) what's wrong with keeping them locked in their bedrooms????!!!
I have to prise mine out of their rooms with cattle prods in the morning
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
And what's wrong with that!?
Speaking as one with four sons (the two eldest being teenagers of 14 and 15) what's wrong with keeping them locked in their bedrooms????!!!
AH the old cattle prod method , the old methods are always the best, starvation also works but is slow.
Spyda
Well-Known Member
LaurenBay
Well-Known Member
In my first post I did say
"No. I think unless the Horse is injured then it is cruel to keep them in"
I'm the same with weather, mine goes out no matter what.
I could accept the COPD getting worse, if thats the only thing that would get worse. But the problem I have would be the stifle (I have already paid out huge ammounts for steriod injections and pysio treatments, that the insurance company no longer cover) she would be lame. So yes whilst fixing 1 problem I would be making another much worse. Not only that but she would need to be kept under sedation pretty much throuout the whole thing. Otherwise she would be danger to herself and me. Don't get me wrong, It would be a horrible decision to make. If it were a minor injury and the vet said 1 week boxrest with 100% recovery outcome I would seriously consider it. But any longer then a month I would be saying my goodbyes as I just couldn't do that to her. Some Horses are just outside Horses.
skint1
Well-Known Member
Being stabled 24/7 is not a life I would want for mine, but if I had no option (and some people don't) I would do my best to make it good for them. I ride my loan horse 4-5 times a week, only hacking as we're both old ladies and I think schooling is hard on her joints, but I am not sure I could get her enough exercise if she was in 24/7. My daughter's TB definitely wouldn't get enough exercise, both she and his loaner work long hours, he is currently only ridden 2-3 times per week. Both horses have arthritis and both get filled legs that go down once they're out. I would also worry about colic and stuff like that, but as I said, I am lucky to have a choice, not everyone does.
Annette4
Well-Known Member
It totally depends on the set up. I've known many prefectly happy in 24/7 with a stable and 'outside stable' both huge. With being able to socialise and adlib hay and daily work I see no problem at all. In a normal 12 x 12 stable....not so much.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Worse, however neither being situations I would choose or be happy with for anything other than very short term.
If I wasn't able to provide adequate grazing I wouldn't have horses. If I lived somewhere with no adequate grazing and only 24/7 stabling I would rather not have my own.
I see no way in which a healthy horse can exhibit natural herd behaviour when stabled 24/7.
With mine...
Short term box rest fine (Up to a handful of months - bar oldies who I wouldn't subject it to now), emergency stabling fine. Long term (months-years), mine would be pts and I can say that if it ever comes to it my decision will always be that and I wouldn't change my mind as ultimately I would only be changing my mind for my interest and not my horses.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
If I didn't have enough turnout to enable some daily turnout in the winter, I would sort out an allweather turnout pen/corral. Having horses stood in their boxes 24/7 (apart from exercise) still doesn't sit right with me.
The pen/corral would be a solution because you could have a hay feeder and water trough in it. You could turn the horses out in it in small groups/pairs depending on the pen/corral size etc...
This would mean that the horses are not standing in a bog, but they still have time with their mates for social interaction and a canter round, roll, play or just stuff themselves with the hay if they want.
I don't have a problem with keeping youngsters loose in large barns over winter and this could also be done with older horses.
When it comes down to it, it's the isolation (even when they can see lots of other horses) and confinement (except for exercise) that I don't like about 24/7 stabling. There are ways around the problem. I believe that Wagtails yard has an allweather turnout pen and from her posts it seems to work very well.
The pen/corral would be a solution because you could have a hay feeder and water trough in it. You could turn the horses out in it in small groups/pairs depending on the pen/corral size etc...
This would mean that the horses are not standing in a bog, but they still have time with their mates for social interaction and a canter round, roll, play or just stuff themselves with the hay if they want.
I don't have a problem with keeping youngsters loose in large barns over winter and this could also be done with older horses.
When it comes down to it, it's the isolation (even when they can see lots of other horses) and confinement (except for exercise) that I don't like about 24/7 stabling. There are ways around the problem. I believe that Wagtails yard has an allweather turnout pen and from her posts it seems to work very well.